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Unread 11-29-2009, 04:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Grover Locking Tuners

What Kind are the Best? The auto lock or thumbwheel locking kind??? I'm sure
some of you guys have both and have reasons for liking one or the other so,
please share you'r likes and dislikes here so we can compare... Thanks,
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Unread 11-29-2009, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Most of mine are thumbwheel (Sperzels). No preference, though.
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Unread 11-29-2009, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Thumbwheels are the 502 model. They are used in the new Standards. I have one shipped so I will post more when it comes home, but they are 1:18 gear ratio.
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Unread 11-29-2009, 05:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

I'd go with Sperzels. I believe PRS uses these kind and they are very nice and smooth. My heart still lies with Klusons though
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Unread 11-29-2009, 05:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

My 08 standard has the thumb wheel ones, seem pretty good, haven't actually had to retune for a fair while now. Can't say for the Auto Locking ones.

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Unread 11-29-2009, 05:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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Loaded like a freight train...

Whatever, my teacher has a 08 Standard and says that theese tuner are pretty good, hold tune well, and the string change is really fast.
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Unread 11-29-2009, 05:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

I used to have an 08 standard the tuners were solid
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Unread 11-29-2009, 06:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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Loaded like a freight train...

Whatever, my teacher has a 08 Standard and says that theese tuner are pretty good, hold tune well, and the string change is really fast.
Rawr.

On a little side note, does anyone know how tight the thumb wheel ones need to be done up? Should they just be nipped up? or should I rip into them with a wrench of some sort? Just want to make sure I've done them up enough.
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Unread 11-29-2009, 06:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

I have got the same question, but I wanted to post it after installing tuners.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 12:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

You don't need to "rip into them"...the locking aspect of the tuner is not there to do anything more than hold the string in place while you are restringing. Yeah...some may have a different view on that... Once the tuner has tension on it...and or...has string wrapped around the post from tuning it up...the tension and friction hold it in place.

However...if you are like me...and use less than one wrap around your tuning post...the locking aspect may play a more important role. I personally have had ZERO issues...and I just finger snug the thumbwheel. Not wrenching down so tight...just firmly snug. No issues what so ever.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

The new thumb wheel Grovers are better IMO. They work just like a Sperzel, feel more solid (and I'm a Sperzel fan), and they retain the stock Grover look. The older style autolocks have posts that are too long and look goofy sticking out the front of the headstock. my only complaint with both styles is they seem to be only available in chrome and not nickel; gold also if you want those, but no black either that I'm aware of.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 05:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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You don't need to "rip into them"...the locking aspect of the tuner is not there to do anything more than hold the string in place while you are restringing. Yeah...some may have a different view on that... Once the tuner has tension on it...and or...has string wrapped around the post from tuning it up...the tension and friction hold it in place.

However...if you are like me...and use less than one wrap around your tuning post...the locking aspect may play a more important role. I personally have had ZERO issues...and I just finger snug the thumbwheel. Not wrenching down so tight...just firmly snug. No issues what so ever.
Ok thanks, I know I shouldn't rip into them mine currently have no wraps around the posts, just through the hole and locked, turned a little bit for the tuning.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 06:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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...mine currently have no wraps around the posts, just through the hole and locked, turned a little bit for the tuning.
Nothing wrong with that. That's how I do it too. Some will say to have a wrap or 2 around the post...I've not found any need for that. You should be just fine.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 08:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Dumbass question, is there any reason to use locking tuners on a hardtail guitar?

I was recently talking to a friend who asked me about tuner upgrades and I said I haven't had any problems with vintage style Klusons even 50 year old examples. He was really into the idea of a locking tuners, but he didn't even have a bigsby or any vibrato mechanism on his guitar. What are the real benefits?
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Unread 11-30-2009, 10:09 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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Originally Posted by imsilly View Post
Dumbass question, is there any reason to use locking tuners on a hardtail guitar?

I was recently talking to a friend who asked me about tuner upgrades and I said I haven't had any problems with vintage style Klusons even 50 year old examples. He was really into the idea of a locking tuners, but he didn't even have a bigsby or any vibrato mechanism on his guitar. What are the real benefits?
The idea is that there are fewer wraps around the post so there is less "settling in" from the tuner standpoint. However, the best feature is very fast string changes which I am sure the live players appreciate. As a tuner, they function pretty much the sames as any quality tuner properly strung. I was happy they came on my Standard as I have had them on PRS, Martin and Fenders and have always liked them.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 10:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

There are no hardware configurations on a guitar that require the locking tuners. They are just an accessory ...if you like. They are completely independent of anything else. So, with that said...you can have them in just about any hardware configuration that I can think of.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 11:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

the new thumbwheel grovers, does anyone know, will they fit my studio or customs?
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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the new thumbwheel grovers, does anyone know, will they fit my studio or customs?
Yes, they are a direct replacement for the larger hole on production Gibsons (not Historics).
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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Dumbass question, is there any reason to use locking tuners on a hardtail guitar?
He was really into the idea of a locking tuners, but he didn't even have a bigsby or any vibrato mechanism on his guitar. What are the real benefits?
Locking tuners have nothing whatever in common with locking nuts or locking trems. They're not a substitute for a locking nut, either. The only thing "locking" about them is that they lock the string to the tuning post -- it's a faster restring since you don't have to fuss around with several turns around the post to lock the string onto it.
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Unread 12-01-2009, 10:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Tattooed Carrot said what I wanted to say about the goofy long posts on the locking Grovers. Absolutely right and too goofy looking. The thumbwheel 18:1's are the good ones. They look the same from the top and my Les Pauls stay in tune very well. And that's due to less windings on the post just like everyone has said. They gotta do 'em in nickel though.
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Unread 12-03-2009, 07:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

i actually think that Schaller mini locking machines work the best out of all of them, with Planet Waves auto-trim machines coming in second...
If there are no wraps, there is nothing to slip once you get the strings stretched...and a little dab of Big Bends Nut Sauce in the nut and saddle slots from time to time.
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Unread 11-29-2010, 02:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

I am a fan of Sperzels, I have always used less than one turn and thumb tightened. When I used the standard amount of turns I had more tuning issues. Sperzel recommeded less than one turn. This helps me since Im a sloppy winder. Can't wait to use the Groverss on my new les paul.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 12:55 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Quote:
Originally Posted by imsilly View Post
Dumbass question, is there any reason to use locking tuners on a hardtail guitar?

I was recently talking to a friend who asked me about tuner upgrades and I said I haven't had any problems with vintage style Klusons even 50 year old examples. He was really into the idea of a locking tuners, but he didn't even have a bigsby or any vibrato mechanism on his guitar. What are the real benefits?
Speaking primarily as a Strat player, I like to think I know a thing or two about trems and tuners. Winding two or three times around a post can definitely create a situation where some string tension is stored as friction in the winding, and heavy trem use can definitely cause changes in string tuning. That simply doesn't exist when you have only half a winding (+/-) with locking tuners; assuming the strings aren't sticking in the grooves of the nut.

Now, are locking tuners really necessary with a stoptail guitar? I don't know, maybe for extreme string bending. But it definitely speeds up string changes.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 01:26 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Quote:
Originally Posted by imsilly View Post
Dumbass question, is there any reason to use locking tuners on a hardtail guitar?

I was recently talking to a friend who asked me about tuner upgrades and I said I haven't had any problems with vintage style Klusons even 50 year old examples. He was really into the idea of a locking tuners, but he didn't even have a bigsby or any vibrato mechanism on his guitar. What are the real benefits?
on a bigsby equiped guitar yes.
hardtail? don't see the real benefits to be honest.all the argument about quick string changes ect I can be pretty quick now as it is with klusons so why do I need to shave a few milliseconds off my time?it's not an olympic sport...
and I have a preference for sperzels over grovers
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Unread 11-30-2010, 03:11 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Locking tuners are a convenience and tuning thing, no wraps around the posts mean quicker string changes and no settling in or slippage. A by-product of this is they stay in tune better after heavy bending. It does not and never has, had anything at all to do with trems. The Grovers are superb and they look cool, the 18:1 ratio is faultless.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 03:18 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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It does not and never has, had anything at all to do with trems.
hysterical viewpoint
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Unread 11-30-2010, 03:52 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

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Originally Posted by michael2003x View Post
Locking tuners are a convenience and tuning thing, no wraps around the posts mean quicker string changes and no settling in or slippage. A by-product of this is they stay in tune better after heavy bending. It does not and never has, had anything at all to do with trems. The Grovers are superb and they look cool, the 18:1 ratio is faultless.
Just thought I'd quote ya and give ya a +1

As much as I prefer the Grover's,be aware that they have a much longer string shaft than regular machine heads and will look out of place. But aesthetics aside...they can't be beat as far as I'm concerned-better ratio(18:1 compared to Sperzels 14);can't beat the classic kidney bean shape;cheaper too.
I got my first Sperzel set 20 years ago now(I think...)and whereas they did solve the tuning instability(and always be aware that you should eliminate nut/bridge etc. problems first)I just never liked them.
As always mate YMMV...

Sperzels-finger tight. Nothing more,nothing less.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 05:52 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

Do NOT get the self-locking tuners. Big mistake. Take a look at the height specifications for the capstans. I got 'em, and they're way too tall. They severely reduce the break angle from the nut if I just string them through directly - which is something I can do easily with the sperzels on my Yamaha.

Secondly, they don't quite fit the screw holes - by a frustrating millimeter or so. The wheel locking Grovers do.

I've just ordered the wheel locking tuners and I'm going to sell the self-locking set. I'm putting a Bigsby on, so it's a bit of added tuning security, but also it makes restringing really quick.

It's really frustrating, the information on tuner replacements. Basically, for Grovers, get your basic rotomatics, or get the rotogrips (wheel locking) as a direct replacement for modern ('80s on, I believe?), but not vintage *sigh* tuners.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 09:44 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

I have the locking grover ones, do i need to wind up a little bit of string or do it like this guy:

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Unread 11-30-2010, 12:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Grover Locking Tuners

[QUOTE=alanucc;2268748]I have the locking grover ones, do i need to wind up a little bit of string or do it like this guy:

I have Sperzels on my Strat and use just slightly more string then that guy does. Never do get into even a full wind though.
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