MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method

Ole'Lefty · 02-12-2012, 10:36 AM

I have been playing at guitar since 1965. But, and it is a big but, I do not understand music theory at all. Music and mathematics are a shared theoretical scope and I have struggled with math all of my life. The other side of my brain has excelled by most people's standards. But, my playing of the guitar has been "look and copy" on the fretboard. My right hand is a very competent fingerstyle. And, I can be quite accurate with a flatpick.

Lawyers are taught to count in a certain way, and that mind-set means that I struggled to figure out that for I, IV, V counts the "base" chord(let alone ignoring sharps and flats). In counting days for deadlines we do not count the first but do count the last.

I did click on the ad once but that subjected me to internet bombardment. In one of the promos, the ad does discuss something that is a problem for me-I have never learned the "cheater" -so called Power chords--always classical barre`. Unfortunately I now have a very heavy left hand. I am a lefty who has always played righty.

Can anyone give me some idea of how this system is different from the usual boxes and variations of practicing the pentatonic scales?

PS--I have already spent several hundred precious dollars on "steviesnacks.com" and "guitarjamz.com"--should I just save up and pay for some live "music lessons?" My brother and a nephew are both gifted guitarists-brother and his wife provided a nice life and good education to their kids (she a nurse, he a pro bluesman) and nephew graduated from Berklee with High Honors in Guitar. However, neither of them would do any serious work on their instruments, let alone build.

SteveGangi · 02-12-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

... I have never learned the "cheater" -so called Power chords--always classical barre ...

To simplify - a LOT - power chords are just the lowest two or three notes of a chord. Imagine a standard barre A chord where you barre across the fifth fret. Now, strum only the lowest three notes. That in effect is an A "power chord". This is how the "metal guys" get that dark grunting "chug chug" sound. They've basically "removed" the high notes of the chord. This is an oversimplification, but that is the basic idea of it.

knievel · 02-12-2012, 10:01 PM

The other thing about the "power chord" is that it contains only the root, the 5th, and an octave of the root...so...it's neither a major or minor chord. Or both.

Nay · 02-13-2012, 09:52 AM

Classic powerchord - I & V played together. So low E string 3rd fret and A string 5th fret would be a G. Lot of people then throw in the octave on the D string (5th fret again) to make a simple 2 or 3 string chord. Its in rock music everywhere.

I've been playing bass for over 10 years now and on and off with the guitar. Picked up the guitar properly about a year and a half ago.

I went to my first ever lesson last week and there is still so much for me to learn. I'm there to get some tuition on the roots of the music I play (lots of rock) and much of it is blues inspired, which I have little knowledge of. So I'm there for a more theoretical approach to my learning and it seems like its gonna be great.

Just try a teacher out for a lesson, see if they will work for you and go through to basics of theory. I mean, what I picked up in one lesson would have never occurred to me.

Ole'Lefty · 02-13-2012, 01:25 PM

Thanks for responses. Maybe, I should just set the goal of being a passable rhythm guitar-chords, power and otherwise and some single string connectors. (Put aside Bob Weir, the most effective lead-rhythm guitarist out there.)

If I could play EC's lead in the first album "Crossroads"-Disraeli Gears" I could die happy.(well, kind of-). But what I honestly want is to work effectively to become a decent Chicago Blues player. Not great, maybe barely passable, but I don't have that many years left to get there. I have good vibrato,pull on and off,choking[bending] "slides"(not steel slide). Maybe I could get there with gigging/jamming but with someone who explains too. I am not above buying another "course" but I don't want it to be my "third strike."--Need a period of tipped third strikes, maybe.<>

My nephew does some teaching and is expanding his Berklee degree to have state certification as an educator-he is in DC, so commuting would be hard for me!

LiveSimply · 02-13-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

Thanks for responses. Maybe, I should just set the goal of being a passable rhythm guitar-chords, power and otherwise and some single string connectors.......

Lefty, those seem like pretty manageable goals. Wouldn't the guitarjamz and steviesnacks lessons you purchased on DVD give you this type of foundation? Curious to know why those lessons haven't worked out for you as you had hoped. I've seen their services touted by members in other threads.

AngryHatter · 02-13-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

Thanks for responses. Maybe, I should just set the goal of being a passable rhythm guitar-chords, power and otherwise and some single string connectors. (Put aside Bob Weir, the most effective lead-rhythm guitarist out there.)

If I could play EC's lead in the first album "Crossroads"-Disraeli Gears" I could die happy.(well, kind of-). But what I honestly want is to work effectively to become a decent Chicago Blues player. Not great, maybe barely passable, but I don't have that many years left to get there. I have good vibrato,pull on and off,choking[bending] "slides"(not steel slide). Maybe I could get there with gigging/jamming but with someone who explains too. I am not above buying another "course" but I don't want it to be my "third strike."--Need a period of tipped third strikes, maybe.<>

My nephew does some teaching and is expanding his Berklee degree to have state certification as an educator-he is in DC, so commuting would be hard for me!

Maybe he could teach you via Skype/IRC/TeamSpeak ?

MorganPeline · 02-13-2012, 05:50 PM

Have you thought maybe that the 'way' you are practising is not effective? For example maybe you are trying to play to fast too soon? If you played more slowly and 'perfectly' without mistakes, you'll find that after a nights sleep (when your brain is 'fixing' what you have learned during the day) you will play much better. Also if you practise in 15 minute intervals, you will learn much more as the brain can not handle more than 15 minutes of learning at a time when it is learning something new. Rest a little after every 15 minute learning segment....

Always play slowly and play perfectly, that is how the brain learns to have perfect motor skills.....if you go to fast, to soon, all you are doing is teaching your brain and hands to play mistakes at a faster pace...

Why don't you ask your nephew about practising techniques? I'm sure his teachers at Berklee would have explained to him the best way to learn efficiently and effectively..I think it's not how old you are. I think maybe you are most likely practising inefficently....

These might help....

What Are The Principles?

The Guitar Principles Beginner's Package - $89.95 : The Guitar Principles Store

Amazon.com: Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within (9781562240035): Kenny Werner: Books

What Are The Principles?

LawDaddy · 02-13-2012, 06:02 PM

Hello there fellow lawyer!

Definitely take some live lessons, it's possible that you are making some rudimentary mistakes that can be easily corrected. Getting out to a good pro-run blues jam can help as well.

For me, the fretboard is a system of shapes that move around. This is especially true in blues. But it's something you have to explain in person.

PM me, maybe we can talk a little law and music theory.

Rango · 02-13-2012, 06:40 PM

I'm in a similar situation, with similar goals. I'm trying to get "passable" so I can play out with friend in some of the local bar bands...

And I have lessons from Steviesnacks, Marty, Griff and "Next level Guitar"... Here was the problem for me, if you didn't understand the ONE teacher, you were just out of luck. No way to ask a question!

I was DONE buying anymore DVD/online lessons...well mostly. I still bought all the "In Deep" stuff with Andy Aledort.

I did just find a new lesson site that had the missing piece for me ->Jamplay. Live instruction in addition to video lessons. Several times a week they have LIVE sessions with the instructors that do the videos. So you can jump on and ask questions. You can even put your video feed out for the instructor to watch... it's about what I imagine a lesson via skype would be like except only one student is live at a time. They also have several instructors that cover each area, so if one guy or gal isn't working for you, you can try another. I've only been on it a month but I'm happy so far!

Side note - I think Stevie Snacks, Marty and Griff all provide what the promise for the most part. "Next Level Guitar" was just disappointing on many levels, that's the only one I recommend people avoid.

MorganPeline · 02-13-2012, 09:43 PM

I recommend:

http://rnbacademy.com/main/

For learning the fingerboard and also how to play the blues and major scales all over!

Also:

Amazon.com: Fretboard Knowledge for the Contemporary Guitarist: Musical Instruments

Also for learning the fingerboard and also how to play the blues and major scales all over!

And how about these types of lessons?:

Instructors - Guitar Sherpa - TrueFire

No idea if they are good or not but if I had the cash I would try.....

Ole'Lefty · 02-14-2012, 08:51 AM

Thank you to all. I will make a careful decision after reviewing suggested lessons and the alternative approaches.

Nay · 02-15-2012, 01:43 PM

I'm currently working through a book called "Blues you can use".

Sure, like all books its got the information, the difference is the guitar teacher. He explains it to me and shows me straight away how its down.

I have seen and looked at guitar tution sites but in all fairness they just hands down do not compete with one-on-one tution for either a tutor or just another guitarist showing you some stuff.

If you want to have a look into Blues You Can Use book, PM me.

Ole'Lefty · 02-15-2012, 06:36 PM

The reviews for the book appear to be written for me. For instance, I can cleanly Travis/Delta fingerpick "Winding Boy" but don't know why I am going where I do. So complex and fast chord changes are managable; that song uses bends vibrato, pull on and off, slides all with the rolling bass. I ordered it from Amazon-it was priced well and the two companion books were so cheap they hooked me. For about $56 shipped it is a worthwhile investment. Maybe in a couple of months, Seasons I will have Blues Lesson DVD's for sale and recoup some of that.

Yes, thanks for the great lead.

Ole'Lefty · 02-23-2012, 12:02 PM

I received the two advanced books from the" Blues You Can Use" series before the first in the series arrived. I took and quick look and was dismayed when they had actual music notation and I was feeling like I was going to be at another dead end. But when BYCU arrived I opened it and it appears to be the method for me. I have not started yet, because I can't figure out what the tabbing says even though I can play the first "Em7" pentatonic exercise-the book comes with a CD. I have to figure it out mentally-how it fits with the formal measures and music notation above. That has been the problem all along-not understanding "why"--mimicing what I hear without understanding.

I do think that once that "little" hurdle is cleared I will progress. So, thanks to NAY and you folks for the tip.

rambler · 02-26-2012, 02:27 AM

email DARREN WATSON

He'll teach you what you want to know about chicago blues or delta blues. Skype lessons

If you want to learn chicago blues you really need to study the material (eg the music). Throw away Eric Clapton. As a Chicago blues player it's all about Robert Jr. Lockwood, Luther Tucker, The Myers brothers and anyone else who backed Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson II, Muddy, or Wolf. Jimmy Rogers is in there too. Hubert Sumlin for good measure obviously. Elmore James, Robert Nighthawk, Hound Dog Taylor, Muddy Waters and Earl Hooker for slide guitar

Ole'Lefty · 02-26-2012, 10:54 AM

I grew up in the 60's in Chicago. I was there for the roots with little policing regarding age in the clubs. I don't want to argue about EC. So,let's say Buddy Guy as a still living Chicago icon. That would still be a reach for the stars. I'll look into the options-thanks.

dearlpitts · 02-26-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rango

I'm in a similar situation, with similar goals. I'm trying to get "passable" so I can play out with friend in some of the local bar bands...

And I have lessons from Steviesnacks, Marty, Griff and "Next level Guitar"... Here was the problem for me, if you didn't understand the ONE teacher, you were just out of luck. No way to ask a question!

I was DONE buying anymore DVD/online lessons...well mostly. I still bought all the "In Deep" stuff with Andy Aledort.

I did just find a new lesson site that had the missing piece for me ->Jamplay. Live instruction in addition to video lessons. Several times a week they have LIVE sessions with the instructors that do the videos. So you can jump on and ask questions. You can even put your video feed out for the instructor to watch... it's about what I imagine a lesson via skype would be like except only one student is live at a time. They also have several instructors that cover each area, so if one guy or gal isn't working for you, you can try another. I've only been on it a month but I'm happy so far!

Side note - I think Stevie Snacks, Marty and Griff all provide what the promise for the most part. "Next Level Guitar" was just disappointing on many levels, that's the only one I recommend people avoid.

yep jam play really helped me-alot

rambler · 02-27-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

I grew up in the 60's in Chicago. I was there for the roots with little policing regarding age in the clubs. I don't want to argue about EC. So,let's say Buddy Guy as a still living Chicago icon. That would still be a reach for the stars. I'll look into the options-thanks.

If you grew up in the 60's you missed the roots of Chicago blues, sorry to tell you. The bulk of the most famous recordings where in the 50's from 52-58.

Buddy Guy these days isn't a shade of what he used to be. He's become a caricature of himself really. He put out some really good records of vanguard and chess, as well as with Junior Wells though.

There's a great guy on youtube who has some good lessons for beginner Chicago blues. Check out gassertrucks (gassertrucks's Channel - YouTube).

Like I said before, the best way to learn is to develop your ear and learn straight from the recordings. I think the age of the internet has done a lot of good for learning musicians, but it seems to have distanced us from the tried and true method of listening to music and learning directly from the source. Seems like everyone wants a middle-man these days. Nobody wants to do it for themselves and put the hard yards in, and will most likely, for this reason, struggle to really capture what Chicago blues is about

02-12-2012, 10:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 130 Thanked 175 Times in 44 Posts	MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method I have been playing at guitar since 1965. But, and it is a big but, I do not understand music theory at all. Music and mathematics are a shared theoretical scope and I have struggled with math all of my life. The other side of my brain has excelled by most people's standards. But, my playing of the guitar has been "look and copy" on the fretboard. My right hand is a very competent fingerstyle. And, I can be quite accurate with a flatpick. Lawyers are taught to count in a certain way, and that mind-set means that I struggled to figure out that for I, IV, V counts the "base" chord(let alone ignoring sharps and flats). In counting days for deadlines we do not count the first but do count the last. I did click on the ad once but that subjected me to internet bombardment. In one of the promos, the ad does discuss something that is a problem for me-I have never learned the "cheater" -so called Power chords--always classical barre`. Unfortunately I now have a very heavy left hand. I am a lefty who has always played righty. Can anyone give me some idea of how this system is different from the usual boxes and variations of practicing the pentatonic scales? PS--I have already spent several hundred precious dollars on "steviesnacks.com" and "guitarjamz.com"--should I just save up and pay for some live "music lessons?" My brother and a nephew are both gifted guitarists-brother and his wife provided a nice life and good education to their kids (she a nurse, he a pro bluesman) and nephew graduated from Berklee with High Honors in Guitar. However, neither of them would do any serious work on their instruments, let alone build. Last edited by Ole'Lefty; 02-12-2012 at 11:21 AM.

02-12-2012, 10:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
knievel Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 336 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method The other thing about the "power chord" is that it contains only the root, the 5th, and an octave of the root...so...it's neither a major or minor chord. Or both. __________________ '07 Classic Antique (honeyburst)->cord->JCM800

02-13-2012, 09:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Nay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Jersey - The original one. Posts: 425 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method Classic powerchord - I & V played together. So low E string 3rd fret and A string 5th fret would be a G. Lot of people then throw in the octave on the D string (5th fret again) to make a simple 2 or 3 string chord. Its in rock music everywhere. I've been playing bass for over 10 years now and on and off with the guitar. Picked up the guitar properly about a year and a half ago. I went to my first ever lesson last week and there is still so much for me to learn. I'm there to get some tuition on the roots of the music I play (lots of rock) and much of it is blues inspired, which I have little knowledge of. So I'm there for a more theoretical approach to my learning and it seems like its gonna be great. Just try a teacher out for a lesson, see if they will work for you and go through to basics of theory. I mean, what I picked up in one lesson would have never occurred to me.

02-13-2012, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 130 Thanked 175 Times in 44 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method Thanks for responses. Maybe, I should just set the goal of being a passable rhythm guitar-chords, power and otherwise and some single string connectors. (Put aside Bob Weir, the most effective lead-rhythm guitarist out there.) If I could play EC's lead in the first album "Crossroads"-Disraeli Gears" I could die happy.(well, kind of-). But what I honestly want is to work effectively to become a decent Chicago Blues player. Not great, maybe barely passable, but I don't have that many years left to get there. I have good vibrato,pull on and off,choking[bending] "slides"(not steel slide). Maybe I could get there with gigging/jamming but with someone who explains too. I am not above buying another "course" but I don't want it to be my "third strike."--Need a period of tipped third strikes, maybe.<> My nephew does some teaching and is expanding his Berklee degree to have state certification as an educator-he is in DC, so commuting would be hard for me!

02-13-2012, 05:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
MorganPeline Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 324 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method Have you thought maybe that the 'way' you are practising is not effective? For example maybe you are trying to play to fast too soon? If you played more slowly and 'perfectly' without mistakes, you'll find that after a nights sleep (when your brain is 'fixing' what you have learned during the day) you will play much better. Also if you practise in 15 minute intervals, you will learn much more as the brain can not handle more than 15 minutes of learning at a time when it is learning something new. Rest a little after every 15 minute learning segment.... Always play slowly and play perfectly, that is how the brain learns to have perfect motor skills.....if you go to fast, to soon, all you are doing is teaching your brain and hands to play mistakes at a faster pace... Why don't you ask your nephew about practising techniques? I'm sure his teachers at Berklee would have explained to him the best way to learn efficiently and effectively..I think it's not how old you are. I think maybe you are most likely practising inefficently.... These might help.... What Are The Principles? The Guitar Principles Beginner's Package - $89.95 : The Guitar Principles Store Amazon.com: Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within (9781562240035): Kenny Werner: Books Amazon.com: Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within (9781562240035): Kenny Werner: Books What Are The Principles? babatube likes this.

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02-13-2012, 06:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
LawDaddy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 594 Thanks: 3 Thanked 23 Times in 8 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method Hello there fellow lawyer! Definitely take some live lessons, it's possible that you are making some rudimentary mistakes that can be easily corrected. Getting out to a good pro-run blues jam can help as well. For me, the fretboard is a system of shapes that move around. This is especially true in blues. But it's something you have to explain in person. PM me, maybe we can talk a little law and music theory. SteveGangi likes this.

02-13-2012, 06:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rango Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 171 Thanks: 3 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method I'm in a similar situation, with similar goals. I'm trying to get "passable" so I can play out with friend in some of the local bar bands... And I have lessons from Steviesnacks, Marty, Griff and "Next level Guitar"... Here was the problem for me, if you didn't understand the ONE teacher, you were just out of luck. No way to ask a question! I was DONE buying anymore DVD/online lessons...well mostly. I still bought all the "In Deep" stuff with Andy Aledort. I did just find a new lesson site that had the missing piece for me ->Jamplay. Live instruction in addition to video lessons. Several times a week they have LIVE sessions with the instructors that do the videos. So you can jump on and ask questions. You can even put your video feed out for the instructor to watch... it's about what I imagine a lesson via skype would be like except only one student is live at a time. They also have several instructors that cover each area, so if one guy or gal isn't working for you, you can try another. I've only been on it a month but I'm happy so far! Side note - I think Stevie Snacks, Marty and Griff all provide what the promise for the most part. "Next Level Guitar" was just disappointing on many levels, that's the only one I recommend people avoid. Last edited by Rango; 02-14-2012 at 12:06 AM.

02-13-2012, 09:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
MorganPeline Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 324 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method I recommend: http://rnbacademy.com/main/ For learning the fingerboard and also how to play the blues and major scales all over! Also: Amazon.com: Fretboard Knowledge for the Contemporary Guitarist: Musical Instruments Amazon.com: Fretboard Knowledge for the Contemporary Guitarist: Musical Instruments Also for learning the fingerboard and also how to play the blues and major scales all over! And how about these types of lessons?: Instructors - Guitar Sherpa - TrueFire No idea if they are good or not but if I had the cash I would try.....

02-14-2012, 08:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 130 Thanked 175 Times in 44 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method Thank you to all. I will make a careful decision after reviewing suggested lessons and the alternative approaches.

02-15-2012, 01:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Jersey - The original one. Posts: 425 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method I'm currently working through a book called "Blues you can use". Sure, like all books its got the information, the difference is the guitar teacher. He explains it to me and shows me straight away how its down. I have seen and looked at guitar tution sites but in all fairness they just hands down do not compete with one-on-one tution for either a tutor or just another guitarist showing you some stuff. If you want to have a look into Blues You Can Use book, PM me.

02-15-2012, 06:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 130 Thanked 175 Times in 44 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method The reviews for the book appear to be written for me. For instance, I can cleanly Travis/Delta fingerpick "Winding Boy" but don't know why I am going where I do. So complex and fast chord changes are managable; that song uses bends vibrato, pull on and off, slides all with the rolling bass. I ordered it from Amazon-it was priced well and the two companion books were so cheap they hooked me. For about $56 shipped it is a worthwhile investment. Maybe in a couple of months, Seasons I will have Blues Lesson DVD's for sale and recoup some of that. Yes, thanks for the great lead.

02-23-2012, 12:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 130 Thanked 175 Times in 44 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method I received the two advanced books from the" Blues You Can Use" series before the first in the series arrived. I took and quick look and was dismayed when they had actual music notation and I was feeling like I was going to be at another dead end. But when BYCU arrived I opened it and it appears to be the method for me. I have not started yet, because I can't figure out what the tabbing says even though I can play the first "Em7" pentatonic exercise-the book comes with a CD. I have to figure it out mentally-how it fits with the formal measures and music notation above. That has been the problem all along-not understanding "why"--mimicing what I hear without understanding. I do think that once that "little" hurdle is cleared I will progress. So, thanks to NAY and you folks for the tip.

02-26-2012, 02:27 AM	#16 (permalink)
rambler Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 230 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method email DARREN WATSON He'll teach you what you want to know about chicago blues or delta blues. Skype lessons If you want to learn chicago blues you really need to study the material (eg the music). Throw away Eric Clapton. As a Chicago blues player it's all about Robert Jr. Lockwood, Luther Tucker, The Myers brothers and anyone else who backed Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson II, Muddy, or Wolf. Jimmy Rogers is in there too. Hubert Sumlin for good measure obviously. Elmore James, Robert Nighthawk, Hound Dog Taylor, Muddy Waters and Earl Hooker for slide guitar

02-26-2012, 10:54 AM	#17 (permalink)
Ole'Lefty Bartlett Retrospec Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: davenport, iowa, USA Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 130 Thanked 175 Times in 44 Posts	Re: MLP--"Master the Blues" AD-Method I grew up in the 60's in Chicago. I was there for the roots with little policing regarding age in the clubs. I don't want to argue about EC. So,let's say Buddy Guy as a still living Chicago icon. That would still be a reach for the stars. I'll look into the options-thanks.

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