How do I get that sound ?

[hotrat]

Right, I'm going through the painstaking task of teaching myself guitar with the aid of my LP Classic and Fender FM 210 R (solid state amp) for boost I just use the the amps built in drive channel, I just can't seem to replicate the sound I would love to hear from my guitar, you know that biting blues rock sound you hear so many times from people like Gary Moore & Billy Gibbons etc etc.
Is it that the 57 pups just arn't hot enough or is it maybe the sub standard drive on my amp, if so can anybody recommend a suitable & affordable separate effects unit?

[gw1980]

Originally Posted by hotrat

or is it maybe the sub standard drive on my amp, if so can anybody recommend a suitable & affordable separate effects unit?

Try a drive pedal before your amp, Fender drive channels aren't the best especially on a solid state amp. There are a range of Valve-equipped Blackstar pedals which will give you a warmer kind of drive through your amp. They cost anywhere between £90 and £120.

Hope this helps.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by gw1980

Try a drive pedal before your amp, Fender drive channels aren't the best especially on a solid state amp. There are a range of Valve-equipped Blackstar pedals which will give you a warmer kind of drive through your amp. They cost anywhere between £90 and £120.

Hope this helps.

Yea, I've heard of them, thanks a lot bro.

[-=[Shifty]=-]

I think a lot of their sound has to do with them playin' tube amps.
I have a Marshall Valvetate 8100 half stack and an old Korg AX30G multi effects unit. I ended up deactivating all the 'overdrive/gain' effects on the Korg and use it only for other effects (reverb, delay, compressor, etc) in the effects loop of my amp. It's a night and day difference between the od/gain the tube in my Marshall gives me and the od/gain that the Korg produces!

[heavy blueser]

hi there!

its NOT the pickups
billy gibbons and gary moore both use guitars that do NOT have high output pickups in em.
billy g seldomly used pedals in the early days but got his crunch and dirt from the natutal saturation from his fender tweed amps and later his marshalls.

but if you want the gary moore creamy sound that is so thick you can cut it- like he has on parisienne walkways- an od pedal would be mandatory.
try the digitech bad monkey, its cheap, high quality and a good tubescreamer clone. even gary moore used it.

your guitar however is most definitely right for the job!

[lazz]

Originally Posted by heavy blueser

hi there!

its NOT the pickups
billy gibbons and gary moore both use guitars that do NOT have high output pickups in em.
billy g seldomly used pedals in the early days but got his crunch and dirt from the natutal saturation from his fender tweed amps and later his marshalls.

but if you want the gary moore creamy sound that is so thick you can cut it- like he has on parisienne walkways- an od pedal would be mandatory.
try the digitech bad monkey, its cheap, high quality and a good tubescreamer clone. even gary moore used it.

your guitar however is most definitely right for the job!

or..............get yourself down to the crossroads and sell your soul to the devil

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by heavy blueser

hi there!

its NOT the pickups
billy gibbons and gary moore both use guitars that do NOT have high output pickups in em.
billy g seldomly used pedals in the early days but got his crunch and dirt from the natutal saturation from his fender tweed amps and later his marshalls.

but if you want the gary moore creamy sound that is so thick you can cut it- like he has on parisienne walkways- an od pedal would be mandatory.
try the digitech bad monkey, its cheap, high quality and a good tubescreamer clone. even gary moore used it.

your guitar however is most definitely right for the job!

WOW, thanks for the comprehensive info HB, will check out the bad monkey and delighted I got the right tool for the job. Waheeeeeey!!!!!!!

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by lazz

or..............get yourself down to the crossroads and sell your soul to the devil

Yea, I'd dance with the devil in the pale moonlight, where's the f***ing crossroads man.

[yllsacky]

what did i just hear

[lazz]

where's the f***ing crossroads man

if i told you that you would all go down there

[LPV]

My .02,

don't spend a penny until you check out another amp. A good pedal will sound awful in front of a not so good amp.

[Fiery Father]

these 2 items have been proven time and time again as total win. everyone who's ever made a classic record has used a setup like this. you use the amps natural twang and break up to play your rhythms and then you can add drive and smooth out the tone when soloing using the ever tried and true ibanez tube screamer.

Fender hot rod deluxe combo:


Ibanez classic tube screamer:


close the thread, no more questions. lock and sticky this.

[eaglewolf]

I got a Blackstar HT-Dual two channel tube pedal, and that thing rocks! It is a bit expensive (I think I paid around $200 for it at Guitar Center) but it was worth it in my opinion. It gives a great tube distortion through the clean channel on my amps. I haven't tried it with the Marshall MG - solid state generally gives you pretty good cleans - I'll have to try that one of these days. It is definitely the best sounding distortion pedal that I tried.



Fulltone also made an excellent distortion/OD pedal, but it too was about the same price as the Blackstar.

Otherwise you are looking at changing your amp. Try the pedals first as that is quite a bit cheaper than a new amp.

Your guitar should be quite capable of producing the sounds you want, though getting it to do that will take a lot of practice and fiddling with the settings on your amp, pedals and guitar. Keep at it and you will get there.

David

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by lazz

where's the f***ing crossroads man

if i told you that you would all go down there

I can keep a secret! Honestly.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by eaglewolf

I got a Blackstar HT-Dual two channel tube pedal, and that thing rocks! It is a bit expensive (I think I paid around $200 for it at Guitar Center) but it was worth it in my opinion. It gives a great tube distortion through the clean channel on my amps. I haven't tried it with the Marshall MG - solid state generally gives you pretty good cleans - I'll have to try that one of these days. It is definitely the best sounding distortion pedal that I tried.



Fulltone also made an excellent distortion/OD pedal, but it too was about the same price as the Blackstar.

Otherwise you are looking at changing your amp. Try the pedals first as that is quite a bit cheaper than a new amp.

Your guitar should be quite capable of producing the sounds you want, though getting it to do that will take a lot of practice and fiddling with the settings on your amp, pedals and guitar. Keep at it and you will get there.

David

I bow to your knowledge oh great one.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by LPV

My .02,

don't spend a penny until you check out another amp. A good pedal will sound awful in front of a not so good amp.

Hmmmm,more expense.

[LPV]

Originally Posted by hotrat

Hmmmm,more expense.

Welcome to the quest for tone.

As a side note, I've got an OCD and it sounds like CRAP if front of a solid state amp. But fulltone basically tells you it will. In front of a blackheart that cost 20 LESS than the pedal and rock on.

[Parip]

Fulltone OCD pedal should do the job...

[Scarab Exec]

Originally Posted by hotrat

I'm going through the painstaking task of teaching myself guitar

The right equipment definately helps but you kinda answered your own question right here. A good part of how you'll ultimately sound as a player comes from your technique and ability as a player so keep working on that.

Someone posted a pic of a Fender amp and a tube screamer. My setup circa 1982 was a new Fender Twin Reverb and a Tube Screamer. Here's my take on that: With my Les Paul Firebrand plugged into the above I could cop a nearly exact David Gilmour "Comfortably Numb" lead tone, but my rhythm sound would suck. I'd then adjust to get an acceptable rhythm sound and this would result in a crappy lead sound. The same exact thing happened when I upgraded to the Les Paul Custom.

The cure. Lose both the the pedal and amp and plug directly into a Marshall half stack. It actually took a few years for me to jump from the twin to the Marshall but once there it was much easier to get that all inclusive tone I'd been trying to get.

The Les Paul/ Marshall setup will get you maybe 95% of the way to your Billy Gibbons tone, after that it's all up to you, your skill, drive, personality, temperament, feel, touch, sense of taste and style, ear...etc.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by Parip

Fulltone OCD pedal should do the job...

Yea? in front of my Fender solid state, just trying to clarify on the point our good buddy LPV made. Stay Cooool

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by Scarab Exec

The right equipment definately helps but you kinda answered your own question right here. A good part of how you'll ultimately sound as a player comes from your technique and ability as a player so keep working on that.

Someone posted a pic of a Fender amp and a tube screamer. My setup circa 1982 was a new Fender Twin Reverb and a Tube Screamer. Here's my take on that: With my Les Paul Firebrand plugged into the above I could cop a nearly exact David Gilmour "Comfortably Numb" lead tone, but my rhythm sound would suck. I'd then adjust to get an acceptable rhythm sound and this would result in a crappy lead sound. The same exact thing happened when I upgraded to the Les Paul Custom.

The cure. Lose both the the pedal and amp and plug directly into a Marshall half stack. It actually took a few years for me to jump from the twin to the Marshall but once there it was much easier to get that all inclusive tone I'd been trying to get.

The Les Paul/ Marshall setup will get you maybe 95% of the way to your Billy Gibbons tone, after that it's all up to you, your skill, drive, personality, temperament, feel, touch, sense of taste and style, ear...etc.

Phew!!! What day is it again, where am I ?

[LPV]

Originally Posted by hotrat

Yea? in front of my Fender solid state, just trying to clarify on the point our good buddy LPV made. Stay Cooool

It won't sound good. It'll sound real harsh. It needs a tube power section to warm it up. But with that... Awesome. AC/DC, ZZ top, Van Halen if you can live without some of the plexi "flex". And at reasonable volumes too.

[heavy blueser]

of course hotrat would be satisfied with a full blown tube amp like the fender.
but one can get very reasonable sounds with a solid state amp and good od pedal.
and all taht without sepnding too mich dough and having an amp that is not realyl suitable for home use.

reagrding the use of solid state amps:
its however true that it wont sound the same like when you use a fender tube amp and crank it and then add some od.
the fender ss that hotrat owns is a pretty decent amp.
with a bit of EQing and takin out treble the sound wont be too harsch
so....
plus you can still roll down the tone controls on your les paul.

[heavy blueser]

Originally Posted by hotrat

WOW, thanks for the comprehensive info HB, will check out the bad monkey and delighted I got the right tool for the job. Waheeeeeey!!!!!!!

no prob, bro.
the les paul you got is a killer axe and even with a solid state amp it will sound great.
i oughta know cause i too use (among other amps) a fender solid state combo.

the bad monkey is a good clone of the ts, but if you got the dough get a "real" one from ibanez
the bad monkey is dirt cheap and as i mentioned above its all about the EQ settings

ah and before i forget, another "tip" to consider:
try crankin the drive knob on your amp all the way up, select the neck pu on your lp and roll the neck tone control all the way down to zero.
then got to your amp and dial the folowing settings in:
bass:8
mid:10
trebel:7

how does that sound?: at least you now must be a lil closer to that singin tone your after!

[LPV]

I am simply suggesting that he determine where the main source of his tone issue is before wasting money on something else.

[Jason]

Tubes. For me, the amp just HAS to have tubes or I feel like something is missing. You just can't fully replicate the sound and, more importantly, the feel of real tubes. Yes, you can get absolutely great tones from a solid state amp, but it's just missing something IMO.

Low watt tube amp and an OD or boost pedal is the way to go.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by heavy blueser

no prob, bro.
the les paul you got is a killer axe and even with a solid state amp it will sound great.
i oughta know cause i too use (among other amps) a fender solid state combo.

the bad monkey is a good clone of the ts, but if you got the dough get a "real" one from ibanez
the bad monkey is dirt cheap and as i mentioned above its all about the EQ settings

ah and before i forget, another "tip" to consider:
try crankin the drive knob on your amp all the way up, select the neck pu on your lp and roll the neck tone control all the way down to zero.
then got to your amp and dial the folowing settings in:
bass:8
mid:10
trebel:7

how does that sound?: at least you now must be a lil closer to that singin tone your after!

I'll shoot it to ya straight and look you in the eye so give me just a minute and I'll tell you why..........You rock HB

[moff40]

I'm gonna jump in here and also suggest that you get the best tube amp you can afford, and preferrably a tube amp with a gain stage that's hotter than a Fender amp - like a Marshall (and if you can find a '70s 4-input MkII, all the better).

I'm not dissing Fender amps. I've owned 7 or so over the years, and they definitely have their place - mostly clean or clean-ish tones - but you'll never coax the Billy Gibbons tone out of a Deluxe. And you won't coax it out of a solid state amp, either, even if you spend $1000 on a custom made, boutique OD pedal (which will probably sound like crap in front of a SS amp).

Marshall has "that" sound", especially when paired wit a 4x12 cabinet. They have a preamp that's hotter than Fender (how much hotter will depend in its age and model), so classic crunch through to nu-metal OD is available from the amp alone, yet you can tame it by rolling off the volume on the guitar. I went from amp to amp for nearly 35 years, looking for "that tone". Chanel switching, clean amp with OD pedals, modelling, etc., tried 'em all. I finally found it when I went back to a Marshall Plexi (clone) head and 4x12. It's big, but the sound makes up for having to haul it around. Every tone I want is in there. I don't need an OD, I don't need channel-switching - it's all in there, and accessible using the tone and volume controls on the guitar. Of course, YMMV...

I'm not suggesting that someone who is just learning should buck up for a rig like that, or that anyone wants something that big in their livingroom, but definitely go to a tube amp. There are lots of low-cost options out there: Blackheart, Orange Tiny Terror, and the Egnater Rebel (I have one of these for small gigs, and it's very nice) are the major players in the low-watt tube amp market, and I believe Marshall will soon be introducing the Haze... There are others as well.

[scozz]

Good tone starts with a tube amp, (at the very least a hybrid amp) then you go from there.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by moff40

I'm gonna jump in here and also suggest that you get the best tube amp you can afford, and preferrably a tube amp with a gain stage that's hotter than a Fender amp - like a Marshall (and if you can find a '70s 4-input MkII, all the better).

I'm not dissing Fender amps. I've owned 7 or so over the years, and they definitely have their place - mostly clean or clean-ish tones - but you'll never coax the Billy Gibbons tone out of a Deluxe. And you won't coax it out of a solid state amp, either, even if you spend $1000 on a custom made, boutique OD pedal (which will probably sound like crap in front of a SS amp).

Marshall has "that" sound", especially when paired wit a 4x12 cabinet. They have a preamp that's hotter than Fender (how much hotter will depend in its age and model), so classic crunch through to nu-metal OD is available from the amp alone, yet you can tame it by rolling off the volume on the guitar. I went from amp to amp for nearly 35 years, looking for "that tone". Chanel switching, clean amp with OD pedals, modelling, etc., tried 'em all. I finally found it when I went back to a Marshall Plexi (clone) head and 4x12. It's big, but the sound makes up for having to haul it around. Every tone I want is in there. I don't need an OD, I don't need channel-switching - it's all in there, and accessible using the tone and volume controls on the guitar. Of course, YMMV...

I'm not suggesting that someone who is just learning should buck up for a rig like that, or that anyone wants something that big in their livingroom, but definitely go to a tube amp. There are lots of low-cost options out there: Blackheart, Orange Tiny Terror, and the Egnater Rebel (I have one of these for small gigs, and it's very nice) are the major players in the low-watt tube amp market, and I believe Marshall will soon be introducing the Haze... There are others as well.

Its just hit me....like a silver bullet in the forehead.....I know jack shit, apart from learning how to play I'm gonna have to get familiar with all the rest of the stuff that goes with it, oh man.... its gonna be fun though. Thanks