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Unread 04-06-2009, 10:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I'd like to get everyone's opinions on the quality and tuning stability between the two.





Personally, I had the vintage Gibson Deluxe style tuners on my LP Studio, replaced them with Grovers & was a happy camper.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 10:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I've always loved Grovers. Never liked Klusons. I suppose they work fine, but I don't like the look. I've reamed two USA Std.s for Grovers and I'll be doing the same to my R8 and R9.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 10:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse View Post
I've always loved Grovers. Never liked Klusons. I suppose they work fine, but I don't like the look. I've reamed two USA Std.s for Grovers and I'll be doing the same to my R8 and R9.
Well, if you're doing it to your R8 & R9 then that's good enough for me!
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Unread 04-06-2009, 10:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Another thing about Klusons is that in my experience, some tend to be really stiff and others feel loose and cheap. I like the precision of Grovers.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 11:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Kluson-style tuners made in the last 15 - 20 years have been much better than those of earlier years, and, in many cases, just as stable. Gear ratio for early Klusons was 12:1, whereas more recent copies are 14:1 and sometimes higher. I have guitars with Shaller, Gotoh, Grover, and Kluson-style, and they're all comparable in slippage, or lack thereof.

For me, the trade-off is transfer of string vibration to the wood (and the weight on the neck). The higher mass Grovers absorb some of the string vibration, whereas the Klusons allow more of it to transfer to the headstock. I replaced the Klusons on my SG with Grover Rotomatics in the '70s. Recently, I went back to Kluson-style tuners on it (using conversion grommets), and I was surprised at the difference in resonance at the neck. Not necessarily better than what I had with the Grovers, but I prefer it.

This, for me, was a better comparison than comparing one guitar with Grovers to one with Klusons. My PRS Custom 22 has Shaller gears, while my PRS McCarty has Kluson-style. Other than the thicker body of the McCarty, they are the same guitar. The problem with the comparison is that they were made from two different trees, so it's difficult to tell whether the gears have in effect on the resonance.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 11:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Always like Grovers overall, but Klusons do have their place on some guitars. There is definitely a difference in tone/feel between the two.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 11:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

vintage klusons is looking good & great...
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Unread 04-07-2009, 11:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

While I love the look of the Klusons, they've always felt loose to me. Switched to Grovers and have never looked back.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 11:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

My guitar came with grover metals tuners like the 2nd pic at the top of this thread.

I changed them for Grover vintage style tuners that look like the 1st pic in this thread (tulips). I was looking for more of a pearl colour so I bought the Kulsons tulips. I put them on but they weren't so controllable when tuning. So I put it 3 klusons and 3 of the grover vintage style tulips and did some massive bends and stuff. The Grover vintage style tuners were WAY better at staying in tune and offered better control. I sold the Klusons

Plus ironically the mint green tulips look better than the yellowy/pearl ones
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Unread 04-07-2009, 12:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I had a stock Gibson Kluson fall apart once. The shaft fell right off of the damn base plate on the A string. I switched to Tonepros Kluson and haven't had a single regret, only that I didn't do it sooner. I also have Grovers with the tulip-style peg on my '93 Classic and it is very sturdy. Definitely holds its own against the Rotomatic and fits right over the imprint on the back of the headstock from the Klusons. Maybe it's because I'm vain or superficial, but that imprint just rubs me the wrong way.

Either way you go, Tonepros or Grover tulip-style, they are a vast improvement over the stock units, no matter what. The stock tuners do a fine job of holding the string in place, but aren't nearly as smooth and precise as the competition. Plus, the shaft is much taller, allowing more winds. More winds = Improved stability.

It's a pretty easy decision to me.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 12:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I'll thought I'd mention that the Tonepros Klusons feel slightly loose when the string is at full tension. Kinda like the gear is slipping, but don't be fooled, they're just that easy to turn.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 12:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I always feel like I have to tune my Gibson Les Paul Standard 03 (Kluson tuners) after I've played some guitar licks, so I am considering changing them with TonePros Kluson style tuners (16:1), I'm not to sure. I haven't tried Grovers on my LP, but when I'm trying out the ES-335 (with Grovers) at my local guitarshop, I always strange enough ends up with tuning the guitar after just a little guitar lick. This is really annoying, but I don't know how the Grovers would keep the tuning on my LP. Altough I like the look of the Grovers better than the Klusons. So I don't know which of them I like the most, like I said, I haven't tried Grovers on my LP, so I can't really compare them to each other, yet.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 12:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

i have the older style on my 02 and like them. they hold tune very well.
they look cheap or straty but imo theyre just fine
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Unread 04-07-2009, 01:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I have always been a fan of Grovers, but the Tonepros Klusons that came stock on my Traditional work and feel great and look great. I'm keeping them. I did have to put some pencil lead in my nut slots, but that has nothing to do with the tuners. My tuning has been very stable since taking that step.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 03:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Changed the stock chrome Grovers to vintage 135 Grovers. I love those vintage tuners, I think Les Paul guitars look their best with these.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 04:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Klusons for more vintage LPs, Grovers for modern ones and better functionality

I played an old LP Standard (late 70s I think) at GC with Klusons and one of them broke off! Needless to say I have Grover 18:1 tuners on my LP Custom and Grover Rotomatic on my Guild.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 05:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

You have to first start with a well cut nut or keep it lubed. I bad mouthed the tulips until I greased up my nut . now there purrrfect.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 06:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Grovers are nice, but I hate the way they weigh down the headstock.

Love the look, weight and feel of the Kluson, and I've never had any probs with them.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 08:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I used to like Grovers, but now they are made in the orient and aren't the same anymore. I won't be using them again.
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Unread 04-07-2009, 09:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

No trouble at all with the Klusons on my Standard LE.
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Unread 04-10-2009, 10:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I love grovers!!!!
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Unread 04-10-2009, 10:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I hate klusons they don't grip very well. The tip is too small.
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Unread 04-11-2009, 02:56 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Well I always like to see originality on my guitars. Having said that, I have had to put up with Klusons that forever go out of tune, sets that see stiiffness and floppy lightness on the same headstock. My old '71 Deluxe was my main gigging guitar and I ended up putting Grovers on it just for the reliability. The Klusons on my LP Special are a frickin' nightmare, but I won't take 'em off! Mad isn't it!
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Unread 04-11-2009, 03:02 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

If it were mine, they'd be gone before you could spread Marmite on your toast.
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Unread 04-11-2009, 03:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I've found most Grovers, (at least until maybe a few years ago,) were pretty imprecise when it came to tuning. Not as bad as some older Klusons, but I don't like any "play" in my tuners.

The new Grovers are much better, imho. But I think the Gotoh Deltas are about the nicest sealed tuners around. I've got them on my Larrivee, and it's a joy to tune that baby up, (though they keep her so well in tune that doesn't happen often...)

The new Tonepros Klusons, I really like for feel, accuracy and sound.


Am I the only one who thinks there's a big difference in sound between the Kluson style, and the Grover-style?

IMHO, the Klusons tend to make a guitar sound more open, maybe more vibrant.

But Grovers definitely help out with sustain, and maybe add some girth to the sound.

Which one sounds better just depends on your taste, and your guitars. I actually think ES-335's, or any really resonant guitar, usually sounds better with Grovers. With Klusons, it's a bit "busy" sounding: too many harmonics, they just crash into each other.
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Unread 04-11-2009, 03:28 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Yep. I prefer the tone of Grovers. The way you described it is spot on.
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Unread 04-11-2009, 04:02 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I installed locking Grovers on my Custom. They make string changes a lot easier and faster. They also work well with my TonePros locking tailpiece and locking bridge to increase sustain. Other features I like are that the locking tuners are the same size as non-lockers because the locking mechanism is inside the tuners so you don't have those ugly thumbwheels, and they fit the existing holes in the headstock.

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Unread 04-11-2009, 08:20 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

I've got Grovers on my 335, as well as my old Martin, and the Gibson Deluxe on an LP Standard. The Grovers, like Schallers generally have "fine" / precision / smooth gearing. Nice castings with nice plating. Overall they exude quality. The Gibson tuners are OK, but frankly seem to have less precise gearing and look and feel more flimsy than Grover or Schaller machines. Their "claim to fame" is in their "vintage kitcsch".
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Unread 04-11-2009, 09:52 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

When I bought the 2008 Standard, I was excited about the Grovers; considering I had some bad Klusons in the past. For some reason, my Standard didn't stay in tune very well. I just bought a Traditional last month, and it stays in tune like a rock with the factory Klusons. I love the vintage Kluson look, so it is really a plus that they hold tune now.
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Unread 04-12-2009, 08:01 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Vintage style Gibson deluxe tuners vs. Grover tuners

Quote:
Originally Posted by murfdog View Post
When I bought the 2008 Standard, I was excited about the Grovers; considering I had some bad Klusons in the past. For some reason, my Standard didn't stay in tune very well. I just bought a Traditional last month, and it stays in tune like a rock with the factory Klusons. I love the vintage Kluson look, so it is really a plus that they hold tune now.
Well they're using the Tone Pros Klusons, (the version with the hex nuts.)

IMHO, the new Klusons hold their tuning as well as the new Grovers, and better than the older Grovers did.

People used to use die-cast tuners for stability, but that's not a requirement now, so you can choose which sounds and looks better to you.
Glad to hear you're satisfied!
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