Poll Do long tenon necks make a difference?

[lp59aholicDon]

For those who have R models and other Re Issues with or without one, Do you think they make a tone diffference and improvement

[Axeman16]

i played an r9 and the sound was different from my classic but that wold be the electronics and i found the sustain wasnt improved compared to my lp classic

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

For those who have R models and other Re Issues with or without one, Do you think they make a tone diffference and improvement

i wish there was an "i have no idea what tenon necks are" option

is it just the same as a regular neck?

[BOBBO]

Man .. Do I have to do everything for you people !! Here is a picture of a long tenon neck vs a short tenon !! The tenon is the piece of wood that is glued into the neck cavity , The longer the neck joint or TENON the more wood is in contact with the guitars vibrating body which translates into a guitar that has more resonance and sustain !!

[Axeman16]

its an extension into the neck cavity. it creates better wood to wood contact, and sopposed to create more sustain.
http://www.pisotones.com/Elias/LP-Custom/Tenons.jpg
the short is in regular production usa lp's and long is used in the custom shop. te transitional was used in so early 80's greco's and burny's. sometimes referred to as a medium tenon.

[MIDNIGHT]

thanks for the added knowlede

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by midnightdreamer

i wish there was an "i have no idea what tenon necks are" option

is it just the same as a regular neck?

Jason, You I am sure have seen em, in all the pics you ask for being posted ect, The long neck tenon comes into the front pickup cavity, On Max's they sorta look like rounded smiley faces

[BOBBO]

Here are a 58 Goldtop and a 59 Burst showing the long tenon extending into the neck pickup cavity !

[rockinlespaul]

Absolutely, it makes a difference!

[ashbass]

Originally Posted by bobbovisme

Man .. Do I have to do everything for you people !!

How about this jem:

http://www.dominocs.com/Gibson/gen/necktenons.mov

[alpinestudio]

Are the epiphone elitist series lp's have the long tenon neck?

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by ashbass

How about this jem:

http://www.dominocs.com/Gibson/gen/necktenons.mov

Great video Ashbass !! I've actually seen it already but it gives a great explanation of long vs short tenon's !

[hbucker]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

Are the epiphone elitist series lp's have the long tenon neck?

Yes. The Elitists have a long neck tenon.

[johnreardon]

For me, any, if any, difference is miniscule.

[chrisj1602]

Does anybody know if there is a definitive reason as to why it was changed? I've never tried a long tenon LP so I wouldn't know if there was a difference, but surely it is hard to compare the difference tenon length makes to a guitar, when the guitars compared have too many other variables. As mentioned above, a R9 vs Classic. There are numerous other factors to influence the tone/sustain.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by chrisj1602

Does anybody know if there is a definitive reason as to why it was changed? I've never tried a long tenon LP so I wouldn't know if there was a difference, but surely it is hard to compare the difference tenon length makes to a guitar, when the guitars compared have too many other variables. As mentioned above, a R9 vs Classic. There are numerous other factors to influence the tone/sustain.

Having played many from Vintage 50s to present, I do and have found alot of differences, I just think that with more wood to wood contact between neck and body, and the neck being seated deeper the whole resonance of the guitar is improved. also I hear far less muddiness in the low end of the neck I have now owned about an equal amount of long tenon vs short and I will strive to stay long tenon , My past Greco, and Orvilles all had them as well as the Orville and Gibson LP I presently have . Ed Roman , who has built and repaired guitars for years believes there is a big difference

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by chrisj1602

Does anybody know if there is a definitive reason as to why it was changed? I've never tried a long tenon LP so I wouldn't know if there was a difference, but surely it is hard to compare the difference tenon length makes to a guitar, when the guitars compared have too many other variables. As mentioned above, a R9 vs Classic. There are numerous other factors to influence the tone/sustain.

It was changed because the Norlin money monster said to !! ... Easier and cheaper to make hence more $$ for the suits to divvy up !

[classic]

Originally Posted by ashbass

How about this jem:

http://www.dominocs.com/Gibson/gen/necktenons.mov

What have I to do to look at this video ??? There's nothing when clicking the link ...

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by bobbovisme

It was changed because the Norlin money monster said to !! ... Easier and cheaper to make hence more $$ for the suits to divvy up !

Mucho Correcto Bobbovis . Norlin, the "Parts is Parts" guitar corporation

[diceman]

I'm not an expert by any means, but my Epi Elitist has the long tenon, and I can "feel" more resonance in the body on it than I could on my Gibson LP Studio or any of my Epiphones (which on the Epis is probably mostly due to quality of materials). So, my lack of vast experience aside, I really do feel the difference.

[Kramble]

You bet they make a difference: they're longer !

[dwagar]

IMO it makes a difference if you want the vintage feel (resonance) and tone. Remember, the short tenon has been around since (I think) '75, so it may not matter at all to 99% of the players.

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by dwagar

IMO it makes a difference if you want the vintage feel (resonance) and tone. Remember, the short tenon has been around since (I think) '75, so it may not matter at all to 99% of the players.

The short tenon is around so long people don't know the difference

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by dwagar

IMO it makes a difference if you want the vintage feel (resonance) and tone. Remember, the short tenon has been around since (I think) '75, so it may not matter at all to 99% of the players.

Shorter Tenons actually began in 68 when they started making Les Pauls again and steadily decreased in size for the most part, the 71-72 misnomered 58/ 54 re issues had a longer wider tenon than the newer Nashville Norlin models . Norlin took control from CMI in 69-70 The aforementioned re issues though were made in Kalamazoo

[alpinestudio]

Originally Posted by hbucker

Yes. The Elitists have a long neck tenon.

That's a sweet looking elitist!

[dwagar]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Shorter Tenons actually began in 68 when they started making Les Pauls again and steadily decreased in size for the most part, the 71-72 misnomered 58/ 54 re issues had a longer wider tenon than the newer Nashville Norlin models . Norlin took control from CMI in 69-70 The aforementioned re issues though were made in Kalamazoo

The transitional tenon (aka modified long tenon) was used through '74 and into '75. I've seen a picture of a '75 maple neck with trans tenon. Somewhere in '75 it disappeared into the short rocker style tenon. The modified long tenon is basically a long tenon with the tongue cut back.

I'm not so sure that the big issue here is long or short tenon. In my opinion, there are other things, not the least of which is the grade of wood, that probably has a greater impact on the overall guitar.

Do I think that it makes a difference? Probably, but does it really matter? To those who either don't like, or cannot afford a Historic, they don't have much of a choice, right?

As far as "sustain"? I think that the long tenon has done a pretty good job of sustaining countless threads and debate. It's also sustained discontent to those who may have just dropped $1,900.00 on a production LP, only to find that their new purchase is viewed by some as substandard. Most importantly, it's one of the contributing factors to Gibson's ability to sustain a market for a guitar that sells for ridiculous money. Yes, I said ridiculous money! Not only do I think that $3,000.00 for an R7 or R8 is ridiculous, but an additional $2,500.00 for nothing more than a flame maple cap on an R9 or R0 is ridiculous beyond all ridiculousness.

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by KennyF

I'm not so sure that the big issue here is long or short tenon. In my opinion, there are other things, not the least of which is the grade of wood, that probably has a greater impact on the overall guitar.

Do I think that it makes a difference? Probably, but does it really matter? To those who either don't like, or cannot afford a Historic, they don't have much of a choice, right?

As far as "sustain"? I think that the long tenon has done a pretty good job of sustaining countless threads and debate. It's also sustained discontent to those who may have just dropped $1,900.00 on a production LP, only to find that their new purchase is viewed by some as substandard. Most importantly, it's one of the contributing factors to Gibson's ability to sustain a market for a guitar that sells for ridiculous money. Yes, I said ridiculous money! Not only do I think that $3,000.00 for an R7 or R8 is ridiculous, but an additional $2,500.00 for nothing more than a flame maple cap on an R9 or R0 is ridiculous beyond all ridiculousness.

Some very valid points the most relavant being that Gibson seems to be using better tone woods in Historics but I would have to say that the long tenon is a huge part of why Historics sound and sustain better than LP Standards ! As far as the money issue , I'll pay whatever it takes to get the tone I'm after !!!

Originally Posted by BOBBO

Some very valid points the most relavant being that Gibson seems to be using better tone woods in Historics but I would have to say that the long tenon is a huge part of why Historics sound and sustain better than LP Standards !

In the absence of any examples for comparison, i.e. a USA production LP with a long tenon, or a Historic LP with a short tenon, we'll never know.

Originally Posted by BOBBO

As far as the money issue , I'll pay whatever it takes to get the tone I'm after!!!

Flame maple has better tone?

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by KennyF

In the absence of any examples for comparison, i.e. a USA production LP with a long tenon, or a Historic LP with a short tenon, we'll never know.



Flame maple has better tone?

I'm actually a plaintop fan !! I had many LP's over the years and owned a Standard at the same time I had my Historic and the R8 and much better tone and sustain !! I A/B'ed them many times and the standard never came close !! So off it went into the land of Ebay !