Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock

decoy205 · 10-25-2007, 04:03 PM

I don't know if this bothers anyone else but why do Epiphones have that weird version of the open book headstock in America? the Japanese versions had the regular Gibson shape like orvilles. I mean they have different finishes, and different wood so isn't that enough to distinguish between the two levels of quality?

Fender makes Squires and they have the same headstock shape just the name is different. I don't know why it bothers me but it does. It just seems like it seals the deal as far "cheaper" goes. It's purely cosmetic of course but i love the Gibby headstock shape. there's something perfect about it.

Axeman16 · 10-25-2007, 07:18 PM

the gibson open book i way nicer imho

lifele55 · 10-25-2007, 07:56 PM

But I just can't resist looking at an Epiphone with an open book headstock..

Of course and Epi isn't a Gibson but heck it looks cool with the open book

magnido45 · 10-25-2007, 08:00 PM

I agree...a major part of buying a guitar (for me) is it's looks...when I first learned about the Les Paul and that it was made by Gibson and Epiphone...I wanted to check out the differences besides the price and components...Upon comparing the two, I couldn't help but to notice the ugly headstock on the Epiphones...Man, it's really ugly...if Epiphone stuck with a matching headstock to the Gibby's...I just might buy one as a backup/project guitar.

decoy205 · 10-25-2007, 09:28 PM

That's what im saying. I just don't understand why they think they need to do that. I would def. buy an epi if the headstock was the same. I mean even on the epi explorer its the same they didnt change that.

If you look at the japanese epiphones a lot of the older one's were made by orville so they had the regular open book headstock shape, long neck tenon, and nitro finish! and they are about a third of a usa gibson. I think they are awesome. I think the epi elites are awesome guitars i just cant get past the wack headstock design. Oh well.

im_b0r3d_ · 10-28-2007, 01:06 AM

I know exactly what you mean. I hated my Epiphone's headstock shape. Gibson's headstocks just are "perfect". Even Elitists don't have the Gibson style, you think they would.

lp59aholicDon · 10-28-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoy205

That's what im saying. I just don't understand why they think they need to do that. I would def. buy an epi if the headstock was the same. I mean even on the epi explorer its the same they didnt change that.

If you look at the japanese epiphones a lot of the older one's were made by orville so they had the regular open book headstock shape, long neck tenon, and nitro finish! and they are about a third of a usa gibson. I think they are awesome. I think the epi elites are awesome guitars i just cant get past the wack headstock design. Oh well.

I had for a very short time, an Epi Made in Japan, by Fuji Gen ( the real Orville guys) had the Moustache headstock, long tenon neck, and it was a Gothic You can get the Epi Japanese like that still, Off ebay, Part of the difference of a Real Replica Les, and a Copy Les, is in that headtock
Most Epi Japans, also have holly vaneer in the headstock as well

Ryan_Riot · 06-13-2008, 09:52 PM

i wont buy a guitar if i dont like the headstock.

dennistruckdriver · 06-13-2008, 10:16 PM

How 'bout the hideous headstock on the Epiphone Dot Studio and other models?

captain tightpants · 06-13-2008, 11:00 PM

I can't tell you how many times I've had the urge to take a coping saw to my Dot's headstock!

dennistruckdriver · 06-13-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain tightpants

I can't tell you how many times I've had the urge to take a coping saw to my Dot's headstock!

Yeah! Cut it off between the nut and first fret!

Kuroyama · 06-14-2008, 05:26 AM

Some people talk about how the headstock isnt important. what matters more than looks is how well you play it.

Yeah, I can get with that logic.

But at the same time... you need to respect that people DO factor looks into the buy. Its the reason you buy a red guitar and not a blue one, or a green guitar and not a purple one. Im not saying blue and purple are bad colors, Im just saying at some point you draw a line and say THIS is what I prefer! it doesnt devalue the other...its just what you want.

Like most people on this thread, I too prefer the open book. WOULD buy a dot epi if it didnt have that horrific Mick Jagger lips headstock... Ive thought to buy one and have a guy take a band saw to it, but the head shape is different through the sides so even if I cut off the top, the shape would still be wrong.

Also I live in Japan and have been shopping JP Epis as of late. Tryin ta find that gold top with P90s... Trouble is that even in Japan JP Eps are sought after. So if you see an ad for one...unless its a web page that JUST got updated... the guitar is probably gone.

Those epi shaped epis though... I rarely see people here buyin them. They dont have to. In Japan there are other companies that do a great open book headstock like Tokai, or Burny, or Edwards. Id rather have well made guitar thats SHAPED like a Les Paul and not BE a Les Paul than buy a guitar thats just shaped like something else. If I just wanted to play some-anything with two humbuckers in it. Id buy an old Telecaster Deluxe. I hope someday Gibson realizes how much money they are losing in potential sales. This US recession cant be INCREASING Gibson high end guitar sales... an open book headstock on the Epi line could mean some monster sales... Hope those Gibby boys see this.

luvvitlowd · 06-14-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decoy205

I would def. buy an epi if the headstock was the same.

This is probably one of the many reasons why they keep them different.

decoy205 · 06-14-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

Mick Jagger lips headstock...

I hope someday Gibson realizes how much money they are losing in potential sales. This US recession cant be INCREASING Gibson high end guitar sales... an open book headstock on the Epi line could mean some monster sales... Hope those Gibby boys see this.

Mick Jagger lips hahahaha

I kinda feel the same way I think that epi sales would double if they had the correct headstock. Epis are great guitars in their own right but thats what has prevented me from going for them first. Although I have been diggin that epi 7 string.

Belzeebub · 06-14-2008, 09:56 AM

All this talk about headstocks brings to my memory some interesting things. First off, I do not like the Epi headstocks. Period. To me, it just seems like a weak attempt by Epiphone to associate itself with something of a higher pedigree. It would have been better if they just came up with their own unique & appealing design instead of taking that cue from Gibson then lopping off the "horns". Next, IIRC, it was Yngwie Malmsteen who once said that headstocks play an important role in the guitar's sustain. Essentially, he was saying, the bigger the headstock, the more it factors into the overall equation of that guitar's sustain. Obviously, he was referring to Fender strats and it looks like thats why he retained that '70s headstock on his strats.

Belzeebub · 06-14-2008, 10:00 AM

However, I will also add that the reason Epi doesnt "copy" Gibson headstocks is all about brand differentation. Obviously, patent infringement isnt an issue here since Epi is owned by Gibson in the first place so thats not the reason on whats keeping Epi from putting the same headstock design on its guitars.

hbucker · 06-14-2008, 10:20 AM

I don't like the Epiphone headstock. The headstock on my Elitist is better IMO but still not on par with the Gibson headstock. I can live with it though.

IMO, Gibson USA is all about making sure you can only get certain features within their own product line. They're very sensitive about diluting the appeal of their specific products.

stryker59 · 06-14-2008, 01:09 PM

i aint much on the epi lp headstock either.....like a point made earlier, the squire strat is the number 1 selling import guitar in the world and fender doesnt put a different headstock design on it!

Lampens · 06-15-2008, 06:14 AM

Isn't it more about tradition? Epiphone used to be a good brand in it's own right before Gibson bought it. Les Paul made his LOG in the epi factory. A lot of great players played epiphone guitars with that epiphone headstock design. I guess that's why they keep it.
I still like the gibson design better though lol.

classic · 06-15-2008, 06:58 AM

Who's complaining about Epi headstocks ???

... just kidding ...

I guess Gibson is very consequent in their 'headstock policy' ... only a real Gibbo is allowed to use that open book shape ...
Exception:
The Japanese law seems to tolerate liberally all kinds of headstock shapes ... and we can see that it is also working for Gibson though ... Japan is one of the most important markets for LesPaul-type-guitars or especially for the Gibson brand ... whether there are Tokais or (some) Epi-models or whatever brand which are using the open-book headstock too ...

ac4rd · 06-15-2008, 08:07 AM

This is an old Epiphone 335 copy with a copy of the Gibson "open book" headstock; it's not an exact copy but looks a lot like it. Sorry for the poor quality; I'm living in two cities and this guitar is "away" right now, so this is clipped from an old snapshot.

I bought this guitar used, back in 1976 or '77, I think, at a pawnshop in Baton Rouge; the owner told me it was one of the first Epiphones to be made in Japan. There's a blue Epiphone sticker inside the body that says Kalamazoo and also says "Made in Japan," if I recall right. It's hard to see in this snapshot, but the headstock is bigger and squarer than a Gibson one but looks like the open book at the top.

It has a bolt-on neck that has never been very stable; very thin neck front-to-back, which should be nice for my short fingers, but it was so easy to "vibrato" accidentally while playing that I've never played it much. :-(

Schtang · 06-16-2008, 04:34 AM

Have to agree - the "standard" epi stock is damn ugly - BUT the one on the Sheraton II I really like.

The Sheraton II is an all round beautiful guitar including it headstock

Nils · 06-16-2008, 03:21 PM

I think the Epi headstock looks good in the "curly" way and the gibson headstock in the minimalistic way

So.. I like both

The Epi Elitist headstocks I think aren't that pretty though

Grand Pappy in Chandler · 06-16-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schtang

Have to agree - the epi stock is damn ugly - BUT the one on the Sheraton II I really like.

Schtang, That looks eaxctly like a Tele Nashville Deluxe w/ an Epi neck photoshoped on it!
I have a Tele N.D. that has the same color body, pick guard and PUP configuration. WTF!

LongBeach · 06-16-2008, 03:54 PM

I see where Epiphone was going with it, but when you "somewhat" copy something, it always seems to end up fugly.

Now, on the Fender side of things with Squire, I really dislike the big "Squire" emblem, rather it just be blank. They used big, bold letter's so nobody would confuse the two, even though there the same? right? Saying a Squire isnt a real Fender is like saying a MIM Fender isnt real either? I'm only asking!

10-25-2007, 04:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
decoy205 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 1,576 Thanks: 17 Thanked 15 Times in 3 Posts	Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I don't know if this bothers anyone else but why do Epiphones have that weird version of the open book headstock in America? the Japanese versions had the regular Gibson shape like orvilles. I mean they have different finishes, and different wood so isn't that enough to distinguish between the two levels of quality? Fender makes Squires and they have the same headstock shape just the name is different. I don't know why it bothers me but it does. It just seems like it seals the deal as far "cheaper" goes. It's purely cosmetic of course but i love the Gibby headstock shape. there's something perfect about it. __________________ click below to for details: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/back...ntry-info.html http://www.myspace.com/meteorsound http://www.bcrmusic.com/index.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=872850

10-25-2007, 07:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
Axeman16 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,996 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock the gibson open book i way nicer imho

10-25-2007, 07:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
lifele55 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reddot Singapore Posts: 1,513 Thanks: 6 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock But I just can't resist looking at an Epiphone with an open book headstock.. Of course and Epi isn't a Gibson but heck it looks cool with the open book __________________ 2004 Wine Red Epiphone Std - Saosin Autographed '07 2006 Antique Ivory YEC Epiphone Custom 2001 Ebony MIJ Epiphone Custom http://www.myspace.com/asyouweresg www.youtube.com/psychotubes

10-25-2007, 08:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
magnido45 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I agree...a major part of buying a guitar (for me) is it's looks...when I first learned about the Les Paul and that it was made by Gibson and Epiphone...I wanted to check out the differences besides the price and components...Upon comparing the two, I couldn't help but to notice the ugly headstock on the Epiphones...Man, it's really ugly...if Epiphone stuck with a matching headstock to the Gibby's...I just might buy one as a backup/project guitar.

10-25-2007, 09:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
decoy205 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 1,576 Thanks: 17 Thanked 15 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock That's what im saying. I just don't understand why they think they need to do that. I would def. buy an epi if the headstock was the same. I mean even on the epi explorer its the same they didnt change that. If you look at the japanese epiphones a lot of the older one's were made by orville so they had the regular open book headstock shape, long neck tenon, and nitro finish! and they are about a third of a usa gibson. I think they are awesome. I think the epi elites are awesome guitars i just cant get past the wack headstock design. Oh well. __________________ click below to for details: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/back...ntry-info.html http://www.myspace.com/meteorsound http://www.bcrmusic.com/index.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=872850

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10-28-2007, 01:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
im_b0r3d_ V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,541 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I know exactly what you mean. I hated my Epiphone's headstock shape. Gibson's headstocks just are "perfect". Even Elitists don't have the Gibson style, you think they would.

06-13-2008, 09:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ryan_Riot Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: King, North Carolina Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock i wont buy a guitar if i dont like the headstock.

06-13-2008, 10:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
dennistruckdriver MLP Trucker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South of South St. Louis, MO. USA Posts: 3,937 Thanks: 27 Thanked 55 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock How 'bout the hideous headstock on the Epiphone Dot Studio and other models? __________________ Life without music would be TOO DANG QUIET!!! -Dennis The Truck Driver, 2008

06-13-2008, 11:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
captain tightpants V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orland CA Posts: 1,975 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I can't tell you how many times I've had the urge to take a coping saw to my Dot's headstock!

06-14-2008, 05:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kuroyama V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock Some people talk about how the headstock isnt important. what matters more than looks is how well you play it. Yeah, I can get with that logic. But at the same time... you need to respect that people DO factor looks into the buy. Its the reason you buy a red guitar and not a blue one, or a green guitar and not a purple one. Im not saying blue and purple are bad colors, Im just saying at some point you draw a line and say THIS is what I prefer! it doesnt devalue the other...its just what you want. Like most people on this thread, I too prefer the open book. WOULD buy a dot epi if it didnt have that horrific Mick Jagger lips headstock... Ive thought to buy one and have a guy take a band saw to it, but the head shape is different through the sides so even if I cut off the top, the shape would still be wrong. Also I live in Japan and have been shopping JP Epis as of late. Tryin ta find that gold top with P90s... Trouble is that even in Japan JP Eps are sought after. So if you see an ad for one...unless its a web page that JUST got updated... the guitar is probably gone. Those epi shaped epis though... I rarely see people here buyin them. They dont have to. In Japan there are other companies that do a great open book headstock like Tokai, or Burny, or Edwards. Id rather have well made guitar thats SHAPED like a Les Paul and not BE a Les Paul than buy a guitar thats just shaped like something else. If I just wanted to play some-anything with two humbuckers in it. Id buy an old Telecaster Deluxe. I hope someday Gibson realizes how much money they are losing in potential sales. This US recession cant be INCREASING Gibson high end guitar sales... an open book headstock on the Epi line could mean some monster sales... Hope those Gibby boys see this.

06-14-2008, 09:56 AM	#15 (permalink)
Belzeebub V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Essex Mountain Sanatorium Posts: 1,374 Thanks: 21 Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock All this talk about headstocks brings to my memory some interesting things. First off, I do not like the Epi headstocks. Period. To me, it just seems like a weak attempt by Epiphone to associate itself with something of a higher pedigree. It would have been better if they just came up with their own unique & appealing design instead of taking that cue from Gibson then lopping off the "horns". Next, IIRC, it was Yngwie Malmsteen who once said that headstocks play an important role in the guitar's sustain. Essentially, he was saying, the bigger the headstock, the more it factors into the overall equation of that guitar's sustain. Obviously, he was referring to Fender strats and it looks like thats why he retained that '70s headstock on his strats. __________________ 2008 Gibson Les Paul Classic Heritage Cherry 2005 Fender American Standard Stratocaster Triple Sunburst

06-14-2008, 10:00 AM	#16 (permalink)
Belzeebub V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Essex Mountain Sanatorium Posts: 1,374 Thanks: 21 Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock However, I will also add that the reason Epi doesnt "copy" Gibson headstocks is all about brand differentation. Obviously, patent infringement isnt an issue here since Epi is owned by Gibson in the first place so thats not the reason on whats keeping Epi from putting the same headstock design on its guitars. __________________ 2008 Gibson Les Paul Classic Heritage Cherry 2005 Fender American Standard Stratocaster Triple Sunburst

06-14-2008, 10:20 AM	#17 (permalink)
hbucker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 819 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I don't like the Epiphone headstock. The headstock on my Elitist is better IMO but still not on par with the Gibson headstock. I can live with it though. IMO, Gibson USA is all about making sure you can only get certain features within their own product line. They're very sensitive about diluting the appeal of their specific products. __________________

06-14-2008, 01:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
stryker59 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: staunton, va Posts: 2,480 Thanks: 9 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock i aint much on the epi lp headstock either.....like a point made earlier, the squire strat is the number 1 selling import guitar in the world and fender doesnt put a different headstock design on it! __________________ *you've been weighed, measured, and found wanting!*

06-15-2008, 06:14 AM	#19 (permalink)
Lampens Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 414 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock Isn't it more about tradition? Epiphone used to be a good brand in it's own right before Gibson bought it. Les Paul made his LOG in the epi factory. A lot of great players played epiphone guitars with that epiphone headstock design. I guess that's why they keep it. I still like the gibson design better though lol.

06-15-2008, 06:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
classic Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wild SW of Germany Posts: 712 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock Who's complaining about Epi headstocks ??? ... just kidding ... I guess Gibson is very consequent in their 'headstock policy' ... only a real Gibbo is allowed to use that open book shape ... Exception: The Japanese law seems to tolerate liberally all kinds of headstock shapes ... and we can see that it is also working for Gibson though ... Japan is one of the most important markets for LesPaul-type-guitars or especially for the Gibson brand ... whether there are Tokais or (some) Epi-models or whatever brand which are using the open-book headstock too ... __________________ ****************** Roger ... stay tuned ...

06-16-2008, 04:34 AM	#22 (permalink)
Schtang Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 244 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock Have to agree - the "standard" epi stock is damn ugly - BUT the one on the Sheraton II I really like. The Sheraton II is an all round beautiful guitar including it headstock Last edited by Schtang; 06-16-2008 at 08:39 PM. Reason: George W Bush made me do it

06-16-2008, 03:21 PM	#23 (permalink)
Nils Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 193 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I think the Epi headstock looks good in the "curly" way and the gibson headstock in the minimalistic way So.. I like both The Epi Elitist headstocks I think aren't that pretty though __________________ "are you gonna go for it, or are you gonna give up" Les Paul

06-16-2008, 03:54 PM	#25 (permalink)
LongBeach V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Long Beach Ca. Posts: 2,760 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gibson headstock vs. Epi headstock I see where Epiphone was going with it, but when you "somewhat" copy something, it always seems to end up fugly. Now, on the Fender side of things with Squire, I really dislike the big "Squire" emblem, rather it just be blank. They used big, bold letter's so nobody would confuse the two, even though there the same? right? Saying a Squire isnt a real Fender is like saying a MIM Fender isnt real either? I'm only asking!