How do you know

[Nik]

Not a rant on Gibson here, and it's often the same with Fender btw.

I go to the store for trying out guitars. Been looking for a Gibby for months.
I know many of you have no problems with getting a poorly set up guitar, as you can set it up yourself later. I, for one, can't set up a guitar myself, but that's not the problem. In my experience, Les Pauls are almost completely (in many cases I have noticed) not set up at all. Especially noticed with the nut barely holding the strings in place and sometimes a bit hard to even make all strings sound perfect when barre an F major due to high string height.

But, as I said, many times it's the same with Fenders. Now, I know many of you will say they are not set up coz all players will uniqually want a different set up. Though that makes me wonder who wants a set up with strings almost 1cm above the frets at the 12'th fret. No matter who you are, you chords strumming won't be in tune no matter how you do it, right?

Apart from that, my own preferance is 0.09 strings gauge. Obviously you won't find a LP set up with that. So how do you do it??
You just check if it's a good piece of wood, make sure it sustains good enough and then assume you'll set it up once you get it home?

I must say for my own part that what the neck feels like when soloing is the main interest of mine. This is impossible with a, for me, poorly set up, guitar.
Intonation, and the too thick strings are ok, but how do you really get the feel of a guitar when it's, FOR YOU, poorly set up??

I can't for the life of me justify $3000 for something that feels nicley, that I could probably 'fix' myself at home. At that price, it has to feel 100% perfect.
And I don't know what any guitar will feel like if it's not set up for my own preferance.




Actually I went into a guitar store about 3 years ago determined I'd buy an American Strat. I told the guy which one I wanted and told him if you can set it up like I want I'll buy it. He mixed and trixed with it. Came back I told him come one this is shit. There was another Fender in the store (mexican) which was set up perfectly for my liking, but he couldn't get it like that even close. I told him if you get it like that Mim I'll buy it, but his last argument was "Yo, some string buzzing and high action is not the end of the world'

I left without a guitar of course ,even if I really wanted to buy one.

[bufbills]

Start here.

Before you buy your 1st Les Paul...**READ ME**

Bottom line is most if not all Les Pauls need a proper set up out of the box. Thats just the way it is. Well worth the $50 bucks if you cant do it yourself. It part of buying a guitar.

I just reread your post. I get what youre asking but even without a setup and strings you dont like you should be able to tell a dud from a stud by spending a little time playing it. Keep playing different Les Pauls until you find the right one You'll know.

[LOSTVENTURE]

You will eventually learn to get a feel for the neck regardless of how the action is set. If it generally feels good then that's a good starting point. Next, I would see if the guitar is capable of giving me certain tones that I can use. They are all different so plan to play a few.

[Olds442]

If you don't set up your own guitars, simply find a tech that you like working with and figure the cost of a proper set up into your purchase.

30 day return policies exist for a reason. If the guitar can't be set up well enough return it.

I can usually tell if a guitar will work for me pretty quick in a stores, at least that its good enough to take home and set up. I'm not against doing some tweaking in the store either. The places I shop know me well enough to know I won't mess up the guitars, which is nice.

[Triangle Going Sick]

You guys must have a high turn over of new sold guitars in the US and retailers are spoiled. I would never purchase new a guitar without it being perfect in all respects and that means setup. And I certainly wouldn't be looking to pay for it on a 2K+ guitar!

Lucky guitar shops don't sell cars........

[WornToTheWood]

IMO, if you can't set up your own guitar, then you shouldn't own a $3000 guitar...

i know there's pros that can't set up they're own guitar, but i've never met any.

[WornToTheWood]

and, if something doesn't seem right with it, ask an employee about it.

they'll make changes if need be.

[Olds442]

Originally Posted by Triangle Going Sick

You guys must have a high turn over of new sold guitars in the US and retailers are spoiled. I would never purchase new a guitar without it being perfect in all respects and that means setup. And I certainly wouldn't be looking to pay for it on a 2K+ guitar!

Lucky guitar shops don't sell cars........

Fair enough, but I don't expect guitar mfgs or retailers to know how I want my guitar set up. If they guess wrong by filing a nut wrong or just how i dont like it then what? Everybody loses.

Some shops here will set up a guitar in shop free of charge either during the sales process or after the sale which alleviates the issue.

[Triangle Going Sick]

True, though at least it shouldn't be miles off like OP mentioned!

The guitar setup at sales should be expected and good business.

[Triangle Going Sick]

Originally Posted by WornToTheWood

IMO, if you can't set up your own guitar, then you shouldn't own a $3000 guitar...

i know there's pros that can't set up they're own guitar, but i've never met any.

Ohh c'mon. There's a BIG difference between understanding guitar setup and techniques and having the mechanical ability to achieve this. I don't care how easy it may be to some. I know plenty of guys that can't change a leaking valve seat on a tap in their house, does that mean they shouldn't own a house?

[rjshare]

i think there is a valid point being made by the op here - and it is the reason why i am convinced that 9 out of ten of the people who complain about so many new gibsons they try out in their local store being crap are really judging the guitar by its setup and not its construction.

apologies for repeating what i have said already many times before on here, but people are always moaning on here about the standard of new guitars that they see/buy from stores but no-one ever says that the second hand guitar they just bought or tried out is a dud, didnt speak to them, or just hasnt got it. why is that? setup...

what is the solution? dont know really. it is something that just comes with experience i guess. at least, i hope it will

also, it is far better to say that you need the help of an expert than kid yourself (and everyone else) that you can cut a nut properly. no disgrace in that.

[Thumpalumpacus]

OP, especially when you consider that you're in Sweden, you have to expect that the guitar with the basic quickie setup shoved out the door of the factory is going to be subject to settling and acclimatization.

Take the time and learn to do a proper setup. It'll help you shop. You'll learn more about the instrument. You'll save money. And you'll never be stuck playing a guitar that fights your every step.

[Richey79]

In my experience, Gibson often just set the action ludicrously high just in case the guitar will be moving through very different climates on its way to sale (and, rather less nobly, this also covers up any problems with buzzing etc.). I've had good experience with their nuts in general, though.

Very much worth learning how to set up your guitar yourself. Even if you could communicate to a tech precisely what you want, once you start changing things and playing it in, you'll probably realise you want to start tweaking things.

A guitar that sets up nicely is something to keep for life. You mention a MiM strat: my strat is also MiM. I would have replaced it with an American, but it sets up so perfectly and stays in tune like a trooper even when tremmed - I would be stupid to 'upgrade' to something that might not be such a good fit for my playing.

Only thing that lets you smell out the really nice guitars through a poor setup is lots and lots of experience. Being a proactive customer and exercising your rights will get you through in the meantime.

[pontiacfirebird]

I cant think of a guitar shop here that wouldnt set up a guitar properly before sale and then they normally ask you to bring it back in a couple of weeks to check it again

and thats all guitars not just expensive ones

[ryanmichael95]

Originally Posted by WornToTheWood

IMO, if you can't set up your own guitar, then you shouldn't own a $3000 guitar...

i know there's pros that can't set up they're own guitar, but i've never met any.

This is bullshit, period. I'm an aircraft mechanic, with my strongest area being sheetmetal and structural repair. Our main business is corporate jets, and let me be the first to tell you the guys that own these multi-million dollar jets know absolutely nothing about working on their own airplanes. They couldn't even check the engine oil if their lives depended on it. Doesn't it seem silly, as suggested by you but with guitars being the subject, that they have no business owning an airplane? I'm qualified and licensed to do what I do, and I do it every day. That's why our customers bring their airplanes to certified mechanics.

I on the other hand am not a luthier. Therefore, although I can understand how to set up a guitar, I feel more comfortable bringing mine to a guy that does it every day and is hands down good at it. You mean to tell me, someone who has a great passion for music and plays guitar as much as I possibly can, shouldn't own a R9? Get outta here.

[WornToTheWood]

Originally Posted by ryanmichael95

This is bullshit, period. I'm an aircraft mechanic, with my strongest area being sheetmetal and structural repair. Our main business is corporate jets, and let me be the first to tell you the guys that own these multi-million dollar jets know absolutely nothing about working on their own airplanes. They couldn't even check the engine oil if their lives depended on it. Doesn't it seem silly, as suggested by you but with guitars being the subject, that they have no business owning an airplane? I'm qualified and licensed to do what I do, and I do it every day. That's why our customers bring their airplanes to certified mechanics.

I on the other hand am not a luthier. Therefore, although I can understand how to set up a guitar, I feel more comfortable bringing mine to a guy that does it every day and is hands down good at it. You mean to tell me, someone who has a great passion for music and plays guitar as much as I possibly can, shouldn't own a R9? Get outta here.

so we agree then?

a pilot trained/experienced can tell you what it's doing wrong and you fix it? does a multi million dollar jet roll of the factory lines right into the hands of someone who has only had 1 session of flight school?

i consider knowing how to set your guitar up, and wrenching on it 2 different things. for instance, i know when the neck needs adjustment or the bridge needs raised. both i do at home. i can also tell when a nut needs cut or is cut too low. that i have someone with experience and patience work on.




by the way, everyone deserves an R9.

[E.L. Fudge]

Originally Posted by Triangle Going Sick

You guys must have a high turn over of new sold guitars in the US and retailers are spoiled. I would never purchase new a guitar without it being perfect in all respects and that means setup. And I certainly wouldn't be looking to pay for it on a 2K+ guitar!

Lucky guitar shops don't sell cars........

Agree 100%. When I drop 2K+ on a brand new guitar, it needs to make me smile when I strum the first cowboy chord. I 'test drove' a couple Trad Pros a few weeks back, minutes after they were removed from the box. The playability was far beyond laughable. I won't even go into the many finish flaws that each of them had (again, beyond laughable for a $2K guitar).

Gibson better wake up, and realize that fewer and fewer people are sipping the Kool-Aid.

[ryanmichael95]

Originally Posted by WornToTheWood

so we agree then?

a pilot trained/experienced can tell you what it's doing wrong and you fix it? does a multi million dollar jet roll of the factory lines right into the hands of someone who has only had 1 session of flight school?

i consider knowing how to set your guitar up, and wrenching on it 2 different things. for instance, i know when the neck needs adjustment or the bridge needs raised. both i do at home. i can also tell when a nut needs cut or is cut too low. that i have someone with experience and patience work on.




by the way, everyone deserves an R9.

The customers are not pilots. They own and fly on them, that's it. So we don't agree. Actually, let's agree to disagree.

And yes, everyone deserves the guitar they go out and buy, regardless of price or if they know how to set it up or not.

[Richey79]

For me, a better analogy would be a driver who doesn't know how to check air-pressure on his tyres.

Wouldn't you feel a bit exploited if you had to take your car to a mechanic everytime you wanted this done? Probably a similar cost to the twenty minutes needed for a tech to perform a 'setup'.

You don't have to learn how to do this yourself, but why wouldn't you?

Some people go further, and learn how to change their own brake fluid. I'm happy to pay for this once every year or so.

[River]

If you live in the boonies, learning to do setups - everything not involving sandpaper and files - is essential to productive guitar playing. This season's perfect setup (whether on the day the UPS truck showed up or 20 years later) is next season's high wire act. It's NOT difficult, even for klutzes like me. Just take klutz-proof precautions, with lots of masking tape and dish towels at the ready.

A "perfect" guitar, with absolutely no warranty-backed defects, is still not going to hold a proper setup forever. More like six months max, in my experience. If you think yours isn't changing, it's just changing so slowly you haven't noticed it yet.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You could always look around for an old Travis Bean.

[riffsmachine]

It took me two years to found a guy who knows not only "how" but especially "why" a guitar have a certain abearance.

I have experienced many scratches luthiers that pretend to know how fix a guitar. Then you back at home and you find that you can't play a simple Dmajor or Fmajor intoned.

I,m a musician not a tech I'm not able even to touch properly an ABR rundle.
So you must search until you will find the one who is really able to turn from mediocre to amazing your instrument.

A kind of BCR Greg bird...

[WornToTheWood]

Originally Posted by ryanmichael95

The customers are not pilots. They own and fly on them, that's it. So we don't agree. Actually, let's agree to disagree.

And yes, everyone deserves the guitar they go out and buy, regardless of price or if they know how to set it up or not.

sounds good to me. we'll just rock on and be happy!