An Honest Question re Gibson quality/price

[budg]

I have bought 4 gibsons and the only one that had significant flaws was an es335. Other than that , the others have been good with the exception of the nut slots being a bit narrow.

[92Standard]

Originally Posted by Sparco

Gibson doesn't give a fu*k to anyone. People buy their stuff because of history and that's just how it is. Sure the price they are asking for is stupid. The quality doesn't pair on what you pay. The guys who doesn't have problems on their Gibsons is probably because they have always wanted a Gibson and have always looked for one. Always going in one direction. When you go that way sure you find a nice Gibson guitar, but you have no idea what the hell other companies are doing and what is their price for it. I like only old Gibsons. New ones? fu*k them, I ain't going to be their slave to buy that thing.

But you know, people are different, and some just are willing to pay for that name and they just don't need to think about other companies.

Hell, if they made great guitars in the 50's, as we even say "Holy Grail", then I will get pretty much the same guitar, but new today, right?

What are you saying? I have purchased 4 Gibsons and ALL have been superb instruments with flawless craftsmanship. You seem to be suggesting this is only due to the fact that I ONLY "go in one direction" and I have ALWAYS wanted a Gibson? Concentrating only on Gibson and sure enough do to my extensive research, I obviously found a flawless one. Listen to what you're saying. Makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, shouldn't anyone do their own research/due diligence and search for a guitar that is flawless (why pay for anything less) NO MATTER WHAT BRAND? I did this with my Tele as well.

[Joeydego]

Originally Posted by Sparco

Gibson doesn't give a fu*k to anyone. People buy their stuff because of history and that's just how it is. Sure the price they are asking for is stupid. The quality doesn't pair on what you pay. The guys who doesn't have problems on their Gibsons is probably because they have always wanted a Gibson and have always looked for one. Always going in one direction. When you go that way sure you find a nice Gibson guitar, but you have no idea what the hell other companies are doing and what is their price for it. I like only old Gibsons. New ones? fu*k them, I ain't going to be their slave to buy that thing.

But you know, people are different, and some just are willing to pay for that name and they just don't need to think about other companies.

Hell, if they made great guitars in the 50's, as we even say "Holy Grail", then I will get pretty much the same guitar, but new today, right?

You're right. All I bought was a name. damn. If I only had a real guitar to record and gig with.

[DrewGR]

Originally Posted by 92Standard

What are you saying? I have purchased 4 Gibsons and ALL have been superb instruments with flawless craftsmanship. You seem to be suggesting this is only due to the fact that I ONLY "go in one direction" and I have ALWAYS wanted a Gibson? Concentrating only on Gibson and sure enough do to my extensive research, I obviously found a flawless one. Listen to what you're saying. Makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, shouldn't anyone do their own research/due diligence and search for a guitar that is flawless (why pay for anything less) NO MATTER WHAT BRAND? I did this with my Tele as well.

+1 to that!

Anyone and everyone should search for the best guitar of the model that they like. I couldn't, but that is just because we don't have many here and the ones we do are very overpriced.
Should I buy an EVH because it is of better quality than the Gibson I like? I'll look for the Gibson that I like until I find the one I prefer.

I have a friends Fender Stratocaster Richie Sambora signature sitting in the living room. He let me have it to check it out. It's been here 5 days and I've played it for 10 minutes. Should I start on what is wrong with it?

- The Floyd Rose is not "sitting" properly. I can't play sitting down cause my hand is always on the bridge and I'm using it without a whammy!!!

- It doesn't stay in tune! Just doesn't! I even changed the strings to see if he did a shit job at it. Still nothing! Everything is properly done the same way I restring the LP, which NEVER goes out of tune and it's the "low" end one, and it refuses to stay in tune whatever I do to it.

- The neck is wider than the spot which is bolted on and the difference is colossal!! That should never have passed QC!

- The low and high E strings along with the B sound MUCH louder than the other three, so you have to pick really hard on the other ones to compensate.

- Whammy bar doesn't sit properly on the bridge when on.

- The tone for the bridge humbucker is total crap. Its either too bright or TOO f***ing bright!

Having said that, do I think that Fenders are crap? No, of course not!
But I will say one thing. This is the guy, the owner of the Fender, who a month or so ago said "In this price range buy a Fender! The Studio is crap, the faded is worse! If you want a decent LP you must get a Traditional/Standard!" This is the same guy who came over 5 days ago to jam, he saw my LP for the first time and he played it for like 3 hours while I was stuck with the Strat because he wouldn't give it back. Now he is seriously GASing for an LP Studio.

Look for the model you like and then buy the best one you can find.

[GERRYGTR62]

I'm very familiar with Carvins, since it's right in my area of San Diego---always have been impressed with them, love their stuff, HOWEVER, when it was time for me to buy a new guitar earlier this year, I went Gibson almost immediately, buying a Classic Custom I had to drive up to Los Angeles/Orange County for it---despite a binding issue in the inner cutaway, this thing is a gem, hands down the best Gibson I have ever owned!!

[roodyrocker]

I played a used Carvin at GC recently. It was well built and sounded good. A friend of mine bought a custom bass from them years ago and still has it. The problem comparing Carvin to Gibson is the shear size and volume of Gibson. Same thing applies to other companies. For example, I'm a Jackson fan and the question on that forum comes up all the time as to why there are little to no USA Jacksons hanging on the walls of stores like GC? I talked to someone higher up at the NAMM show a few years ago from Jackson. The reason is that Jackson can not supply them the shear number of guitars they require like Gibson or Fender can without sacrificing quality. So my guess is if you compare Gibson to any smaller builder like Carvin, Jackson, etc... They will likely always come up short due to the nature of mass production. It doesn't mean Gibson is junk, I have several fantastic Les Pauls.

Rudy

[Thumpalumpacus]

I like the Carvins I've played. Neither was really comparable to Gibsons -- they were both DC127 -- and they didn't have the feel of a Gibson. I'm sure that with the quality I saw, the guitars they build with a Gibson feel are competitive. I don't think that really matters, either, because no Gibson fan is going to want one no matter what.

I'm thinking that one of Carvin's kits may be a good guitar to put together, myself.

So, I can only say what I always do: buy what suits your hands, ears, and budget.

[92Standard]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

I like the Carvins I've played. Neither was really comparable to Gibsons -- they were both DC127 -- and they didn't have the feel of a Gibson. I'm sure that with the quality I saw, the guitars they build with a Gibson feel are competitive. I don't think that really matters, either, because Gibson fan is going to want one no matter what. I'm thinking that one of Carvin's kits may be a good guitar to put together.

So, I can only say what I always do: buy what suits your hands, ears, and budget.

That makes way too much sense! We won't have any of that here on MLP!!!

If everyone did that, we'd have no one to flame nor anything to talk about!

[Adambomb]

PRS Guitars has THE best QC know to man (IMHO) and they are in the "Big Three" of high end guitar companies. If they can do it then Gibson sure as hell can. But take a look at Gibson's Executives.. never gonna happen. So you gotta look three times as hard for a good Gibson. I only play before I buy and I feel for the people that don't live within 200 miles of a Gibson dealer since playing a few is seriously important, especially with Gibson. But damn them tones are so smooth from a Les Paul, it's worth the long hard hunt.

[bbutler123]

Originally Posted by rd_artist

I am probably the lone person who doesn't think Gibson currently has a QA issue, I have never had an issue with Gibson Quality,my 50s tribute was purchased sight unseen online and arrived in perfect condition and I thoroughly inspected it when it arrived, my RD Artist bass was purchased brand new back in 1982 (I know Norlin era) but was in great shape and had been sitting in the shop for close to a year,when I go to the music store and play the instruments on the wall I never find an issue with the Gibsons except many times they need a string change, I think that Gibson has bult such a strong reputation especially after the problems associated with the Norlin era, that peoples expectations are much higher than of other brands, yes there are probably some duds out there, remember anything made by a human is bound to have flaws, some add character and some cause issues.

I largely agree. Their cheapest guitars are not as carefully put together as their most expensive, but overall, I'd take even a cheap Gibson over an expensive any-other-guitar. If I buy a bottom of the line LP Studio with faded finish and replace the pickups, and have a luthier work on it for a hundred bucks, it wouldn't be any different for me than a $15,000 Gibson. And that's the way it should be.

In fact, I owned a $15,000 1960 ES 335 (except for the fact that I had added a Bigsby, bought a new case, lacquered the fretboard(like a Fender), etc.) If it had been "intact", it was priced at $15,000. --which is part of the issue--it was no different than an intact 335, except it was BETTER with the smooth fretboard IMO, ha ha ha . But the price goes up for non-quality reasons. I got $3000 for mine, because those unimportant differences had dropped the value by 80%.

I can imagine that some guitars are as good as Gibsons, assuming that Gibson doesn't have a secret, or doesn't have access to SOMETHING that no one else does- which is unlikely.

But I'm just stuck on Gibsons, and I believe in pretty much every one of them. (with a little work done on some.)

[old mark]

First let me state the the overall BEST guitar I have ever owned was a Carvin-the neck and fingerboard is still the absolute best of any guitar I have played since I started in 1962. I have owned several Gibsons, including a late '60's and mid '70's Les Paul Customs. I currently own an '02 LP Special, a '99 SG Special, and a '10 50's Tribute Studio p90. Gibsons are very well made, but IMO are very overpriced for what you get.
Back before the advent of CAM -computer manufacturing processes, which were pioneered in guitar building by Peavey* in the late 1970's- Gibson guitars had s high degree of actual hand work, as did all guitars. Guitars were more hit-or miss, more differences between individual pieces...some very good, some not so great. Gibson was known for being above the average of this-they made more GOOD guitars than not-good guitars. Also, in the 1970's, old guitars became collector's items and fans sought out specific guitars that were played by their "guitar heroes"...shown on fan magazine covers, album covers, etc.
Gibson guitars were very highly sought after because famous players played them.

Sadly, Gibson believed the hype and publicity. I think quality has not improved anywhere near the price increases. Smaller companies, such as Carvin, have HAD to keep quality high to compete with the BIG NAME brands.

I know people will be offended by this. I don't much care. Gibsons today are over priced for their quality. I really prefer the lower end Gibsons-the finish is not my concern so much as playability and sound, and the lower end models are very good in those areas, and I think the high end Gibsons, while they are good guitars, are not worth the money.
Just my opinions, of course.

mark

ADDED * Some of the best playing guitars I own are old US made Peaveys.

[Sparco]

Originally Posted by 92Standard

What are you saying? I have purchased 4 Gibsons and ALL have been superb instruments with flawless craftsmanship. You seem to be suggesting this is only due to the fact that I ONLY "go in one direction" and I have ALWAYS wanted a Gibson? Concentrating only on Gibson and sure enough do to my extensive research, I obviously found a flawless one. Listen to what you're saying. Makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, shouldn't anyone do their own research/due diligence and search for a guitar that is flawless (why pay for anything less) NO MATTER WHAT BRAND? I did this with my Tele as well.

Dude, I'm not totally saying that Gibsons are bad guitars, never have menioned it. All I wanted to say, you got a good Gibson because you wanted a Gibson, you took your reserch and bought one. Sure you will get a quality instrument for that price. But you know what? That "quality" isn't appropriate to the price they are asking. You can improve quality more for that price. Gibson makes A LOT of guitars a day, and they don't have the time to make everything perfect, but for 2 grand they totally should be able to do it. Gibson gets through trouble because of name. There are great Gibson guitars out there... as other companies guitars who are more lonely.

Anyways, the topic is quality/price. Gibson? Quality - yes, Price? - I don't think so. You can find equal quality instruments with more appropriate price. Quality=Time=Price

[Joeydego]

Originally Posted by Sparco

Dude, I'm not totally saying that Gibsons are bad guitars, never have menioned it. All I wanted to say, you got a good Gibson because you wanted a Gibson, you took your reserch and bought one. Sure you will get a quality instrument for that price. But you know what? That "quality" isn't appropriate to the price they are asking. You can improve quality more for that price. Gibson makes A LOT of guitars a day, and they don't have the time to make everything perfect, but for 2 grand they totally should be able to do it. Gibson gets through trouble because of name. There are great Gibson guitars out there... as other companies guitars who are more lonely.

Anyways, the topic is quality/price. Gibson? Quality - yes, Price? - I don't think so. You can find equal quality instruments with more appropriate price. Quality=Time=Price

do you really think 2 grand is a lot of money for a decent guitar?

[voggin]

I sometimes think that it isn't that Gibson is riding on their name, and therefore let QC slip. Rather, I think Gibson's name has the opposite effect on some people: people buy a $2,000 guitar with the Gibson name on it and expect perfection, because of the brand's reputation, and then pick their guitars apart because of perceived "flaws".

I was on TGP the other day (I know, not the perfect sample of players, but let me finish!) and a guy was ranting about his new les paul. After the two paragraph QC rant, he posted pics of the horrors of this new guitar: a slight bleed of finish on the binding up by the top neck/body joint, a rough slot in the nut for the G string and a blemish of some sort on the back (I have to assume it was there, you couldn't see in the picture). So in a way I think his idealized Gibson was so perfect that a real-world guitar couldn't possibly live up to it. Interestingly, he never said a word about how the guitar sounded or played)

As for the comparisons with PRS, at least here in Canada, a PRS is at least a grand more than a Les Paul Traditional, so some of the comparison is unfair. Maybe PRS v. R8 is a better comparison, but I've only played one R8 and can't tell what the quality ratio is (I thought the R8 was the most beautiful guitar I've ever seen, if that helps.)

Disclosure: I own one US Fender Strat, a Gibson 339, a Martin D16 and a PRS SE singlecut, so I'm not "obsessed" with Gibson.

[MikeStevens]

If you find something lacking in pre-made Gibsons then build a custom guitar.

That's what I'm starting to do.

[MineGoes211]

Buy and play what you like. I'm a Gibson player (I have had many different brands over the years), I've had many Gibbys over the last couple of years, and the quality has been top notch. Even the Tribute and Studios Gibsons I own are great.
If you like Carvin, buy a Carvin. If you like Fenders, buy a Fender- no need for haters.

[roeg]

a lot of emphasis here on appearence...for me,How does a Gibson LP.perform?...had a gig on the weekend with former bandmates(not so former now!) at a countryfarmhouse.Took my 1987 Black Standard.Only changes i've made to it is to install a custom set of handwound paf repros.Pedal board all analog.But the amp...1989 JTM45 Re-issue which i've retrofitted with zoso caps(mustard repros) on the circuit board.biased up a set of Valve Art kt66's in concert with a pristine 60's Mullard rectifier tube(GZ34)..nos 60's preamp tubes:Amperex V1,Brimar V2,Dutch Phillips in V3....The Standard has the usual dings associated with 25 years of playing...stayed in tune despite my wild vibrato...amp at 2/3 to 3/4 volume...sounded glorious...bell-like clean or distorted,rich mids,sweet,nice thick crunch,grunt,ripping leads,sustain,controllable feedback,slide playing,it was all there....curled your toes,sounded like every great LesPaul sound you've ever heard...through the right amp most LesPauls can sound rightgeously amazing,if set up properly!(the fingers help!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gibson LesPaul Standard,Black(1987)
Gibson Lespaul Standard,AntiqueSB(1989)
Gibson Lespaul Standard,Wine(1990)
Gibson Lespaul Custom,Cherry SB.(1989)
Timbucker and Seth Lover pickups
Thru Vintage 4-hole Hiwatt DR103's/504's
Marshalls and Fender's
ONLY NOS tubes:Mullard,Phillips,Amperex,RCA,
Sylvania,Siemens,GE,Brimar,Tesla(70's),Telefunken
Martin HD28(2010)
Martin HD28V(2010)

[OBX351]

This post is timely for me. I just sold my 52 vintage hot rod tele and a few other items, so now I have some play money. I was considering another LP but I didn't want to go over $1300. I really couldn't find a Les Paul with P90s and the neck size in my price range. I was pretty surprised at some of the prices being asked. Even the ones that were a year old were within 10% of the new guitar price and all the older ones (not vintage) were way over priced.

I was going to pass on buying a guitar all together until I did a search on PRS McCarty soapbar. I was shocked to find 3 that were at or under $1300 and I just put a deposit on one that I am going to try out later this week. If not I'll get my money back and do the same with one of the other ones that I found.

Long story story short, I wanted a Gibson I might end up getting a PRS because of price. I am not a big fan of $1k - $1.5k new Gibson guitars. They are just not up to par for me. As far as PRS goes, I know that they are high quality guitars that sound great and don't cost huge money. Even though some some of my vintage buddies don't really like PRS guitars I'll give this one a shot. We'll see what happens....

[SnowWhite]

Funny, I can't stand PRS guitars. The don't accommodate to my left hand at all.
I LOVE short scale (24.75) versus the usual scale of the other guitars.
I LOVE the 50's neck.
I LOVE the sound of my LP (is a 2012 studio). It just rocks my world. It sings. Finally I know what they all mean actually when they said "it sings".
My LP doesn't have a flaw, just a minor cosmetic thing (bought it used).
I bought it without seeing it live, playing it, just ordered it and took a leap of faith.
I LOVE my LP. Period.
That doesn't mean Carvin or PRS are up to par, I don't care. I just don't like PRS at all, and Carvin, when will I be able to test a Carvin? Probably never, so I don't care (besides, the only shape I like for a guitar is an LP shape, and their
intention of copying it is not to my taste).
I just know I found a great guitar, which I hope will die with me. That much I like it.

Like some said already, if you tried a different guitar, and let's you express what you want/need, be my guest. I don't care if it's a Chinese fake. It's your guitar. It's your art. And if you just are a bedroom player... stfu.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

do you really think 2 grand is a lot of money for a decent guitar?

my epis are decent guitars...for two grand i would expect better.i played a $1000 gibby SG last month that the nut was so high on it was ridiculous.made my epis look really good.

[Obsequio]

I know what you're asking here and it's a question that's hard for me to gauge. Do I wish Gibson Les Paul were less expensive? Yes! Can that change? Will that change? No.

You compared the quality with Carvin. Although I've never played one, I can guarantee you the Carvin will not sound like a Les Paul. It doesn't matter if you think it sounds better, it matters whether it sounds like a Les Paul and is a Les Paul and there is only one Les Paul.

Their quality and standard is unique to them and their values seem to hold up on the upper end. Let's face it special guitars are limited and people will always pay for that quality in the future. I don't know what the future holds for the values of Standards and Traditionals, hopefully it will be high. The Reissues seem to be whether the money is right now though.

Everyone talks about there being some dogs in the line and that you have to find a 'good one', but lets face it, even a dog of a Les Paul it far above other guitars and provides that distinct Les Paul sound.

I don't think people are going to turn around in 50 years and say, "You know what Les Pauls actually suck and they should have never cost this much" They have set a tried standard and I don't think its an accident that they are as popular as they are. It is that it is.

The question is which instrument provides the best musicality and style. So far Gibson has been one of the answers as the best of them.

[Pinkie]

Have had some great Gibsons and some bad ones when it came time to sell them I gat a more than fair price.
Had an outstanding Carvin TL60 with every option when it came time to sell lost my shirt on it.No resale value.

[SheffPaul]

I love all my Gibsons, but have had one or two issues over the years with ones I have owned. Owning a Gibson is a bit like buying a Mercedes - to some extent you are paying for the badge, but you also expect a top-quality product. I can't imagine there are many Mercedes with faulty paintwork or parts that don't quite fit properly. Gibson should aim to have the same quality standards.

[SnowWhite]

Also, I think if there was indeed a quality issue... they would go out of business.
So, I don't think so.

[KenG]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

do you really think 2 grand is a lot of money for a decent guitar?

A lot of people haven't kept up with the inflation and cost of items, so yes some do think 2K is a heck of a lot of money but in reality it's not. It'll buy a decent set of golf clubs or a general 1yr membership on a average golf course. It's a killer set of rims and tires for a car, it's 1 months mortgage payment or less than a single 2 week paycheck after taxes. Some people want to pay 70's prices today,40 years later, go figure!

[TerribleRacket]

Originally Posted by River

If an authorized Gibson dealer is knowingly selling a lemon, they're as much to blame as anyone at the factory.

I think that's a very good point and I strongly agree. But the fact is, you don't want to be using your retailers as part of your QC cycle, it's hugely wasteful in terms of labor, materials, logistics, and is terrible PR--lemons pool up at the retail level. If I remember correctly, didn't one of the Big Three call this "downstream quality assurance" in the '70's? That is, you rectified your manufacturing defect rate at the dealership.

I don't think Gibson's defect rate is quite as bad as it's frequently reported to be. On the other hand, their defect rate clearly could be much better.

A high defect rate hasn't kept Mercedes Benz from being considered an outstanding brand, and I'm sure the same customer logic works for Gibson.

[dspelman]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

do you really think 2 grand is a lot of money for a decent guitar?

For a "decent" guitar, the answer's probably yes. Or maybe.

The difficulty comes in evaluating the intangibles.

I can pick up a solid mahogany bodied LP shaped guitar (solid maple top) with as good or better specs (ebony f/b, real MOP inlays, triple binding on body and headstock) than a standard Les Paul for $600. It'll have very good fretwork and playability and AlnicoV pickups and decent electronics. That's from one manufacturer.

I can pick up a better guitar, with smoothed neck heel, great fretwork, better woods than the Gibsons, a real ebony fretboard, real MOP or Abalone inlays and an insanely figured top for about $1400 (or a plain one for about $300 less).

In any objective comparison, either of these guitars will more than match a $2000 Gibson for quality and features, though there are minor differences.

One of the intangibles is the Gibson headstock and name. One is a finish that starts out toxic to the atmosphere and carcinogenic to the workers that apply it, and that discolors, checks, cracks and eventually outgasses substances that help corrode the metal parts on the guitar. Another is its history as one of the most used electric guitars in music history.

It's not sound -- both of the other guitars can pull off the same sound.

So the answer to the question is probably yes, $2 grand is a lot of money for a decent guitar, given the economies of current production technology. Half again that will get you a completely from-scratch-built custom from a number of sources, but it will get you a slightly upscale production model from Gibson. It's difficult to tell what's actually upscale about it other than the price, but there you go.

[Adambomb]

Originally Posted by Obsequio

You compared the quality with Carvin. Although I've never played one, I can guarantee you the Carvin will not sound like a Les Paul. It doesn't matter if you think it sounds better, it matters whether it sounds like a Les Paul and is a Les Paul and there is only one Les Paul.

This is too funny. Never played a Carvin so you don't know what they sound like... BUT you can guarantee they wont have a certain sound (LP tone). I have played Carvins and I'm not saying they do or can't sound like LP's, but was funny you knew that without ever playing one. Oh and it "Doesn't matter if he thinks a guitar sounds better, it matters whether it sounds like a LP???" LOL, So a better sounding guitar doesn't matter if it's not a Les Paul? And yea if he thinks another guitar sounds better, shame on him and sorry it offends you. If it ount say Ibson on da ed stock ya kno it dont sownd gooo.

[Malikon]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

do you really think 2 grand is a lot of money for a decent guitar?

Yes I think $2,000. is a lot of money period.

Originally Posted by voggin

I sometimes think that it isn't that Gibson is riding on their name, and therefore let QC slip. Rather, I think Gibson's name has the opposite effect on some people: people buy a $2,000 guitar with the Gibson name on it and expect perfection, because of the brand's reputation, and then pick their guitars apart because of perceived "flaws".

it's the price though. If you buy a $500. guitar and there's a spot on the binding? Who cares,..really.

When you pay 4x that amount, yeah you want it to be as close to perfect as possible. That's what the brand and reputation is supposed to be known for.

There are people that save up years to afford a Gibson. I know with me I saved up to get the money for a faded studio,..then I start thinking, "for a little more I could get this slightly upgraded model."

And that keeps happening, it creeps up through the Studios until you're looking at Classic Customs, then Trad Pros, then Trads,...(for me I stop at Traditionals, I'd like a goldtop and a plus top some day.)

But for me that's a lot of money that will take years to put aside for those 2 guitars.

So you've gotta think every month that goes by there's that little voice going, "Hey you've got X amount of dollars,..you could get this other guitar RIGHT NOW!" And you have to keep telling yourself, "no I'm saving for THE BIG ONE!"

Oh,...I could get a faded studio now!
No,..keep saving
Oh,....I could get a Studio Pro now!
No,...keep saving

and this goes on and on, month after month, possibly year after year.

So yeah when the day finally comes that I can drop down all the money in full and buy a Trad Plus top?

That thing better be perfect. I wouldn't settle for funky binding, orange peel finish, mystery chunks in the finish, paint on the binding,....none of that stuff.

And I have seen all that on new Gibson guitars in the past 6 months.

as for me? I'm still saving.

I went to the local stores to buy a Faded Studio a few months ago and tried all the brown ones I could get my hands on. All of them had some issue or another that kept me from purchasing it. So I ended up just getting a nice 2x12 tube amp.

Now I'm saving again for a Faded Studio and I'll start looking at them again in a few months.

I don't think of it as being too picky though. It is what it is. When your reputation is supposed to be that you're the best and the best quality. I want to see and feel that when I pick up the guitar.

[Joeydego]

2 grand is right around middle of the road for Gibson. You'll spend double or triple that on their high end. You can also spend less than 500 on their entry level made in USA guitar. Anyone who thinks 600 bucks with get them a guitar that looks, feels plays and most important sounds like a standard has no reason to bitch: simply purchase that guitar and save yourself 1400 bucks. Truth is the 2 guitars aren't even close. If you want mass produced cookie cutter instruments with little handmade craftsmanship, their are plenty of choices. Gibson isn't the guitar for you. If you want an excellent sounding, looking and playing instrument at a fair price made almost entirely by hand, buy a Gibson. If you take your playing seriously, then you ought to have a serious guitar. All my guitars are serious and besides my resonator they're all upwards of 1500 bucks, many of them were over 3 grand. I feel my playing is worth it. Either way, I see no reason to moan about any of this. There are dozens of viable options. I suggest going to THEIR message boards and praise THOSE guitars. Lifes too short to bitch about a product that doesn't meet your needs.