what the heck is this

[nauc]

looks like a seam on the edge. ive never seen that before



its a 76 for sale and i think shes a beauty





eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

[DagerOne]

Is that a "pancake" body?

[nauc]

Originally Posted by DagerOne

Is that a "pancake" body?

dont know....

[GitFiddle]

I believe they call it pancake body. During the 70's they glued multiple pieces of wood together instead of one solid piece. Most of the experts in here could tell you more about exactly which years and the hows and whys. I would guess that the crack in the finish is caused by the difference in the density of the woods contracting and expanding over the many years of its life. I would think its purely cosmetic.

Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson solidbody vintage guitar collecting
1976 Les Paul Standard specs:
Four piece pancake body (maple top, thicker mahogany layer, thin maple layer, thicker mahogany layer), 2 standard humbuckers pickups, 3 piece maple top, tuneomatic bridge, "Standard" on truss rod cover, cherry sunburst, wine red, natural or tobacco sunburst top finish.

[DagerOne]

Originally Posted by nauc

dont know....

I guess what I meant was "I think that's a pancake body". The year is right...I think they stopped making them that way in '76 or maybe '77.

[kip0909]

As everybody said, its a pancake body

Very common for norlin-era les pauls

Norlin Years - My Les Paul Forums

[nauc]

pancake, you guys are silly

thats the sustain strip, jee wizz

[Ledheadforlife]

Looks nice, too bad it probably weighs 12 lbs.

[moff40]

That is indeed what's referred to as a "pancake" body. That's a very thin layer of maple between two layers of mahogany, and then a 3/4" maple cap on top. Heavy guitars? Yes. Tone monsters? Absolutely. I'd take that 10-12lb Norlin beast over anything coming out of the current USA shop.

The price is a bit high on it though. It should be in the $1500-$1800 range.

[Boleskinehouse]

My '76 weighs just a tad over 9lbs., so suck on some monkey balls.

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by nauc

pancake, you guys are silly

thats the sustain strip, jee wizz

Well I guess I was mistaken. Upon closer examination of the ebay photos that appears to actually be a seam from the inner piece of maple, rather than a crack in the finish.

[KenG]

I hadn't heard it as maple in between but two layers of mahogany. There's absolutely no benefit to placing maple between two layers like that. Maple on top brightens the sound but in between would interfere with the resonance of the mahogany, probably stopping it so it never reaches the back piece.

[MojoMonster]

Originally Posted by nauc

looks like a seam on the edge. ive never seen that before



its a 76 for sale and i think shes a beauty





eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

That's where all the ground up dreams and wash-up memories from the glory days of the Gibson company that was sold out, chopped up and ground into commercial-grade pap was stored.

It was later used to create the DarkFire.

MM

[Strikerfox]

That seam is the secret to Slash tone.

[Howard2k]

That is a beauty. I am GLAD it is not local to me!

[moff40]

Originally Posted by KenG

I hadn't heard it as maple in between but two layers of mahogany. There's absolutely no benefit to placing maple between two layers like that. Maple on top brightens the sound but in between would interfere with the resonance of the mahogany, probably stopping it so it never reaches the back piece.

There IS a benefit. In woodworking, it's called "crossbanding". The grain of the maple runs perpendicular to the grain of the mahogany - sort of the same way they make plywood. It adds strength and reduces warpage (not that I've ever seen a non-pancake LP body that's cupped or warped...). Because of the crossbanding, a pancake body is structurally more stable than a one-piece. One hears horror stories of them de-laminating, but I've never seen it in 40 years of playing. Mind you, I'm not a luthier, either. Pancake bodies were eventually phased out, because they proved to be more expensive to produce than one- or two-piece bodies.

As to whether it interfered with body resonance, it's really a thing that varies between individual guitars. I think you'll find that there were MANY great sounding Norlin LPs that were built this way (Al DiMiola, off the top of my head, along with most classic rock from the '70s), and there are lots of tune turds with one-piece bodies, even '59s.

[eaglewolf]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

My '76 weighs just a tad over 9lbs., so suck on some monkey balls.

Leave it Boles!

It seems like the opinions are all over the place on Norlins, though good comments seem to come from those that own or have owned them. That might tell you something.

David

[Kezia]

I could be wrong... I think it might be a Gibson Les Paul

In all seriousness, like everyone else said, pancake body

[KenG]

Originally Posted by moff40

There IS a benefit. In woodworking, it's called "crossbanding". The grain of the maple runs perpendicular to the grain of the mahogany - sort of the same way they make plywood. It adds strength and reduces warpage (not that I've ever seen a non-pancake LP body that's cupped or warped...). Because of the crossbanding, a pancake body is structurally more stable than a one-piece. One hears horror stories of them de-laminating, but I've never seen it in 40 years of playing. Mind you, I'm not a luthier, either. Pancake bodies were eventually phased out, because they proved to be more expensive to produce than one- or two-piece bodies.

As to whether it interfered with body resonance, it's really a thing that varies between individual guitars. I think you'll find that there were MANY great sounding Norlin LPs that were built this way (Al DiMiola, off the top of my head, along with most classic rock from the '70s), and there are lots of tune turds with one-piece bodies, even '59s.

Not to knock your explanation but when cross laminating the layers are generally the same thickness in order to counteract one another equally. A much smaller layer in the opposite direction would be at the mercy of the thicker layer(s) I would think. Thta layer in the Norlin looks so thin it could easily tear.
I'm not knocking Norlins but as "traditonalist" for the most part I think this practise (& laminated maple necks) were ceased due to people wanting the original construction methods/materials.
I'm sure I've admired many LPs made this way and played by my heroes during the 70's when I was growing up as well.

[diceman]

[moff40]

Originally Posted by KenG

Not to knock your explanation but when cross laminating the layers are generally the same thickness in order to counteract one another equally. A much smaller layer in the opposite direction would be at the mercy of the thicker layer(s) I would think. Thta layer in the Norlin looks so thin it could easily tear.
I'm not knocking Norlins but as "traditonalist" for the most part I think this practise (& laminated maple necks) were ceased due to people wanting the original construction methods/materials.
I'm sure I've admired many LPs made this way and played by my heroes during the 70's when I was growing up as well.

You'd think that would be the case, but apparently not. There have been volumes written on this site alone about the pancake bodies and the benefits of crossbanding.

I agree that the traditionalsts (or "cork sniffers ) definitely had a part in the phasing out of some of the more innovative ideas Gibson had at the time. Gibson was trying to move forward and give people what they wanted - bodies that didn't "cup", and necks that didn't break when dropped, or warp\twist, while at the same time, keeping manufacturing and warranty claim costs down.

Maple is inherently harder and stronger than mahogany. The maple necks were 3 pieces, of differing grain orientation, with extra "ears" glued on at the headstock. Because of the differing orientation of the grain in the lamination, along with the volute, they better resisted warping and twisting, and were less prone to breakage than one-piece mahogany necks (which also had "ears" added at the headstock). Remember, many VERY high-end guitars, including guitars like the Super 400, have laminated maple necks.

Which leads me to another rant. Why is it that 3 pieces of maple for the entire length of the neck, plus two "ears" at the headstock is called a "5-piece" neck, while a neck made of one piece of mahogany, but also has "ears", is referred to as being "one-piece"?

To me, the whole "original spec" thing is silly. If car manufacturers had followed the same trend, our cars would still have 2" tires on wooden 6-spoke wheels, and be incapable of doing over 12 miles an hour.

I actually prefer the extra "spank" my maple necked Norlins have, but since things like that are highly subjective, YMMV.