Tuning machine post hole size??

[ISOgoldtone]

Hey guys.....just a little question about my Les Paul Standard Limited Edition. It has the little "Kluson" style nickel button tuners on it, and I was wondering if it would be an easy swap to put in some locking Grovers. Don't get me wrong, I really like the look of the Klusons, and they seem to be fine as far as being functional goes, but the Grovers have a higher tuning ratio (IIRC,) and they're locking! I wouldn't really consider reaming the post holes, so if the Grovers are actually larger I guess the Klusons are staying forever. I've read somewhere that the old REAL Klusons had smaller holes than Grovers, thus reaming was necessary for a swap-out. Anyhow.......let me know if you all have any experience with this issue! Thanks in advance!

[alexn1018]

i would think the grovers would be the same size but im not positive...can anyone verify this?

[ISOgoldtone]

I'm wondering if I could contact Grover about this directly?? Anybody used their CS before??

[sapi]

Hey man, nice n sweet Klusons!
Best,
jo

[Axeman16]

grovers arent the same size post. they have 1" post. im not sure of the size of those but they are vintage push in bushings, whereas grovers have screw in bushings which are a different size. if you were to put grovers in you would have to ream the holes for the larger post.

[Rico]

Just this week I replaced the same Kluson machine heads you have pictured with Grover Rotomatics. I had to use a reamer. The reamer is tapered so, I'm sure that only the hole at the rear was made wider. I didn't check, but I'm sure that I could put the others back on and you couldn't tell the difference.

The next time I change strings I'll check.

[ISOgoldtone]

Thanks for the input guys! That'd be awesome if you'd let me know if the Klusons can still be swapped back in if wanted next time you change strings Rico! If reaming the holes wouldn't adversely affect the guitar I would probably consider doing it! Thanks again!

[Axeman16]

you wont be able to swap back the klusons after because the hole will then be too big, and the post unstable.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Axeman16

you wont be able to swap back the klusons after because the hole will then be too big, and the post unstable.

I work weekends and will check it, on Monday. Let you know for sure. It didn't seem to make the hole at the front any bigger. But the only way to know for sure is to take a string off and try swapping the tuner.

[Axeman16]

ok. well i would think the string would still put alot of force on the tuner which would make it move, creating unstable tuning.

[Sea Pull]

Originally Posted by Rico

Just this week I replaced the same Kluson machine heads you have pictured with Grover Rotomatics. I had to use a reamer. The reamer is tapered so, I'm sure that only the hole at the rear was made wider. I didn't check, but I'm sure that I could put the others back on and you couldn't tell the difference.

The next time I change strings I'll check.

How do you like the Grovers? Was it worth the effort? I don't mind reaming the guitar but I don't want to do it unless it really makes a difference.

[Rico]

I've only had them on since Tuesday, I think and with the kidney type keys, they make tuning a snap. The klusons with the smaller keys were OK, but the grip wasn't as good. These are the 18:1 turning ratio Grovers. They look good too. I have the same ones on one of my acoustics and it stays in tune really well. I expect the same with these on my LP.

[Rico]

OK I couldn't wait, thinking about being able to put the klusons back in. So after I got home, I went right to work. First let me correct myself I had direct replacement Gotoh nickle button tuners, that look just like the ones you have installed on your black LP. When I install the Gotoh's I didn't have to replace the bushing, as they are the same. I have 4 LP's and am going to (in time) put grover rotomatics on all of them. Anyways I took and unwound the high E string on my 2002 LP STD to check just how tight the post was in the bushing. They move, but ever so slightly, they don't wiggle. But there is a very small space. Then I unwound the high E string from my 2004 LP which has the grovers. I then remove the grover machine. The bushing for the Gotoh & the Klusons which came with the guitar are slightly larger then the bushing for the Grovers. But the Gover machine has a base which is wider. As I thought, the reamer didn't make the hole on the front of the head stock any wider. But because the reamer is tapered, it did widen the hole in the rear of the headstock, which made grover installable.

Now this is how I used the reamer. I took off the high side of the strings. E, B and G first. I started with the high E, inserted the reamer (making sure it was straight and not at an angle). I did a quarter turn, and tried to insert the grover. This felt like it took forever, but by doing it this way, I was able to get the rear hole just wide enough to slide the grover in. Once the hole was perfect, I put the reamer back in the hole and marked it with masking tape. This showed me where I should stop. After that it was quick and simple. A perfect fit every time. Once I had the high strings back on, I took the low strings off and did that side. Then I tuned the guitar up. Let it set a while so that the new strings would stretch and re-tuned. Now I know if I want to sell the guitar with the original tuners I can. I was going to sell them on ebay, but I'll hang on to them. But I might sell the Gotohs.

[ISOgoldtone]

Thanks for all the input Rico! I'm leaning towards trying the locking Grovers whenever I get a little extra dough to blow. Hopefully I'll be able to swap them without permanently altering my Les Paul. The Klusons are pretty sweet lookin' tuners IMO, but I'm just curious how a set of the Grovers might look/work.