Will Grover Locking Tuners "drop-in" without mod?

[SingeMonkey]

Folks, I've been doing my nut ever since one of my deluxe tuners on my '83 broke.

I've looked at all the specs, made tons of mistakes and I finally thought I'd nailed it when I ordered the grover self-locking tuners...

But no.

The capstans are absurdly high (something I didn't even consider looking at) cos they're made for thicker headstocks. They're 5mm higher than normal - seriously reducing the break angle of the strings over the nut. Not good.

Secondly, they don't quite drop in. The screw hole is off by like 1.5mm

Now I believe that standard Rotomatics just drop in without modification. But I'm putting a Bigsby on and I want locking tuners. Will these locking tuners (which are the normal height) with the locking wheel at the back just drop in?



I'm desperate not to make any more mistakes on what should have been a simple issue.

[Boleskinehouse]

Rotomatics are always a lot taller... It's true today as it was in the '50s, '60s, '70s, and on... If it bothers you that much, you should install the locking ones.. But you'll still need to enlarge the holes a bit since the locking and non-locking are the same size.

I had to do this to my '81, which originally came with Schallers.. The holes were ever so slightly too tight.

[SingeMonkey]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Rotomatics are always a lot taller... It's true today as it was in the '50s, '60s, '70s, and on... If it bothers you that much, you should install the locking ones.. But you'll still need to enlarge the holes a bit since the locking and non-locking are the same size.

I had to do this to my '81, which originally came with Schallers.. The holes were ever so slightly too tight.

Well, my '83 had the modern Deluxe tuners with a 1mm screw in bushing (not the vintage syle with the narrower hole and the push in bushings - as I discovered after buying some ). The self-lockers fit in there fine (also 1mm screw-in bushings), but the screw hole is off and they're too high.

Looking at the specs, the wheel locking grovers are less than half a mm taller than the Kluson tuners. So they shouldn't be an issue. The self-locking ones though were, as I said 5mm taller - which is really a lot.

[Boleskinehouse]

Oh, I thought you meant the actual headstock hole size...

Anyway, it is normal for regular Rotomatics to have much taller posts. It's true of every Gibson I've installed them on. No problems.

[SingeMonkey]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Oh, I thought you meant the actual headstock hole size...

Anyway, it is normal for regular Rotomatics to have much taller posts. It's true of every Gibson I've installed them on. No problems.

The issue on the self locking tuners isn't so much the posts themselves as the height of the holes. I'll try to illustrate:

Self locking:



Klusons:



and finally wheel locking grovers:



Note that the height to the hole in the post is 20.6mm for the Klusons and the wheel locking Grovers, but 25mm for the self-locking tuners (.811" and .813" vs. .985" for the self-lockers).

*update*

I should have used the grover deluxes to illustrate the Gibson Deluxe tuners, but unfortunately the spec doesn't give the height of the holes in the post and it should be the same as for the Kluson waffleback vintage types I showed above.

[Boleskinehouse]

Ah!!! Grover makes two different locking styles.. I only knew about the wheel lockers.. Rotogrips they're called. Sorry! The self lockers do look really tall!

[SingeMonkey]

So to my original question: will the "rotogrips" drop straight in? Will the screws line up with the original holes from the Gibson Deluxe tuners (which have exactly the same spacing as vintage tuners I discovered - in other words the same as any Gibson tuners)?

It would be a huge bonus if I don't have to do any modifying (says the guy who's about to put a Bigsby on his LP :P).

[Boleskinehouse]

Yes, everything should be fine.

[SingeMonkey]

Thanks for that. It'll be such a relief to finally put this tuner story behind me.

[Ermghoti]

What about cutting little brass or aluminum bushings to fit between the tuner case and the back of the headstock? You could either get longer wood srews and go all the way through, or tap holes in the spacers, and screw the spacer to the existing holes? Totally reversible, and I bet you'd be the first kid on your block to do it. It'd be like the headstock Vibramate!

[jsnbaxter]

off topic, but does anyone know the size of the area above the 10mm hex... on the grovers should the screw be a press fit and if so do you know if the threads are smaller than that shoulder above them. Maybe my mistake is thinking it's a press fit. Anyways, appreciate your help. Cheers

[adris8]

Sorry if im rezzing this post but I just need to know. I have an Epi G-400 and im planning on getting the black self-locking rotomatics off ebay. Do they fully retrofit the standard rotomatics? Will it have any issues with the longer posts? Any change of string tension?

Thanks