What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')???

chriswallace85 · 02-22-2012, 12:24 PM

I've looked at a few videos of Billy playing this now and I think this is the best one showing off a little trick he pulls off in the riff....

ZZ Top Gimme all your Lovin' - YouTube

During the intro riff where he strikes a note that would usually be the bend to the C in the studio version, but it seems to ring out an octave higher than a C at the 5th fret. Any ideas?

P.S. Cheers for the help on the other threads I posted on here round Christmas time - I didn't want to needlessly bump them but the replies were appreciated.

Lampens · 02-22-2012, 12:40 PM

Looks like just a harmonic at the 5th fret. He's making it look fancy by hitting the string close to his fretting hand hovering over it. They always use a backing track with this song so while it looks like he's also doing some of the chords that might not entirely be the case. But it doesn't look entirely that way. can't really reproduce the sound like he gets by doing something like him.
I've seen him doing this trick more often. You can also fret just the c note at the 5th fret while doing some of the chords but hit the harmonic by hovering your index finger above the 17th on the g string but lightly plucking behind the hovering index and get the harmonic but now at the 17th while getting a c because it's fretted at the 5th also. essentially the 12th fret harmonic moved up. A trick I've also seen him use.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I just haven't got a ****ing clue.

jerrypilot · 02-23-2012, 03:34 AM

As above ; it's a false harmonic .

sliding tom · 02-23-2012, 03:37 AM

Probably a pinch harmonic. He does that all the time...

huw · 02-23-2012, 04:14 AM

Judging by the way that particular note sustains whilst the riff continues, I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the backing track is the culprit here, and that the gesture he does with his hand is a bit of showmanship to make it less obvious that it's not him.

Of course, it's possible that he's found a way to finger the riff so that he can keep one finger in place to hold that note, but it might not be the case.

If you look at about 2:26 you can see another possible backing track moment, where his hands don't seem to match a high note that ringsd out in a similar way.

No conclussions here, just possibilities.

JonR · 02-23-2012, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huw

Judging by the way that particular note sustains whilst the riff continues, I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the backing track is the culprit here,

BACKING TRACK?? You're telling me Z Z Top use backing tracks live??

You'll be telling me there's no Santa Claus next....

Personally, I'd say - IF there is no backing track - it could be an octave harmonic, although he's playing it in an odd way. Certain types of distortion make octave harmonics appear easily.
It could also be a double octave harmonic of the low C root, which would make more sense of his right hand move.

Then again, a few other things about the sound mean a backing track makes more sense...

snaredrum · 02-23-2012, 06:31 AM

yeah, it's just a parlour trick so the backing track is less obvious.

I still love 'em, backing tracks and all

sliding tom · 02-23-2012, 06:54 AM

There is no Santa Claus....

GitFiddle · 02-23-2012, 07:45 AM

Yeah, that note at 2:26 definitely shows the backing track. I can't think of any studio tracks off hand that only has a single guitar track. Just about every recording has two or more guitar tracks.

I've always been impressed at how big and full they still sound live with just one guitar. Even with a backing track or "gimmicks" he can still make most of the live material enjoyable.

huw · 02-23-2012, 07:48 AM

I think Santa actually auditioned for ZZ Top once...

Anyway, the backing track thing is a fairly "open secret" - not for the whole show, but those Eliminator era MTV hits (and some of the later tunes) feature prominent keyboard parts etc that are all there to be heard as part of the live show. (I don't have a problem with this BTW, I just think that the parts of the show that really are just the three of them live have a better fell to them).

huw · 02-23-2012, 08:09 AM

Billy Gibbons, er Santa, er one of them...

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 09:49 AM

I am lucky enough to have seen them 17 times now. Billy has always been an absolute master at filling space with an interesting wall of sound through a lot of hybrid picking, harmonics, and thumbing. One of the reasons that I have thought since the 70's that he is such an under-rated guitarist. As well, Dusty's thundering bass, and Frank's "sneaky" drums ( as the band apparently calls them) will fill up space like no other band I have ever seen. Just an absolute monster sound coming from Tres Amigos. They've even calmed it down a LOT in the last decade or so, but still have a huge sound.

That being said, they have definitely used backing tracks since around the Deguelo years for some things. It used to bother me, but it doesn't so much anymore. Particularly with Eliminator and Afterburner songs, you could tell they were using some backing; quite frankly because the songs need them. Legs in particular really needs it. I've seen Billy several times live do that note on "Gimme..." with a harmonic, and it was obvious that HE was doing it. I've seen this song done most of the time though with the backing track. Just listen in that video to the main riff. You have the main riff, but you can also hear another guitar doing the"chunk chunk....chunk chunk" if you know what I mean.

I like what theyhave been doing for the last several year's though. They have what looks like a huge DJ's table set up on the left of the stage that is manned by crew. It is kind of there in your face letting you know when there is background being done. By the way, check out "Brown Sugar" live on YouTube. That will give you a great idea of the sound and tone with just the three of them. He's playing a Tokai LP copy. Pure nasty tone right there from the Reverend.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X15-kYgpLwo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 10:37 AM

Also, just as an aside about that great ZZ sound and tone, check out "She's Just Killin Me" Live on YouTube. The one that is 3:38 long. It's from some tv show it appears, but great guitar vid for what Billy is about

AngryHatter · 02-23-2012, 10:58 AM

Milli Vanilli...

Ole'Lefty · 02-23-2012, 11:17 AM

This one deserves a "Hitler Discovers that ZZ Top use Backing Tracks." I am a bit ashamed that I laugh at those but I am a "Monty Python" humorist.

AngryHatter · 02-23-2012, 11:30 AM

Cream never used a backing track.
Jimi never used a backing track.

I'm sorry, but I think that's awful.

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 11:32 AM

River · 02-23-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

Cream never used a backing track.
Jimi never used a backing track.

I'm sorry, but I think that's awful.

I agree. Live performances should be adapted to work with the available instrumentation.

But ZZ Top has always been about bluster, smoke, and mirrors. I remember their '77 Kingdome performance well, and felt I was being had even back then. Their entire shtick is a put-on and an illusion. An enjoyable one, but that's what it is.

(Flame suit on.)

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 11:42 AM

No flaming, just laughing.

AngryHatter · 02-23-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokehouse4444

Three guys on stage but four or more people playing?
Fakery is just that.

In a studio setting it is one thing, but live?
Milli Vanilli, indeed.
If they portray themselves as entertainment fine, but to be considered a serious musical group? Can you have it both ways?

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

Three guys on stage but four or more people playing?
Fakery is just that.

In a studio setting it is one thing, but live?
Milli Vanilli, indeed.
If they portray themselves as entertainment fine, but to be considered a serious musical group? Can you have it both ways?

Really? You don't consider ZZTop a serious musical group because they play some backing tracks on a few songs? Did you even look at the vids? Is there any backing tracks on those? The point being that ZZ\Billy Gibbons makes huge sound with just the three of them. Can you be entertainment and a serious musical group at the same time? Uh, why yes, you can. Would most people out there consider RUSH a serious band? Good grief, get off your high-horse.

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huw

I think Santa actually auditioned for ZZ Top once...

Anyway, the backing track thing is a fairly "open secret" - not for the whole show, but those Eliminator era MTV hits (and some of the later tunes) feature prominent keyboard parts etc that are all there to be heard as part of the live show. (I don't have a problem with this BTW, I just think that the parts of the show that really are just the three of them live have a better fell to them).

Well said...

AngryHatter · 02-23-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokehouse4444

Really? You don't consider ZZTop a serious musical group because they play some backing tracks on a few songs? Did you even look at the vids? Is there any backing tracks on those? The point being that ZZ\Billy Gibbons makes huge sound with just the three of them. Can you be entertainment and a serious musical group at the same time? Uh, why yes, you can. Would most people out there consider RUSH a serious band? Good grief, get off your high-horse.

So I am on a high horse?

I happen to like the band. but you have decided that since I dislike fakery I somehow am being a snob?

I don't listen to Rush, either...sorry.

And then you decided to answer the query anyway - you believe that a band can be both. Cool.

smokehouse4444 · 02-23-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

So I am on a high horse?

yes

I happen to like the band. but you have decided that since I dislike fakery I somehow am being a snob?

No, I have decided the comparison to milli vanilli, and the assertion that having a backing track on a few era specific songs makes this a fake band is completely inane.

I don't listen to Rush, either...sorry.

Reallycould care less if you listen to Rush, I think you know the point, regardless.

And then you decided to answer the query anyway - you believe that a band can be both. Cool.

Yes, I most certainly think that you can be a "serious" band and still be entertaining. I feel for you, knowing that the only bands you consider serious, or real, are not entertaining. By the way, I am curious, what part of the clips that I embedded above strike anyone as fake?

Sorry OP, I just originally was giving some insight about it, didn't mean for this other junk.

AngryHatter · 02-23-2012, 02:31 PM

So would you feel bad if you paid $100 for a ticket to see the Beatles and Ringo came onstage and pressed the play button on a recorder?

I understand your point, I just do not agree. If you, as a band, can't play it, don't include it in the set list, or as other musicians do, hire another guitar player to fill the rhythm for you.

You seem to be upset when all I am doing is gauging reactions.
I have been thinking - very seriously of doing a persona act.
Blind Melon Chitlin sort of act.
Entertain and play a bit.

You Tube

jon123 · 02-23-2012, 02:37 PM

I purchased "Tejas", what I think is there best work by far years ago. My album had worn out and I had thrown it away. They went and added backing tracks to all of it. A new drum track or electronic drums from the sound of it. You can follow the link below for the album at Amazon.com. Out of 49 reviews it has 16 one star reviews. That along with my impression of them live caused me to write them off. They gave that same treatment to a lot of there other CDs. It has been well discussed on the internet in the past.

Amazon

Don't they have plenty of money to hire musicians? I'm sure many would do the job for free!

I don't know if I would call it fakery, it's so obvious.

snaredrum · 02-23-2012, 02:54 PM

rule #23 clearly applies here - Billy Gibbons can do whatever he wants, no comebacks.

Mookakian · 02-23-2012, 03:55 PM

His beard rests on the strings and introduces a touch of harmonic detail me thinks

River · 02-23-2012, 04:00 PM

One of the great marketing coups of our time. It would be a laughingstock if the music weren't so damned good. But if you don't know you're being played right along with the beards, cowboy hats, chambered-neck guitars and .07 strings, well...

AngryHatter · 02-23-2012, 04:04 PM

Maybe I just feel used.

02-22-2012, 12:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lampens Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 5,482 Thanks: 127 Thanked 110 Times in 47 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Looks like just a harmonic at the 5th fret. He's making it look fancy by hitting the string close to his fretting hand hovering over it. They always use a backing track with this song so while it looks like he's also doing some of the chords that might not entirely be the case. But it doesn't look entirely that way. can't really reproduce the sound like he gets by doing something like him. I've seen him doing this trick more often. You can also fret just the c note at the 5th fret while doing some of the chords but hit the harmonic by hovering your index finger above the 17th on the g string but lightly plucking behind the hovering index and get the harmonic but now at the 17th while getting a c because it's fretted at the 5th also. essentially the 12th fret harmonic moved up. A trick I've also seen him use. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I just haven't got a ***ing clue. huw likes this. __________________ "Go ahead and play The Blues if it'll make you happy". Homer J. Simpson*

02-23-2012, 03:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
jerrypilot Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Uk South Coast Posts: 217 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? As above ; it's a false harmonic .

02-23-2012, 03:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
sliding tom Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 1,337 Thanks: 29 Thanked 180 Times in 18 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Probably a pinch harmonic. He does that all the time... __________________ Just because you're bending strings doesn't mean you're playing Blues... The MLP-blues-guitar-course: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/guit...ar-course.html The accompanying-Q&A thread-MLP-blues-guitar-course http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/guit...ar-course.html

02-23-2012, 04:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
huw V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Macclesfield, on the edge of the Peak District Posts: 2,143 Thanks: 12 Thanked 49 Times in 5 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Judging by the way that particular note sustains whilst the riff continues, I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the backing track is the culprit here, and that the gesture he does with his hand is a bit of showmanship to make it less obvious that it's not him. Of course, it's possible that he's found a way to finger the riff so that he can keep one finger in place to hold that note, but it might not be the case. If you look at about 2:26 you can see another possible backing track moment, where his hands don't seem to match a high note that ringsd out in a similar way. No conclussions here, just possibilities. b-squared and GitFiddle like this. __________________ A chord change is not a key change. It's just a chord change.

02-23-2012, 06:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
snaredrum V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 16,133 Thanks: 152 Thanked 141 Times in 50 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? yeah, it's just a parlour trick so the backing track is less obvious. I still love 'em, backing tracks and all __________________ www.facebook.com/themadelinerust

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02-23-2012, 06:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
sliding tom Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 1,337 Thanks: 29 Thanked 180 Times in 18 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? There is no Santa Claus.... __________________ Just because you're bending strings doesn't mean you're playing Blues... The MLP-blues-guitar-course: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/guit...ar-course.html The accompanying-Q&A thread-MLP-blues-guitar-course http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/guit...ar-course.html

02-23-2012, 07:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
GitFiddle Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,999 Thanks: 653 Thanked 142 Times in 39 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Yeah, that note at 2:26 definitely shows the backing track. I can't think of any studio tracks off hand that only has a single guitar track. Just about every recording has two or more guitar tracks. I've always been impressed at how big and full they still sound live with just one guitar. Even with a backing track or "gimmicks" he can still make most of the live material enjoyable.

02-23-2012, 07:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
huw V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Macclesfield, on the edge of the Peak District Posts: 2,143 Thanks: 12 Thanked 49 Times in 5 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? I think Santa actually auditioned for ZZ Top once... Anyway, the backing track thing is a fairly "open secret" - not for the whole show, but those Eliminator era MTV hits (and some of the later tunes) feature prominent keyboard parts etc that are all there to be heard as part of the live show. (I don't have a problem with this BTW, I just think that the parts of the show that really are just the three of them live have a better fell to them). AngryHatter and android13 like this. __________________ A chord change is not a key change. It's just a chord change.

02-23-2012, 08:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
huw V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Macclesfield, on the edge of the Peak District Posts: 2,143 Thanks: 12 Thanked 49 Times in 5 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Billy Gibbons, er Santa, er one of them... __________________ A chord change is not a key change. It's just a chord change.

02-23-2012, 09:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
smokehouse4444 Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 36 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? I am lucky enough to have seen them 17 times now. Billy has always been an absolute master at filling space with an interesting wall of sound through a lot of hybrid picking, harmonics, and thumbing. One of the reasons that I have thought since the 70's that he is such an under-rated guitarist. As well, Dusty's thundering bass, and Frank's "sneaky" drums ( as the band apparently calls them) will fill up space like no other band I have ever seen. Just an absolute monster sound coming from Tres Amigos. They've even calmed it down a LOT in the last decade or so, but still have a huge sound. That being said, they have definitely used backing tracks since around the Deguelo years for some things. It used to bother me, but it doesn't so much anymore. Particularly with Eliminator and Afterburner songs, you could tell they were using some backing; quite frankly because the songs need them. Legs in particular really needs it. I've seen Billy several times live do that note on "Gimme..." with a harmonic, and it was obvious that HE was doing it. I've seen this song done most of the time though with the backing track. Just listen in that video to the main riff. You have the main riff, but you can also hear another guitar doing the"chunk chunk....chunk chunk" if you know what I mean. I like what theyhave been doing for the last several year's though. They have what looks like a huge DJ's table set up on the left of the stage that is manned by crew. It is kind of there in your face letting you know when there is background being done. By the way, check out "Brown Sugar" live on YouTube. That will give you a great idea of the sound and tone with just the three of them. He's playing a Tokai LP copy. Pure nasty tone right there from the Reverend. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X15-kYgpLwo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> __________________ I don't play real technical. I just play like I'm......breaking out of jail. - Stevie Ray Vaughan Last edited by smokehouse4444; 02-23-2012 at 11:28 AM.

02-23-2012, 10:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
smokehouse4444 Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 36 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Also, just as an aside about that great ZZ sound and tone, check out "She's Just Killin Me" Live on YouTube. The one that is 3:38 long. It's from some tv show it appears, but great guitar vid for what Billy is about __________________ I don't play real technical. I just play like I'm......breaking out of jail. - Stevie Ray Vaughan

02-23-2012, 10:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
AngryHatter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 12,995 Thanks: 35 Thanked 106 Times in 43 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Milli Vanilli... River likes this.

02-23-2012, 11:17 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,208 Thanks: 131 Thanked 176 Times in 45 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? This one deserves a "Hitler Discovers that ZZ Top use Backing Tracks." I am a bit ashamed that I laugh at those but I am a "Monty Python" humorist.

02-23-2012, 11:30 AM	#16 (permalink)
AngryHatter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 12,995 Thanks: 35 Thanked 106 Times in 43 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Cream never used a backing track. Jimi never used a backing track. I'm sorry, but I think that's awful. River likes this.

02-23-2012, 11:32 AM	#17 (permalink)
smokehouse4444 Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 36 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? <iframe width="420" height="315" src="ZZ top She Just Killing Me - YouTube" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Milli Vanilli my ass! __________________ I don't play real technical. I just play like I'm......breaking out of jail. - Stevie Ray Vaughan

02-23-2012, 11:42 AM	#19 (permalink)
smokehouse4444 Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 36 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? No flaming, just laughing. __________________ I don't play real technical. I just play like I'm......breaking out of jail. - Stevie Ray Vaughan

02-23-2012, 02:37 PM	#26 (permalink)
jon123 Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? I purchased "Tejas", what I think is there best work by far years ago. My album had worn out and I had thrown it away. They went and added backing tracks to all of it. A new drum track or electronic drums from the sound of it. You can follow the link below for the album at Amazon.com. Out of 49 reviews it has 16 one star reviews. That along with my impression of them live caused me to write them off. They gave that same treatment to a lot of there other CDs. It has been well discussed on the internet in the past. Amazon Amazon Don't they have plenty of money to hire musicians? I'm sure many would do the job for free! I don't know if I would call it fakery, it's so obvious. Last edited by jon123; 02-23-2012 at 03:49 PM.

02-23-2012, 02:54 PM	#27 (permalink)
snaredrum V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 16,133 Thanks: 152 Thanked 141 Times in 50 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? rule #23 clearly applies here - Billy Gibbons can do whatever he wants, no comebacks. Lampens and Mookakian like this. __________________ www.facebook.com/themadelinerust

02-23-2012, 03:55 PM	#28 (permalink)
Mookakian Tim Mason Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 4,010 Thanks: 209 Thanked 107 Times in 42 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? His beard rests on the strings and introduces a touch of harmonic detail me thinks huw likes this. __________________ Quote: Roman Rist on "natural highs" whilst playing It's not just endorphins you feel... No, you are connecting with the spiritual world.............you're just not sure exactly what it is.... But you are in the spirit world, that's what Hendrix was trying to tell us.

02-23-2012, 04:00 PM	#29 (permalink)
River Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rural Colorado, USA Posts: 54,481 Thanks: 744 Thanked 847 Times in 77 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? One of the great marketing coups of our time. It would be a laughingstock if the music weren't so damned good. But if you don't know you're being played right along with the beards, cowboy hats, chambered-neck guitars and .07 strings, well... snaredrum and AngryHatter like this. __________________ River Bottom Blues Band - Music Home of the River Bottom Blues Band

02-23-2012, 04:04 PM	#30 (permalink)
AngryHatter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 12,995 Thanks: 35 Thanked 106 Times in 43 Posts	Re: What is Billy Doing here (Gimme All Your Lovin')??? Maybe I just feel used.

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