2008 Standard - What the hell were they thinking?

[NeoConMan]

I posted this in a few other forums, including Gibson.
Figured I would share it here....

Quoting from the Gibson website;

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/division...2008-standard/

"an elegant revision of a true classic, with upgrades and new features that make it the best Les Paul Standard ever produced. Based on consumer feedback and a drive to uphold and enhance the legacy of the Les Paul Standard, the 2008 model sets a new guitar benchmark for excellence and achievement."

The highlighted poke points on the Les Paul graphic all describe some innovative feature of the 2008 Standard.
Some of these features were innovative six decades ago, yet still hailed as new and revolutionary here.
I counted 20 of these highlights, only 8 were truly new to this model. Yawn....

I looked at these changes and made my own personal assessment.
There are others Gibson failed to mention, I'll touch on those as well.

Chambered body - This has been beat to death. Personally, I want ALL the Mahogany left inside the guitar.
Enlarged neck tenon - I dunno. Website says it's the largest neck tenon ever in a Les Paul. Okay.
Asymetrical neck - Feels like a 60 Slim Taper to me unless I think about it. Fatter on the top side. So what?
Locking 18:1 Grovers - This should be standard equipment on EVERY Gibson guitar. Absolutely fabulous.
Plek system - I think the difference is there. This too should be standard on EVERY Gibson guitar.
Burstbucker Pro's - I might lean toward 57 Classics with a Plus, but they are killer pickups for the PAF vibe.
Tone Pros locking Tune O Matic and stop bar - I see no need for it, I guess if it's already on the guitar....
Neutrik jack - Like I need something else I can't see under the guitar to keep me from unplugging. It's gotta go.
Dunlop Straplok Dual Design - Schallers will replace these on any guitar I own.
Gold-plated, custom-made Bourns potentiometers - Mounted on a circuit board. They suck. I'll explain more.
Translucent rear switch cover - So we can see all the fancy stuff in there that sucks.

My first complaint when I first plugged the guitar in was that the tone and volume pots did not work properly.
The tone pots had no effect at all, like the were never soldered into the circuit. What the hell is going on here?
After consulting a salesman, he assured me everything was fine with it, handed it back.
Tone pots STILL do not work, and this is a brand new guitar right out of the box!

Ah, after a little mindless noodling, I found the problem.
When the volume pot is wide open, it evidently removes the tone pot from the circuit.
Gibson dropped the ball here, if only by omission.
Why would they not disclose this? Heck, advertise it as a bonus feature.
Turn the volume down from 10, the cut is dramatic.
Nothing linear about these pots at all. Half the volume is above 8.
With the tone dialed back at lower volumes, there is plenty of flexibility.
Max the volume and the tone is now immediately on 10, with the cut-off point around 7 or 8 on the volume.
To much monkey-motion, too much control removed from a players hand. The Gibson engineers tailor your tone.
If you have the tone dialed back for a warmer tone, then crank the volume, it goes to full bright.
If you're playing the other way, volume maxed, and you turn it down below 7, there's a HUGE drop in output.

I pray that the holes machined in the body still accept the old style pots and point to point wiring, if so desired.

Overall...
I think it's a great guitar, but I hate that getting a new Standard now means I have to buy a new Traditional.
Gibson has a marketing strategy and vision I simply cannot agree with here, but they do all the market research...

Time will tell if it's a flash in the pan. Sales will likely be brisk because it's new and "improved" so there are always buyers needing to be the first on the block with every new gizmo and gadget.
Buyers who could honestly describe themselves as traditional (like me) may feel a little like they were left out in the cold.

I still have a case of New Coke in the garage, if anybody is interested.

List price of $3,899 means it should hit the street for a third less - don't pay over $2,600 out the door.

[jomo]

Look at the bright side, this will make older ones more desirable.
Kind of like, when Harley goes water cooled, all the air cooled Harleys will bring big bucks..... Just my thoughts.

[jonesy]

Nice Post Bro, lots of usable info and good common sense review
Hope you are having a good Holiday weekend?

Peace, jonesy

[Tim Plains]

Originally Posted by NeoConMan

Based on consumer feedback and a drive to uphold and enhance the legacy of the Les Paul Standard

I wonder if this is true?
I'm sure if there were a "chambering vs. non-chambering" poll here, most people would vote non-chambered. "Based on customer feedback"?? Are that many people complaining about the weight on a Les Paul?

P.S. PLEASE do not start a "chambering vs. non-chambering" poll.

[Merv]

I go for the weight every time. The heavier the better !! I have four Les Pauls, all of which are almost 10 pounders. My 2008 LP HCS Custom is 10lbs 1oz. What a great feeling guitar with a traditional 50's neck. Cant beat it.



Merv

[Inside Guy]

Originally Posted by R9.

I wonder if this is true?
I'm sure if there were a "chambering vs. non-chambering" poll here, most people would vote non-chambered. "Based on customer feedback"?? Are that many people complaining about the weight on a Les Paul?

P.S. PLEASE do not start a "chambering vs. non-chambering" poll.

Yes, this is 100% true. This also includes our Artist endorders, dealers, and distributors. We heard this feedback constantly before and after we started chambering.

[alligatorbling]

im with you... they should have remembered the old saying, if it aint broke dont fix it... one of the main deciding factors when i got my used lp was weight. if it wasn't 10 lbs ore more i didnt want it. my classic weighs in at 10lbs 3oz's... sustains till next week

[Boleskinehouse]

I wouldn't have one if somebody gave it to me. There ya go.

I LOVE Gibson, but they aren't doing the right thing, IMO...

[Mighty Tom]

This makes me feel better about the older Les Paul Standard I just bought.

Oh yes, I'll have to post about that...

[needlespauls]

Ugh, guys, please pretty please lets not get more into the chambering thing. People have this mis-conception that chambering is this dark secret invention that Gibson created. I will agree that Gibson should have offered it as an option from the beginning, rather than chambering them without mentioning it. That was just dis-honest. BUT, I'm sure Gibson figured that "hey everyone else is doing it, why not us?". Seriously though, PRS Larrivee McNought Robin, and several other high-end to boutique builders also chamber their singlecuts to keep weight down.
I myself also prefer a somewhat heavier LP, but certainly between 9-10lbs. Their is no need to be any heavier, in fact it is not practical, and 10lbs and up does not mean better sustain and tone automatically. That is up to the individual guitar.

[AXE]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

I wouldn't have one if somebody gave it to me.

So much for your Birthday present,

But honestly I have been a loyal Gibson supporter since the late 70's and I'm not too pleased with the changes as of late , The newest Gibson in my arsenal is a 2003 LP Standard ...
And plan to keep it that way until the R9 and R0 are within my reach ...

[FennRx]

here's the way i look at it. for the price of a new standard, you can just about buy a G0, r7 or R8. there is no need to ever buy a Standard IMO.

[nick1962]

Do all the people who love heavyweight LPs actually play two-hour sets regularly? If they do, they are either built like Schwarzenegger or masochists, because a 10lb guitar slung round your neck is really not much fun after an hour or two.....

[Androo]

If it sounds like heaven it could be as heavy as hell and it won't bother the player.

[loaded six string]

Originally Posted by FennRx

here's the way i look at it. for the price of a new standard, you can just about buy a G0, r7 or R8. there is no need to ever buy a Standard IMO.

Exactlly. My R8 was pretty close in $ to a regular prod. model Standard.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by nick1962

Do all the people who love heavyweight LPs actually play two-hour sets regularly? If they do, they are either built like Schwarzenegger or masochists, because a 10lb guitar slung round your neck is really not much fun after an hour or two.....

I can't say I am a particular fan of heavy guitars, but neither do they bother me. I don't get into this chambered vs non-chambered vs weight relieved argument.

However, back in the days when I was a muso for a living I used to do regular tours of two or three weeks, with a three-hour show each night (i.e., three x 50 minute sets). My main player was my heavy old '78 Les Paul Standard. I didn't even think about the weight, I just played it because I was used to it. Heavy? Yeah, I suppose so, but it was lighter than my mate's Custom.

I really think this whole heavy / chambered thing is blown out of all proportion.

Splat

[-graham-]

Am I the only one on MLP who thinks chambering is a good idea?? Sure it goes against tradition, but I don't plan on ever getting an R# so long as I live. Nor would I feel impressed if someone has one.

[FennRx]

Originally Posted by -graham-

Am I the only one on MLP who thinks chambering is a good idea?? Sure it goes against tradition, but I don't plan on ever getting an R# so long as I live. Nor would I feel impressed if someone has one.

i thought as you did once. but then i learned the error of my ways

[v8ko]

Originally Posted by -graham-

Am I the only one on MLP who thinks chambering is a good idea?? Sure it goes against tradition, but I don't plan on ever getting an R# so long as I live. Nor would I feel impressed if someone has one.

Not knockin you man but thats a pretty dead end statement to make so early on.....but on the plus side it gave me a chuckle. ROCK ON!

Originally Posted by FennRx

i thought as you did once. but then i learned the error of my ways

yep we see the change happen here all the time...I love it. There is a big diff imo but if your ear isnt devoloped to hear the diff then it prob doesnt matter.


BTW Did Gibson survey owners about what they liked more or was it a case of the squeeky wheel gets the grease?

[Boleskinehouse]

Weight has never bothered me, and I'm a skinny guy. I can understand someone with back problems though.

[v8ko]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Weight has never bothered me, and I'm a skinny guy. I can understand someone with back problems though.

haha yeah I am to, the only time I feel fatigue at a gig is when you have to wait so damn long to play or the venues outside in extreme heat...then I wish I had brought my faded....well not really but one day I may feel that way.

[omni]

I think the chambering is pure genius on Gibby's part. Those things resonate till no end.

[v8ko]

Originally Posted by omni

I think the chambering is pure genius on Gibby's part. Those things resonate till no end.

wOw here we go.....

[Dolan]

Originally Posted by -graham-

Am I the only one on MLP who thinks chambering is a good idea?? Sure it goes against tradition, but I don't plan on ever getting an R# so long as I live. Nor would I feel impressed if someone has one.

I'm with you, its a great idea and as long as Gibson is offering both, who cares? This is a trivial non issue and the traditionalists have the "regular" guitars to choose from and some of us who are playing 3-4 gigs a week and have had shoulder/back injuries or are older can choose from the lighter weights. Anyone thinking a guitar sounds better because its heavier needs to take a blindfold test but then again, how can we test it without knowing the weight? The weight issue is a total non issue when it comes to tone.

I have an 2008 and the issues I have are the nut and the volume/tone controls as mentioned. Personally, I can live with the volume/tone issue because I can change the tone on my amp or my hands but the nut thing, why cant Gibson get that right? The locking tuners are great but pointless with the creaky nut. Dont tell me a little lube will work, I just spent over 2000.00 on a new guitar and WD 40 just doesnt seem right or any lubricant for that matter.

[Androo]

Originally Posted by Dolan

I'm with you, its a great idea and as long as Gibson is offering both, who cares? This is a trivial non issue and the traditionalists have the "regular" guitars to choose from and some of us who are playing 3-4 gigs a week and have had shoulder/back injuries or are older can choose from the lighter weights. Anyone thinking a guitar sounds better because its heavier needs to take a blindfold test but then again, how can we test it without knowing the weight? The weight issue is a total non issue when it comes to tone.

I have an 2008 and the issues I have are the nut and the volume/tone controls as mentioned. Personally, I can live with the volume/tone issue because I can change the tone on my amp or my hands but the nut thing, why cant Gibson get that right? The locking tuners are great but pointless with the creaky nut. Dont tell me a little lube will work, I just spent over 2000.00 on a new guitar and WD 40 just doesnt seem right or any lubricant for that matter.

My weight relieved is as light as a chambered model. It resonates and vibrates in my arms for ever. I'm not against chambering, I just will never buy a chambered model.

[FennRx]

Originally Posted by Dolan

The weight issue is a total non issue when it comes to tone.

agreed. my solid Historics weigh less than most les pauls and sound better (than any I have played).

[Kuroyama]

Boleskinhouse!!! Rockin that Lament Config!!!

I wonder if that could be done as a MoP inlay into a headstock...

[nick1962]

Originally Posted by Androo

If it sounds like heaven it could be as heavy as hell and it won't bother the player.

You should ask some of the pros about that...!

[needlespauls]

Originally Posted by nick1962

You should ask some of the pros about that...!

I'm but a 1/4 Pro, but I would have to totally agree with you there.

[ippon20]

I get great sustain with my chambered faded. Probably not as good as an unchambered reissue or the real deal, but I think that the chambering does wonders for harmonics, where unchambered is the thing for sustain.