Improvisation

[DolmenRage]

Improvising is a giant part of a guitarist... and I'm not very proud to admit that I... don't know how to do it.
I really don't know a lot of theory, just the basics, since the music school I attended didn't really cared to teach me theory... nor did I cared for it at the time... now I know how important this stuff really is.
A couple months ago I had the opportunity to play at my sisters wedding, I played this Santana song, but, due to the time, I couldn't learn the whole song note to note, missing a big part of the solo. So I just went on my Guitar Pro, learned a few parts of the solo here and there and then practiced them, trying to "connect" each part through scales or something improvised... boy was it hard.
The show didn't go so bad because of the previous practice I had... but I realized that I NEED to learn some theory and the basics of improvisation.

[tarddoggy]

jammin' with other people taught me how.My 2cents

[VictorLazarus]

Learn a few scales (I suggest pentatonics... well I always do) and use them in key with the rhythm.

Eg. easy minor pentatonic in A

e/:---------------------------------5--8----------
B/:---------------------------5--8----------------
G/:--------------------5--7-----------------------
D/:--------------5--7-----------------------------
A/:--------5--7-----------------------------------
E/:--5--8-----------------------------------------

easy minor pentatonic in E

e/:-----------------------------------------------12--15---
B/:--------------------------------------12--15------------
G/:-----------------------------12--14---------------------
D/:--------------------12--14------------------------------
A/:-----------12--14---------------------------------------
E/:--12--15------------------------------------------------

And so on; learn the notes on the fretboard to help u know where to go from. (u don't need to know all of them, just a few good places to put stuff to)

Looking at the keys of a keyboard will help u figure out the notes on the fretboard. From the low E they are:

0 1 2 3 4 5
E F F# G G# A

and so on; remember F# is also Gb - I just mostly call em sharps cos its confusing overwise.

MVL.

[st.bede]

pentatonics are very powerfull...but to utilize thier flexibilty it helps to know theroy....jamming with people is a good idea but IMHO try to take risks when jamming (sometimes I fall hard but, I always learn something)...that way you will discover certian approches you like

[b-squared]

I like playing the pentatonics, and have of late been using the different positions kind of like Eric Johnson.

I try and improv some every time I play, and like one of the greats said (can't remember who):

"If you hit a bad note, hit it again...then your playing jazz!"

Also--read Fripp's quote in my signature. Playing with others is a great way to learn; I always strive to play with someone a LOT better than me (whether guitar or keyboard)--forces me to grow.

BB

[axslinger]

My guitar teacher has made some key points with me. One being that knowledge and skill are not the same thing. You can have all the knowledge (theory) in the world, but that doesn't give you the skill to play well. His point: Nothing replaces practice, practice and more practice. (FYI, I'm 47 and have been playing off and on for 25+ years and only 3 months ago decided I wanted to get past the same stage).

Another point he made; if you can't make the the pentatonic scale sound good in the #3 position (5-8, 5-7, 5-7, 5-7, 5-8, 5-8), then it won't sound good in any other position because they're the same notes. He will have me improvise just on the 3rd and 4th strings, so all I have are 5 notes if you count a bend on the 3rd string.

Also, when I practice, besides the regular exercises and scales, I try to write a new lick to a jam track I have. But, I write the lick in my head, then I find it on the neck. I'll start the song and sort of hum or sing what I think would be a fresh sounding run or lick. Then I find it on the fretboard. Once I find it, I tab it out so I don't forget it.

In all honesty, the best sounding licks I can play are licks that I wrote that way. I have plenty of licks I got from tabs but they just don't have the same feel as one I wrote and refined myself.

I have also found that many times we avoid note combinations that don't feel natural. Such as notes on the same fret on adjacent strings. We just keep playing the combinations of notes that feel right, or feel natural. Try playing some unnatural note combinations until it feels natural, then you have something to add to your arsenal.

These are just a few tips of what I have picked up after repeating the same redundant licks for too many years. Having a good teacher really opens up the door to infinite discoveries.

Good Luck!

[ozone]

I've read an article that said,"Don't just learn scales, Learn from scales".
Try to understand the relationship between chords and scales. Once you've figured that out you'll never get lost again. Playing with other people is a very valuable exprience that can't be substitued. Although learning theory is not the end all be all, you'll never regret having learned it.
Oh by the way don't be too hard on yourself, playing Santana tunes is not an easy task.

[huw]

Originally Posted by axslinger

Another point he made; if you can't make the the pentatonic scale sound good in the #3 position (5-8, 5-7, 5-7, 5-7, 5-8, 5-8), then it won't sound good in any other position because they're the same notes.

I have to disagree with your teacher there - although the notes are the same, playing in a different position puts those notes under your fingers in a different way, which makes you play differently. Things that are easy & obvious in one position are difficult & uncomfortable in another.

For example: take a classic "widdley widdley" #3 position lick like bending the g string 7th fret up a tone, hitting the b string 5th fret, then coming down from the top e string 5th fret, to the b string 8th & bstring 5th (repeat). Every one knows that lick right? It's easy because it falls under the fingers in that position.

Now try to play it in any of the other positions (particularly #2) & you'll find it isn't so easy anymore because the notes aren't under the fingers in the sameway.

[tarddoggy]

I still gotta say,playin' with other people taught me.Aways back, all I knew was the pentatonic,then I noticed some of the "more experienced" players playing minor and major licks together.I learned the sweet and sour sounds can be mixed together,playing quietly with tiny little bends,dynamics....those little things that make YOUR style of playing....YOURS alone.To make a long story short,the best lessons I've had,has been playing at different jams,with alot of different players

[jomo]

I'm in a slump right now, just all the sudden. I thought about starting a thread about it but pffft, it's been done so many times, I just started reading threads that are kind of about that. Right now I am thinking of a way to record myself playing some rhythm so I can practice soloing, I bought a drum machine and that helps some but I need to hear that rhythm guitar so I know when I hit a bad note, or good note.

[tarddoggy]

Originally Posted by jomo

I'm in a slump right now, just all the sudden. I thought about starting a thread about it but pffft, it's been done so many times, I just started reading threads that are kind of about that. Right now I am thinking of a way to record myself playing some rhythm so I can practice soloing, I bought a drum machine and that helps some but I need to hear that rhythm guitar so I know when I hit a bad note, or good note.

right on....nothing better than recording yourself to find out where your playing has improved

[NoPrints]

I,ve found that my Jamman looper is a great tool for the improv thing. Just record a drum beat, a bass line and some rhythm guitar and play your solo over the top. I plug it up to the headphones and play for a hour or two most nights. Then when I go and jam with mates I surprise myself at how much I,ve learnt or my own style of play that developed. Totally recommend a looper box. I got mine of ebay and chucked in a 2 GB flash type card in the back. It also hooks up with the PC so you can download you music and really muck around with it on Cuebase or the like. Great fun!

[alligatorbling]

as mentioned above... learn the minor pentatonic scales, that will give you a lot to work with

[st.bede]

Originally Posted by axslinger

You can have all the knowledge (theory) in the world, but that doesn't give you the skill to play well.

Another point he made; if you can't make the the pentatonic scale sound good in the #3 position (5-8, 5-7, 5-7, 5-7, 5-8, 5-8), then it won't sound good in any other position because they're the same notes.

Also, when I practice, besides the regular exercises and scales, I try to write a new lick to a jam track I have. But, I write the lick in my head, then I find it on the neck.

In all honesty, the best sounding licks I can play are licks that I wrote that way.

I have also found that many times we avoid note combinations that don't feel natural. Such as notes on the same fret on adjacent strings. We just keep playing the combinations of notes that feel right, or feel natural. Try playing some unnatural note combinations until it feels natural, then you have something to add to your arsenal.

Good Luck!

wow there are some great ideas there....using your inner ear is excellent

I belive that both statements about the petatonic scale sounding good in the thrid postion equals it sounding good in any postion and that the petatonic sacle in different positions promotes diiferent type of runs are equally true:

IMHO it lust depends on how they are approached...the former statement suggest more of a blues approach...the resolution will be the same regardless what postion a person is in....I belive the latter is thinking more modelly...

ON THE TPOPIC OF IMPROVE: TRY USING ANY PETATONIC PATTEREN (POSITION) OVER ANY DOM TYPE CHORD>>>IT IS A GREAT WHY TO PLAY ALT TONALTIES OR OUT.....SUGGESTED TO ME BY AN EXCELENT JAZZ TEACHER AND PLAYER....and I have found it works great

THEORY, CHOPS AND, YOUR EAR All go togther...they feed of each other..I guess I am saying that theroy is an element of playing well

[Guido.c]

Originally Posted by jomo

I'm in a slump right now, just all the sudden. I thought about starting a thread about it but pffft, it's been done so many times, I just started reading threads that are kind of about that. Right now I am thinking of a way to record myself playing some rhythm so I can practice soloing, I bought a drum machine and that helps some but I need to hear that rhythm guitar so I know when I hit a bad note, or good note.

You could get a loop station

[Big John]

I totally aggree with everyone has said so far: play with good players, take chances, get some looping equipment, etc.

Two tricks have worked for me...

I'd say say learn the major scales first, and learn the modes for each major scale (1-7). You can always transpose to the minor equivalent later. Learning the minor scales first, I think, can make it tough to learn anything that isn't a box pattern and the player becomes content with familiar fingerings. Nothing wrong with that, as it lends to a player's style. But with major scales and their modes, a player can jump around and make a lot of different stuff work. Playing a song in Dm7? Treat it as a II in C major and use the modes. Doing a dark blues improv in plain 'ol G minor, use the modes in Bb major. When you can jump around like that, that's a HUGE tool to have available in your techinque toolbox.

Another trick which might break the pentatonic stranglehold on your improvisation is chord visualization. Learn as many different chords as you can stuff in your head. When it comes time to improvise, visualize the chords for your solo on the fingerboard, and creatively play the notes within the chords. The only problem I've had with this is I hate learning chords.

[st.bede]

Originally Posted by Big John

Another trick which might break the pentatonic stranglehold on your improvisation is chord visualization. Learn as many different chords as you can stuff in your head. When it comes time to improvise, visualize the chords for your solo on the fingerboard, and creatively play the notes within the chords. The only problem I've had with this is I hate learning chords.

Excellent, Excellent, Excellent idea...arps can do a simular thing but you have to play the extended/alt notes...

I use these two books and they really allow me to put it all together... Don Latarski these are the books for that... CHORD EMBELLISHMENTS and MOVEABLE CHORDS

however, I do noy dig all of Latarski's books... but most of them are truly the best I have ever seen or used....not to mention I use to see him play guitar when I lived Eugene Or...he is a monster

another way is to learn some exotic scales..that will force your hands to play in wierd ways simular to arps with those ext/alt notes

[geochem1st]

All great ideas. I find that humming, whistling, scat singing, (whatever your good at) a melody from your head over a set of chord changes is how to find your improvisational voice. Practice trying to play what you hum or sing. Find those notes on the fretboard. Start with small phrases at first. Try this with several "standard" chord changes and you will start connecting your mind to your fingers.

[Sea Pull]

Originally Posted by Big John

Another trick which might break the pentatonic stranglehold on your improvisation is chord visualization. Learn as many different chords as you can stuff in your head. When it comes time to improvise, visualize the chords for your solo on the fingerboard, and creatively play the notes within the chords. The only problem I've had with this is I hate learning chords.

+1
and let me add that it also helps learning not just many chords but all the positions that you can play a chord in. How many different ways can you make an "A" chord and leap to a solo from that position? Also look for you tube vids on "turnarounds" they really help in the situation you were in with the Santana song, helps you connect all your riffs together.

Also +1 on playing with others, and recording and jamming over it, that has helped me improve a lot. Try different rhythm's and different keys when you are alone and when playing with others watch and ask questions. I have never met a guitar player that wasn't so egotistical he didn't want to show off and teach what he knows

[Adwex]

The best thing I did to help my improvisation is jamming along with backing tracks. It's like having a full band that never gets tired of hearing you play solos.

It's alot of fun too.

[scoobyzjr]

I agree that you need to learn modes and get your minor scales down in every key. Once you do that, think of improv as question and answer. You rock out a cool riff, then answer that riff with something that complements it. Think of your improv solo as a conversation between two people. It tells a story. The conversation can be happy or argumentative. Try it out.

[st.bede]

Originally Posted by scoobyzjr

You rock out a cool riff, then answer that riff with something that complements it. Think of your improv solo as a conversation between two people. It tells a story. The conversation can be happy or argumentative. Try it out.

always good to keep in mind....in a sense you are talking about form...just to point out there are many different forms that can be used....it is also important to keep the understanding of shape

[st.bede]

I am going to print this all up and give it to my students....Please share any wisdom you have