A Les Paul Custom built with Richlite!!!

[Luckynumber3]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Well, what you heard is wrong, I think. I mean, it's entirely possible that the Justice Department or FWS has issued such an illegal order aimed at Gibson alone, but I doubt that it happened, considering that Gibson hasn't appealed this alleged "order".

Do you think Henry would've had his press conference and not mentioned such an overreach of power? After all, such a claim would support his narrative of the issue perfectly ("American company persecuted by Federal government!"). Why not say that it happened, if it did? No mention of it in this interview, either. Indeed, Henry goes out of his way to state that they had no communication with the Government at all prior to the August raid.

No, it's nonsense that Gibson was told any such thing, I think. Without a srouce, I'd discount such a claim.

1. How come I am the only person who supposedly read this right on mlp in the middle of a thread?

2. Everything I am referring to was the shut down after the most recent raid.

I admit, my memory must be pretty corrupted if Gibson did not build guitars for several weeks after the raid/ build guitars out of other materials than rosewood after it. I am pretty sure that was what happened, and I heard (both after it happened and recently) that gibson was told to shut down production while charges/ the investigation was pending. This was what I meant.

Originally Posted by budg

I agree with you.I have yet to find clear facts about either raid.I am reserving judgement at this time. As far as all the different threads, alot of it is nothing more than piling on from people that know noting more than Gibson has deviated from the norm. Most of these people havent even played a richlite board .All they know is it isnt ebony.I played my Midtown before I even knew what it was and I was impressed enough that I bought it.

Yeah, I am pretty stressed from other stuff and came over to read mlp to relax, then I start reading stuff like gold paint making a les paul sound different, a bunch of people arguing nitro vs. poly (some guy says he stripped a poly guitar and put nitro on it and the sound changed, another says they did the same thing but no change, then others who have zero experience start debating ), and then, to top it off, I read another thread introducing two "brand new" guitars that have been talked about in mutiple threads over the past few weeks and it is just like "."

Of course, every time there is a new thread about the same guitar, people instantly say "I will never buy that- gibson wants too much money!" then you look around and go "hmm, it doesn't even say how much it will cost..." Then you have people saying it sucks but never tried it, and the whole cycle repeats and repeats and repeats.

I guess that is why I just normally stick with the backstage- it seems that literally half the threads I see on here are copies of something that was discussed only days before, and all of it is arguing by people that have no experience with the product they are debating and don't even know the whole story.

And for the whole raid thing, as I said, I have heard a bunch of different conclusions in different threads, and it seems like everybody will reach an agreement in one then somehow everybody else reaches an entire different conclusion in another thread.

Anyways, I just can't think right now, so i'll go do something else.

[Vintage_Burster]

I've ranted about 'Who gives two shits about 2 ply Rosewood'...but taking the Ebony away from a Custom? Eh, thats a bit far.

What is Gibsons deal? Everyone else is doing fine with Ebony?

[JB6464]

Originally Posted by Vintage_Burster

I've ranted about 'Who gives two shits about 2 ply Rosewood'...but taking the Ebony away from a Custom? Eh, thats a bit far.

What is Gibsons deal? Everyone else is doing fine with Ebony?

Bad management,lol.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber3

1. How come I am the only person who supposedly read this right on mlp in the middle of a thread?

That doesn't matter. None of the parties involved are saying what you're reporting. The legal maneuvers don't reflect such an illegal order. The Constitution doesn't permit it. If you wish to argue that it still happened, that's fine. But without evidence, I'm unconvinced.

2. Everything I am referring to was the shut down after the most recent raid.

I admit, my memory must be pretty corrupted if Gibson did not build guitars for several weeks after the raid/ build guitars out of other materials than rosewood after it. I am pretty sure that was what happened, and I heard (both after it happened and recently) that gibson was told to shut down production while charges/ the investigation was pending. This was what I meant.

Gibson has used both rosewood and ebony after both of those raids. They shut down the factory for a week or so after the last raid. What that has to do with the materials Gibson was allegedly told to avoid doesn't seem apparent to me. Gibson also started using other materials after the last raid; but that is not evidence that they were ordered to avoid rosewood or ebony, any more than going on a diet is evidence that your best friend is acting on doctor's orders.

And for the whole raid thing, as I said, I have heard a bunch of different conclusions in different threads, and it seems like everybody will reach an agreement in one then somehow everybody else reaches an entire different conclusion in another thread.

Of course. No one here knows their ass from third base about what is going on, and if they do, they are probably under a lawyer's orders to keep their mouth shut.

Anyways, I just can't think right now, so i'll go do something else.

Don't get worked up over it, man. It's just a discussion.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by JB6464

Bad management,lol.

Most likely answer, right here.

[Inside Guy]

Originally Posted by ed1996

Those who have tried richlite have said it's a fantastic fretboard material. Everyone else complains about it.

No Kidding. I believe Richlite is an awesome material and better to refret than an Ebony fingerboard.

All the haters out there are un-informed haters. Sorry but it's true.

and to all the cost accountants out there: Tell us: What is the cost difference between and Ebony fingerboard and a Richlite fingerboard?

After you answer, I'll let you know if you are right or not.

[Luckynumber3]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Don't get worked up over it, man. It's just a discussion.

I know- I was fine this week, got all my stuff finished. Then I found out that over the course of 1 weekend, I had a 4-6 page paper to write, a 350 page book to read, and another test/ 30 pages reading online.

I had to take a break and go visit mlp because my mind is about ready to explode, lol.

[jlb32]

Originally Posted by JB6464

Bad management,lol.

Non of us know the real reasons for all the changes and probably never will. My take on it is either Henry is thinking he will outsmart everyone and just not deal with the hassles of one piece Indian rosewood and ebony (bypass the Lacey Act and be first in the new evolution of woods used by guitar manufacturers) or the FED is really restricting Gibson in a manner that makes it difficult for them to get the rosewood and ebony in the quantities they have always used.

I just think it's kind of silly to take some of your long time highest thought of Custom Shop models and start doing variations of them overnight.

Whatever the reason for the change I know Gibson feels they still need to produce the "Custom" but IMO if this isn't going to be a permanent change then they should just lay off the "Custom" for now and do these Custom Shop variations under a different name with a different headstock logo. They would still sell and IMO probably more than these "Custom" variations. Now if these changes are permanent then I guess it really doesn't matter.

[irocdave12]

Gibson released that statement a few weeks ago talking about mainly the rosewood issues but it did have a line in it stating that they did have ebony and would contiune to make guitars with it. Maybe something has changed since they issued that FAQ about the wood. Here is the line directly from the statement so I can't understand why the one model known for ebony would have it not used on it

Will Gibson make guitars with ebony fingerboards?

Yes, Gibson is making a number of models with ebony today, such as the new Custom Division's Les Paul Custom Ace Frehley model. Several models from Montana have ebony and our Memphis division is using ebony for some of its legendary guitars. We have the ebony we need for production.

Here is the link to the full statement for anyone who hasnt seen it yet
http://www2.gibson.com/Support/FAQ-Tonewoods.aspx

[jlb32]

Originally Posted by irocdave12

Gibson released that statement a few weeks ago talking about mainly the rosewood issues but it did have a line in it stating that they did have ebony and would contiune to make guitars with it. Maybe something has changed since they issued that FAQ about the wood. Here is the line directly from the statement so I can't understand why the one model known for ebony would have it not used on it

Will Gibson make guitars with ebony fingerboards?

Yes, Gibson is making a number of models with ebony today, such as the new Custom Division's Les Paul Custom Ace Frehley model. Several models from Montana have ebony and our Memphis division is using ebony for some of its legendary guitars. We have the ebony we need for production.

Here is the link to the full statement for anyone who hasnt seen it yet
Gibson Guitar: Frequently asked questions about Tone Woods

Yeah, I remember seeing that. Obviously something has changed because right after that statement I had 3 dealers tell me Gibson was out of ebony and it didn't look like any coming in the near future. Who knows???

[irocdave12]

Originally Posted by jlb32

Yeah, I remember seeing that. Obviously something has changed because right after that statement I had 3 dealers tell me Gibson was out of ebony and it didn't look like any coming in the near future. Who knows???

Well I'm betting Gibson at least knows... but they allow statements like this go out and be wrong and allow rumors to swirl. I guess Gibson feels that an educated consumer is their worst enemy haha

[JB6464]

They have all the Ebony they need for production , i don't doubt that.
I think their just holding on to it and want to pump out the experimental crap to see if most gibson buyers will give in to it and buy it.
If not , then they will return to the original Custom builds with the Ebony boards.
I think it's all a marketing game to drive up the demand. Atleast that's how i see it for now unless some concrete info comes out and proves it other wise.

[Vintage_Burster]

The website still has the regular Custom listed with Ebony...

That page for the Richlite was a Chrome edition. Its just a variation, I bet you can still get regular Gold/Ebony Customs.

[irocdave12]

Originally Posted by Vintage_Burster

The website still has the regular Custom listed with Ebony...

That page for the Richlite was a Chrome edition. Its just a variation, I bet you can still get regular Gold/Ebony Customs.

All the dealers I've talked to are all saying same thing that Gibson Custom has no ebony currently. As for the web site saying ebony on the regular Customs I think that is because they probably have a supply already built to last for a little longer with ebony boards and there is certainly quite a few still sitting in stores so its probably premature for them to change it yet if they are going to richlite on those too

[MesaDCLP]

Originally Posted by irocdave12

... I guess Gibson feels that an educated consumer is their worst enemy ...

The truth comes out in humor.

This is exactly what they are banking on (no pun intended, however it does apply). Gibson has used their raid as an excuse to modify almost every model to lower manufacturing costs. This is not customer service. This is taking advantage of all those that do not know the difference between vintage and new.

If other manufacturers are still building with solid wood, then why can’t Gibson?!

[Richlite]

I love Richlite.

[Vintage_Burster]

Originally Posted by Richlite

I love Richlite.

Quite shocking, I must say.

[marc1kim]

All we need is some famous guy to go out there and make a billion dollars playing one of these then everyone will want one.

[River side]

Originally Posted by marc1kim

All we need is some famous guy to go out there and make a billion dollars playing one of these then everyone will want one.

If that's what you like when making a purchase decision - more power to you.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by Richlite

I love Richlite.

I smell a sockpuppet!

[kszpak]

Played a Midtown with a richlite board at GC recently. Pretty damn nice. Was talking to the salesguy about richlite being the wave of the future for environmental reasons and he claimed(remember this is a GC salesguy talking) that manufacturers were going to have to stop shooting nitro for finishes and switch to something else for environmental reasons.

[Trea]

Originally Posted by River

Or realizing and not giving a shit!

I understand some people's preference for ebony. If they cannot find the guitar they want with an ebony board, I feel genuine pity for them. I simply cannot believe, however, that is the case. If I'm right, they're whining about a horse losing the race when they had no bet down.

Richlite makes a damned fine fret board, you can't tell what it is without 20/20 vision from less than three feet, and it feels and sounds so much the same that I dare anyone to identify it in a blindfolded, strings-on, playing test.

I knew that the fretboard on my Martin was richlite and not ebony when I bought it, but I have to say I love the way it feels. And before someone asks, yes I have had Ebony board guitars before.

[Dirtyclinic]

Richlite might look great and sound great but my brain requires there to be a solid piece of exotic wood on my guitar for the price i paid.

[thexmadxtopxhatter]

they could use ductape fretboard for all i care the more they change the more the price of my rosewood clad les 2000 les paul classic goes up

[Blackdog]

Originally Posted by db1408

As it has previously been said. Why aren't the prices changing?

Reducing the prices would be admitting that REAL ebony is superior to FAKE ebony, and they're trying to sell exactly the opposite: "environmentally responsible" is better.

BTW, we also lost the real pearl block inlays. I guess acrylic is, again, the "environmentally responsible" option to save the poor oysters from an unethical death....

You know, it probably doesn't make any practical difference and Richlite feels and sounds just like ebony. And probably you can't even see a difference even under close inspection. But that's not the point. Ebony boards and pearl inlays were the sign of luxury, up-market models. That is lost now.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by kszpak

Played a Midtown with a richlite board at GC recently. Pretty damn nice. Was talking to the salesguy about richlite being the wave of the future for environmental reasons and he claimed(remember this is a GC salesguy talking) that manufacturers were going to have to stop shooting nitro for finishes and switch to something else for environmental reasons.

Well, there was concern that that would be the case twenty years ago, because nitrocellulose is indeed bad for the environment:

The binder in most lacquer is acrylic, which is synthetic, or nitrocellulose, which is derived from natural sources such as wood or cotton. Acrylic lacquer is more durable and better for floor coating, while nitrocellulose lacquer is more often used on furniture and decorations and can be touched up easily because it does not set in the same way as acrylic lacquer. While nitrocellulose comes from natural sources, its benefit is outweighed by the environmental and health impacts from xylene, toluene, and solvent manufacture and exposure. Since lacquer does not form as hard a coating as most types of varnish or water-based sealers, the wood is more susceptible to water and physical damage. Catalyzed lacquers, however, are very durable.

Because lacquer usually has high solvent and VOC content and often contains the solvents xylene and toluene, conventional lacquer is not considered environmentally preferable. In fact, conventional lacquer is one of the worst clear finishes in terms of emitting VOCs into your home; only varnishes are worse. However, you can now find low-VOC, water-based lacquers that fall far below the EPA’s VOC limit for lacquer of 350 grams per liter (g/L) (see the Water-Based Sealer section below).

Selecting Healthy and Environmentally Sound Clear Wood Finishes - Green Home Guide by USGBC

I don't know how many manufacturers made the switch in the first place, much less how many have ever used nitro.

[tcdrover]

It seems to be more about the quantity and DEMAND for Gibsons than about the actual cost of Ebony, Rosewood and mother of pearl.

They are making more and more guitars and the cost and logistics of the supply is being strained.

I was looking at the prices of mother of pearl inlays and they are not that expensive. The volume seems to be the issue.

[wheelsdeal]

I am also dissapointed with the changes on the materials on fretboards.I was waiting for a white Explorer with ebony fretboard and the store informed me that new Explorers comes with Grenadillo fretboards which btw there is no info about the change on Gibson site they still claim for Rosewood and Ebony.Now i see Customs use Richlite and the price tag is the same.If it is for enviromental issues,i get it.The thing i dont get is why the same price tag.Ebony wood vs synthetic costs the same??

[jlb32]

If you look at the online stores like Musicians Friend, Sweetwater, Zzounds, etc.. most of them don't have any Les Paul Customs with ebony boards at the moment. Zzounds site says more expected in June.

[murmel]

In one of the recent issues of wood and steel Bob wrote that Taylor Guitars had bought the worlds largest supplier of legal ebony. That's why they still have ebony boards on so many models while Martin and Gibson have to use substitutes like richlite are micarta. It's nice to see that many around here also like customs with richlite. For me a custom needs ebony, of course it is psychological, but that's what a custom is all about.