Should I be disappointed by a Standard finish?

[Joedotcom]

Hi guys,

This is my first time on the forum.
So here's the deal - I have been slightly obsessed by Les Pauls since I was 16. I'm now 34 and started playing guitar again a year ago after a 14 year hiatus. Anyway, I've decided that I am just going to go for it and buy my first LP. You only live once, right?
I have settled on an 08 Standard and love the feel and tone, but I have to admit to being slightly disappointed with the finishes that I have seen. I'm going to be spending £2k on a guitar which I hope to keep for ever, but the Epiphones look better for £400.
So, am I right to be so fussy for this budget? Do Les Paul's simply just not look as good as they used to? Is there much variation between individual models?
Should I be considering the second-hand market to get that right balance of tone and looks?
Help - I can't get this wrong!!
Cheers,
Joe

[guitarnut_germany]

the epis might look better because they might have e maple veneer (or photoflame.. and not a solid top which is much harder to source flamed)

If I were you I'd buy a used 90's standard. Maybe a classic premium plus (they have very nice tops)
I wouldn't buy any standard from 2008 onwards (they made a new standard model in 2008 which I'm not convinced of..)

You might consider Hamer USA guitars as well (used), they build unbelievable quality for ... any money really, but they cost LESS far less than Gibson or all the other big names. Spectacular tops, finish... top notch.

Jap. LPs are great as well - high end tokais (from ls120 onwards), ESP made in japan non ltd line, ESP navigator, Edwards... all far better than standard USA LPs IMO.

[DanL]

I agree you can't go wrong with an early 90's standard! But I would stay away from newer standards, especially if you want a more classic tone. Have you looked at traditional plus models? They have flame tops, vintage vibes, and I've seen some very subtle burst finishes on them which I guess is what you're saying you're dissatisfied with on most standards. Could you show us a picture of what you mean by a good looking les paul? maybe that would help.

[immgr]

Joedotcom,

I just bought a new (2012) manufacture of the 2008 standard.
NGD! - 2012 Les Paul Standard - Desert Burst
I had to look a few months, but I can tell you that I am 100% happy with my finish. The finish looks much better in person than in the pictures. In fact, the whole experience (tone, looks, quality) has been fantastic for this guitar. I know that others' recent experiences may not have been as good, but I couldn't be more pleased.

Gary

[HOT-BRIT]

look for a 70's Les Paul they are great players and will be a good investment for the future, for more info check the Norlin era sub section here on the forum

[ACELUEK]

I have Les Pauls from 2010 - 2012 and the look and sound pretty darn good. The Traditional Plus is a great guitar for less than $2k..

[lespaulocaster]

You're spending 2K. You're allowed to be fussy. Play and hold every LP you can get your hands on and then decide. No need to rush into anything.

[tampa898]

You can find very nice LP's you just have to keep looking. I seen a brand new standard the other day in Tobacco and the finish was stunning.

[BuzzHaze]

I would have to agree with Hot-Brit, go out an find a nice clean 70's or early 80's LP. I have a 1980 which is amazing in every dept. It plays smooth and true, it sounds sweet and full with the Shaw PU"s and the build is almost perfect. It's in mint condition and I got it for $2500 CND. It's better than any of the new LP's I had tried out over a 2 month period and I could have bought either with $2500. I chose the 80.

The finish they use on the EPi's is a lot shinier than an LP. I think they use a different method, like Strats....maybe a poly finish? not sure.

[AngryHatter]

Wear a blindfold and pick the one that feels and plays the best.
Choosing a guitar by its paintjob is kinda silly.

[ToneasaurusRex]

Originally Posted by Joedotcom

Hi guys,

This is my first time on the forum.
. . . So, am I right to be so fussy for this budget? Do Les Paul's simply just not look as good as they used to? Is there much variation between individual models? . . .

Hey there Joe, welcome to MLP. I also started to play guitar as a teen, didn't follow through, and came back to it in adulthood. You have the right to be as disappointed or as critical a buyer as you want to be. It's your money. I'd say to just play as many guitars as you can get your hands on. There are indeed variations out there in Les Paul land, in finish and neck carve.

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

Wear a blindfold and pick the one that feels and plays the best.
Choosing a guitar by its paintjob is kinda silly.

I mostly agree with this, but almost all of us have been attracted to an instrument because of its beauty. And we very often make irrational buying decisions, which is really okay as long as we're happy.

Peace

Rex

[old mark]

OP, 2 thousand Pounds, given that a Pound is around $1.60, is a lot of money for a guitar you are not in love with.

Keep looking.

I have no doubt you can find a really fine older-even a '70's or '80's- Les Paul for that money, and since you have had the fever for so long, and obviously will keep that LP for many years, I would not settle for anything less than love.

My dad gave me this advice about buying a house...Buy one you LOVE, because if you don't love it, you will eventually come to hate it.

Same thing applies here, IMO.

Keep looking and try a lot of them...one will speak to you. That's the one.

mark

[AngryHatter]

Originally Posted by ToneasaurusRex

Hey there Joe, welcome to MLP. I also started to play guitar as a teen, didn't follow through, and came back to it in adulthood. You have the right to be as disappointed or as critical a buyer as you want to be. It's your money. I'd say to just play as many guitars as you can get your hands on. There are indeed variations out there in Les Paul land, in finish and neck carve.



I mostly agree with this, but almost all of us have been attracted to an instrument because of its beauty. And we very often make irrational buying decisions, which is really okay as long as we're happy.

Peace

Rex

Yep, but it is a pitfall, pride etc.
And has zero to do with music.
I have never been to a club and heard compliments given to a guitar, the player, sure, but the finish?

The best musical buying experience I had was just using my ears. My eyes would have steered me to something else.

When I was 15, looks mattered much more than they do, now.

[AxeBuilder]

Can you elaborate? What is it about the finish that you don't like? Gloss? Wood grain?

[WinterOrb]

Epiphone uses photo flames, that's why they appear to match better. I bought my 08 Standard and didn't look back. I've owned a few Epicraps in my day.

Originally Posted by DanL

But I would stay away from newer standards, especially if you want a more classic tone.

I would love to know what a "more classic tone" is. Because I know when I tried out a Traditional vs my 08 Standard all I heard was mud. I went in thinking I would buy a Trad because it's cheaper, but came out with my standard because in comparison (to my ears) it sounded leaps better.

[LouieTM]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Don't lose sight of the fact that it's a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT more than a showpiece.

And yes, definitely buy used.

[Pinkie]

My 03 Std is a great guitar tone and looks.No finish issues at all but the last year for plasticizer free nitro

[AngryHatter]

Originally Posted by WinterOrb

Epiphone uses photo flames, that's why they appear to match better. I bought my 08 Standard and didn't look back. I've owned a few Epicraps in my day.



I would love to know what a "more classic tone" is. Because I know when I tried out a Traditional vs my 08 Standard all I heard was mud. I went in thinking I would buy a Trad because it's cheaper, but came out with my standard because in comparison (to my ears) it sounded leaps better.

Epi does that?
Do you recall Fender and the foto flame? It was a disaster.

[Johnland82]

I was dead set against buying a gold top of any kind. I truly truly disliked the color...

Then... I played like 20+ lps... and the best sounding and feeling one out of the lot was a classic custom gold top. I couldn't resist, I bought it. Now, I love how it looks.

Kind of odd how that works. I say play them even though you don't like the finish. You never know exactly what you want until you do.

[ehamady6]

Many players will marginalize looks, but I think a 2k guitar should both sound and look good. I'd never buy a guitar that didn't look killer to me. Seeing a beautiful guitar in the stand makes me wan't to pick it up and play it even more. Just my $.02.

If you buy a guitar that has awesome tone and a mediocre finish, the next day you'll come across another with that same awesome tone but with an excellent finish. My Custom found me and your #1 will find you if you have the patience.

[HOT-BRIT]

Originally Posted by straycat

my 03 std is a great guitar tone and looks.no finish issues at all but the last year for plasticizer free nitro

plasticsizers were added to the nitro lacquer in the 70's and has been that way ever since

[HOT-BRIT]

Epiphone uses a thicker polyurethane finish which is completely different to the nitro lacquer Gibson uses

[Leendrix]

Sure, an aesthetically pleasing guitar is great. But once you look with your ears and hands, and it still "sounds" awesome, you don't care about the look of it.

[TheImmaterial]

Surrey you say? Might be worth paying these guys a visit to try things out (although their prices compared to other places always seem a little higher so might want to try and haggle things down if you do decide to buy).

Guitar Village UK | Home

[rockerbsbn]

if your dissatisfied with the looks, don't get it. I'm sure you can find another LP that looks like you want it to and plays just as well or better! Not worth spending 2k on something you'd look at and think "ew.."

[TerribleRacket]

Granted, you're in the UK, so this may goof up the price point, but you may want to look into Heritage guitars if you want a faultless finish. Heritage is the old Gibson Kalamazoo plant, purchased by the craftsmen that didn't want to relocate to Nashville.

Under the Heritage label, they continue to make outstanding hand-made instruments, often with the old Gibson tooling. In general, you'll be getting Custom Shop quality at slightly above LP Standard prices. Heritage is hard to beat, dollar for dollar.

[RedSkwirrell]

Hi Joe,

I'm in Surrey too.
It took me two years of playing LP's all over the South of England every weekend to find one I liked.
They are out there but you're after one of the 2%.
If you shoot me an IM I can point you in the direction of the best places I go to for retail LP's.
A top finish on a Les Paul does usually cost though, new or used.
The 1990 in my sig is a Standard but was finished by the Custom Shop.
I was lucky and got it for the same price as a normal one from a dealer who'd given up trying to sell it (and it's partner).
It had a deep neck profile, which was out of fashion at the time.
It isn't especially highly figured, which is what appealed to me at the time.
If you want a pretty Standard for a standard price, this is the kind of thing to look out for.
If you want it prettier, you're looking at Heritage, Re-Issues, or Customs. And expense.
For me, while still very important, the top takes second-place to tone and feel.
Getting all three to match up is the trick.

[Joedotcom]

Originally Posted by tampa898

You can find very nice LP's you just have to keep looking. I seen a brand new standard the other day in Tobacco and the finish was stunning.

I think tobacco is my favourite

[Joedotcom]

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

Wear a blindfold and pick the one that feels and plays the best.
Choosing a guitar by its paintjob is kinda silly.

But I need to feel a bit in love with it when it is hanging on the wall too

[Joedotcom]

Originally Posted by AxeBuilder

Can you elaborate? What is it about the finish that you don't like? Gloss? Wood grain?

I guess I expected a bit more exciting flame action? It all looks a bit 2D if that makes sense. Lack of depth