$650 for a 91/92 Fender American Strat

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Could it be an American neck on a MIM body? Saddles did not look right for US. Pull off the neck there will be marking in the neck pocket and neck heel. How about some headstock pics??

but american standard necks have always been 22 fretters, thats a 21 fret neck. I agree we need headstock / full guitar pics. bridge should be 2 point not 6

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

OD

My whole point about inferior/superior guitars come from a "grass is always greener" perspective. Being American I hit English guitar forums. But living in Japan, and buying all my gear here, I get a unique perspective.

Too many people bash (or stratify) guitars in some order based on location of build. It usually goes something like this: MIA > MIJ >MIK > MIC > MII > MI?...etc But what about Paul Reed Smith SE models? They are MIK and they play pretty nice. I had a Parker made in Indonesia that was better than some MIJ guitars. And to be certain Ive seen and played some MIA guitars that didnt hold up to some MIC guitars.

Too many people here in Japan bash China and Korea worse than most Americans do. Its sad really. But whats funny is that MIA guitars are supposed to be at the top? Here in Japan they have COPIES of the MIA guitars that cost FAR more than the originals do. Im not talking about MIJ Tokai, or MIJ Epiphone, or MIJ Fender, Im taking about "History" which doesnt really look like the original, but because its MIJ, they charge more money here (in Japan), and people buy into it!! I dont see the logic of paying MORE for a copy of a strat that doesnt look like a strat...when I could own a strat made in the Fender Factory in my home state! But....if I were Japanese... maybe Id want the guitar made in MY homeland...

So WHO makes the truly superior guitar?? Isnt it up to the person buying/playing it? And as far as what a person wants from a guitar, isnt it great tone? So (Insert your guitar hero) and put him on the crappiest guitar you can think of. Do you think Joe Sixpack could outplay him using a 59burst LP, or a 55 Pre CBS strat? Do you think such "holy grail" wood and wire will magically make him into a professional?

Im just saying that people should focus on enjoying guitars and getting better at playing them. Not getting better at bagging on others.

Having said all that... I saw the pictures of EFFs guitar. If MIM guitars cost less NEW than he paid for USED... then I would agree, theres an issue there.

Yes one mans crap can be anothers treasure. But as far as MIA strats go, in general construction terms , in reguards to 90 era 2000 era and 2008 guitars they progressed to superior guitars all the way up. The 2000 bettered the 90's, the new 2008 betters the 2000's . And value should be adjusted accordingly IMO. Why is it you have a problem with this. I am only speaking of the differences in MIA strats from the 90's, 2000 & 2008.Or if you will The 90's (and pre 90's) MIA standard model, the 2000 MIA series, and the new IMPROVED MIA standard.

[Kuroyama]

I wouldnt say I have a problem with any of the assertions per se. It just bugs me when people get really hung up on how guitar A is so much better than POS guitar B... when they cant play either for shyte.

If a guys got serious skills... then by all means get what you need. It just bugs me when guys who can barely string their own guitars go out and buy these guitars for thousands of dollars, then insist that anything less is shyte. I think you see it more when talking about Les Pauls... but it seems that mindset exists in the Fender camp as well.

As far as this red strat goes... Id call it questionable and I hope we get it straightened out for EFFs sake... *lil joke thar*

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

I wouldnt say I have a problem with any of the assertions per se. It just bugs me when people get really hung up on how guitar A is so much better than POS guitar B... when they cant play either for shyte.

If a guys got serious skills... then by all means get what you need. It just bugs me when guys who can barely string their own guitars go out and buy these guitars for thousands of dollars, then insist that anything less is shyte. I think you see it more when talking about Les Pauls... but it seems that mindset exists in the Fender camp as well.

As far as this red strat goes... Id call it questionable and I hope we get it straightened out for EFFs sake... *lil joke thar*

So what are you saying I can't play for shit!!!!!!!!! WTF the org. post was $650. for a 91/92 American strat IS THAT A GOOD PRICE. Who the F is talkin THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS . You know IMO you should start another thread (like thats never been done) about your thoughts on how much a novice or wanta be player should spend on a guitar. Has very little to do with this thread on placing a realistic value on a used MIA strat.

[jonesy]

How about those head stock pics, front and back????

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

I wouldnt say I have a problem with any of the assertions per se. It just bugs me when people get really hung up on how guitar A is so much better than POS guitar B... when they cant play either for shyte.

If a guys got serious skills... then by all means get what you need. It just bugs me when guys who can barely string their own guitars go out and buy these guitars for thousands of dollars, then insist that anything less is shyte. I think you see it more when talking about Les Pauls... but it seems that mindset exists in the Fender camp as well.

As far as this red strat goes... Id call it questionable and I hope we get it straightened out for EFFs sake... *lil joke thar*

Nobody's really trying to say guitar A is better than Guitar B, its more about directing someone to get the best guitar for their money. Newer American Standards are just built much more solidly than 90s examples. Some of the guitars from the 90s are made from Poplar which isn't even a traditional Strat tone wood. Why would you pay 650 per say for an inferior guitar when you can get a better example for about the same price. Would you buy a crappy guitar that is the same price as an excellent guitar just because you can make the crappy guitar sound ok? I think this thread is more about advising on pricing. I mean if the guitar speaks to him it speaks to him, but he should know the realistic value of the guitar, otherwise he may be overcharged ( Which I think happened here.)

[EEF13]

[EEF13]

[overdriver]

Its a fake the decal has been put on a non American neck, The body is ? Squire or mMIM IMO Take it back get your money and buy the real thing. The frets a worn pretty bad on that guitar as well. You would be far better off with even a Squire CV at 350. new in the U.S. , But for 650 - 800 you can find real MIA guiatrs if thats what ya want.

MIA standard do not have that trem block, those pickup , those mini pots and pcb switch , that body route or that bridge plate not MIA , the wood looks like basswood not alder, must be squire. Total ripoff get on to him bro. Sorry to see this happen to ya.

MIA strats have had whats called the micro tilt adjustment for decades on the neck heel, which this also does not have.

[jonesy]

I just got off the phone with Fender Customer Service and the serial number is to old and not in their data base.

He did confirm that if it was a made in USA neck that it would have to have 22 frets not 21.

Sorry I could not get any info on body color etc. as it is a 1991 no longer available for them to pull up on computer.

If neck does not have 22 frets some one may have taken off old decal and applied a new USA water slide decal????

[overdriver]

Fender American Strat w/ Seymour Duncan's + Hard Case '91 or '92 - Fredericton Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Fredericton

This is the real thing with upgraded pups and guard Too much money but you see the bridge is different the neck is 22 frets and comes with a case they all did. And has 2 roller string tree not 1 vintage type.

[jonesy]

The one in your link Norm also has the 2 newer style string trees vs the one vintage style on on neck in this thread.

[jonesy]

Those pu's and electronics are from a Squier Strat. Even the MIM have better switch and CTS pots

[overdriver]

And also the truss rod access (plug with hole) on the real MIA is all the way onto the maple part.On the fake its closer to the nut and part way onto the rosewood.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by overdriver

And also the truss rod access (plug with hole) on the real MIA is all the way onto the maple part.On the fake its closer to th nut and part way onto the rosewood.

Yeah you are correct about that, I have owned 2-3 American Strats and to me this Strat looks like a Squire that someone has put a Fender USA decal on, pretty sad.

[EEF13]

thanks guys for all the help

[dennistruckdriver]

Sorry you got hosed, Eefster. I hope you can get your money back.

[hbucker]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

Please lets not get into whats inferior to what else. Are jocks so tiny that this is what is it comes to? Overcompensation? If a guitar doesnt stay in tune, or is known to remove an eye from its owners when you change strings... or if it causes cancer, then sure, you could say that was an inferior guitar.

But lets be REAL about this. Buddy Guy, or John Mayer any one in that class could take a busted 5 string powderboard built COPY of a squier and still make it sound better than you and some Fender Masterbuilt

So, lets not get too hung up on "superior" and "inferior" guitars...

Fact is, there is a difference between the Fenders made in the 90's and those made after 2000. This is not debatable. I prefer the feel and playability of the newer guitars. This is also not debatable.

Your results may vary.

[EEF13]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

Sorry you got hosed, Eefster. I hope you can get your money back.

Thanks Dennis

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

Sorry you got hosed, Eefster. I hope you can get your money back.

Me too EEF, lesson learned mate, you'll know better next time.

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by hbucker

Fact is, there is a difference between the Fenders made in the 90's and those made after 2000. This is not debatable. I prefer the feel and playability of the newer guitars. This is also not debatable.

Your results may vary.

thats right, your darn tootin

[Kuroyama]

The only nondebatable fact Im willing to acknowlegde here is that overdriver is a complete spaz who tries to put words in the mouths of others. In the words of Barney Frank: "Arguing with you is like arguing with a dining room table, I have no interest in doing either."

As far as one guitar being better than another, Im perfectly willing to acknowledge that. Im saying that unless you can play really well... then being obsessed with which guitar is better than another guitar is a little like arguing if The Hulk can beat up Superman.

It. just. doesnt. matter.

Do you ever wonder... how many people turned their nose up at Eddie Van Halens Frankenstrat... yet bought albums made with it?

Too many people when they think the value of their opinions of wood and wire are being questioned will bristle get hostile as if their guitar knowledge was unimpeachable... But to put it bluntly, unless they can back up their mouth with their guitar... IMO its just so much noise.

...and while I may or may not agree with the quality aspect of hbuckers post, I COMPLETELY RESPECT that he stated it as HIS OPINION which IS undeniable.

[overdriver]

^ well on to the ignore list with you. I really wish you could stop in for a cupa. We could hash this all out. Because what I really have to say to you, can not be said in public.

To be polite for the time being ,your posts stink of B.S. and are quite nonsensical.
I have put no words in peoples mouths. IMO your urging the poster to pay what was, IMO more for a guitar than its worth cause, he thought it to be a fine AMERICAN PLAYER.
Has resulted in WHAT?. Nice guitar you helped him pick. Cheap too.

If you wanted to have a healthy debate with me. You should have brought along some sort of intellect.

Have a nice day!

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by hbucker

Fact is, there is a difference between the Fenders made in the 90's and those made after 2000. This is not debatable. I prefer the feel and playability of the newer guitars. This is also not debatable.

Your results may vary.

I don't see IMO posted by my pal HB anywhere here. seeing things are ya. IMO should be understood without saying on forums.

[jonesy]

Kuroyama, this thread was all about trying to help a brother out who was trying to identify a Fender Strat and IMO you have not added anything positive. If you don't have anything good to add, just don't post. This kind of bickering is what turns a lot of people off and creates bad feelings. PM Overdriver and hash it out, don't do it here.

thanks, jonesy

[hbucker]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

...and while I may or may not agree with the quality aspect of hbuckers post, I COMPLETELY RESPECT that he stated it as HIS OPINION which IS undeniable.

Thanks for acknowledging that I was stating my opinions but there were some facts there too. At the risk of participating in something I don't want to participate in...

FWIW: My post doesn't refer to quality, it refers to the changes they made in the products in the periods of time I referenced. They changed the necks with rolled edges. They also changed the body routes in the later models. To my knowledge they completely stopped with the swimming pool routes. I also believe they stopped using as much veneer on the bodies in later models.

As someone stated earlier, they prefer the swimming pool routes. Fair enough. I can't argue with that.

I appreciate you acknowledging that these were my opinions but I'm further reinforcing that in my post, I was not discussing quality, but preferences and undeniable changes in manufacturing, which changes the final products.

Now, if you'd like me to talk about quality issues I had with my '91 Strat, I can. But I don't see the need to do that here.

And can I add, I totally understand where you come from - for the most part. I get tired of cork sniffers and hearing about how one guitar SUCKS while another is THE HOLY GRAIL!! It gets really old. From that standpoint, you have my support.

But fact is, guitars vary and people have preferences as well as the ability to i.d. features that indicate quality compared to... lesser quality: as the photos of the specific Strat in question here reveal. Discussing these nuances and preferences aren't bashing IMO. And I would assume you agree with me. The only exception to this would be if you simply buy the first guitar you see hanging on the wall of a store without regard for features, playability, cost, construction, etc. After all, good players can make anything sound good - right? (Again I agree with this. But this statement ignores the idea that the players in question may not want to make just anything sound good.)

I think there's generally a difference between what's happening on this thread and simply saying one guitar "sucks" and another "rocks". Rest assured, if it was the latter, I wouldn't be participating.

Thanks for your input.

[overdriver]

Hey HB hi, say ya know if you read through all your posts in this thread , none have IMO attached to them. I know you are stating IMO as I have said its a given . My posts do have IMO attached (some of them). Funny stuff!!! the mind is a scary thing. I think that fellow just has it in for me. Oh well

[Kuroyama]

Meh, whatever. French Provincial.
Clearly EFF had a bad experience and bought a guitar that was apparently misrepresented. I hope it all works out for him for the best and that he gets his money back.

[hbucker]

Originally Posted by overdriver

Hey HB hi, say ya know if you read through all your posts in this thread , none have IMO attached to them. I know you are stating IMO as I have said its a given . My posts do have IMO attached (some of them). Funny stuff!!! the mind is a scary thing. I think that fellow just has it in for me. Oh well

Yeah. I'm just trying to make my points as clearly and as diplomatically as I can. If I've done that I've got no regrets.

[zplapplap]

Some posters have an agenda. Post after post and thread after thread, it's boring and adds nothing to the forums. If I could write these predictably trite posts and attribute them to the same cast of one-dimensional characters, then why bother reading this crap.

I feel bad for EEF getting ripped off. This shite pisses me off. I lost 10 minutes of my life reading garbage, but that's what I get for logging in. My mistake.