My Les Paul Forums - Vintage Les Pauls

The Holy Grail in MY hands!

John the Revelator — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:17:46 GMT

Ok boys and girls - this is the real deal, this is me at the local music shop in the town of V�xj� in Sweden. The store owner is a guitar collector. A year ago he offered me to play a poorly adjusted fiesta red '61 Stratocaster wich didn't impress much...

Yesterday I was about to order a Voodoo Pedal Power 2 + and one of the guys came up to me and said: "Hey man, we've got something to show you, come down the stairs and check this out!"

As I wandered downstairs thinking there was something silly about the situation I never would have guessed what he was about to show me.

Original case, original electronics (never been tampered with), the nut had been remodelled, new tuners, everything else was stock...

This is me, playing a 1959 Les Paul - it's a dream come true... And - yes - it sounded heavenly - NOT kidding!

So smooth and strong unplugged, smooth frets trimmed to perfection, barely no dings at all, tiny little cracks in the laquer, lemon/honey burst plain top... Absolutely gorgeous... The neck was something between my 2003 LP Classic and my 2008 R8 VOS... Perfect...

I have the serial number, but in respect of the buyer I'm not gonna show it... Underneath the pick guard you saw the original red burst...

What an afternoon!

Price tag? 236 321,17 USD....

I'm NOT the buyer!

Plastic Color Question

johnny_walker — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:50:44 GMT

Quick question - did 52-56 GT darkbacks come with brown backplates like the other GTs or did they have black plates like the later bursts?

thx!

1959 Double Creme (white) PAFs - how much $?

JimmyAce2006 — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:26:22 GMT

What is the going rate for a clean set of two vintage 1959 double creme PAFs?

1954 Gibson Les Paul GT converted to 1960 specs

Syrjosh — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:15:11 GMT

Hi all,

This is my first post on mylespaul.com, but certainly far from the last one :)

I am coming round because I have just spotted what seems to be a really sweet axe and would love to get your opinion on it.

It's been on sale for a good while, but the seller has now reached a point where his price got reasonable, at least in my view, considering that I'm far from an expert in the field of older LP's converted to 58-60 specs... unlike many of you guys, hopefully.

As the seller has advertised for this sale in a pretty extensive fashion, it is quite likely that some of you have already seen this axe, even maybe on this very forum despite my own searches, in which case links to relevant discussions would be very welcome. The only thing I could find here was this : http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/vint...rsion-tgp.html

As you'll see, this "conversion" was pretty heavily modified, which makes it quite difficult for me to make up my mind and form an objective idea over how much this is worth investing into. I would love to know how much you think it is worth but any other form of feedback will be extremely welcome so I can best assess the value of this LP.

Here are its detailed specs, any questions welcome!

Cheers!
Syrjosh

1954 Les Paul Model Gold Top
"54-60 conversion"
Refin end 60's / beg 70's
The table has its joint in the center
Pickup cavities were enlarged to welcome PAFs
Neck was slimmed down to 60's profile
No neck reset
Recent pro refret
Was converted to lefty at one time, without causing any damage (bridge inserts did not get re-drilled)
Original Centralab pots
Original caps
"Pigtail Aged" lightweight tailpiece
"Grover" Nickel tuners beg 60's
"Vintage Clone" pickup rings & pickguard
Recent (Gibson?) ABR-1 bridge
"Timbuckers Zebra" Pick-ups (although some pics show PAFs, which the seller decided to sell on their own a while ago)
Weighs around 4 kgs
Gibson "protector case" 70's

And here are links to pictures of the lady:

With the Timbuckers Zebra:

A little number crunching from BOTB...

Rock Johnson — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:08:30 GMT

A recent question about burst nut widths got me to thinking... I have 50 measurements in Beauty of the Burst... let's see what truth is!

After some number crunching, here's what I came up with.

The width of the nuts of the 50 bursts listed in BOTB page 220 range from 42.3mm to 43.4mm (1 x/x"), a variance of 1.2mm.

The average was 42.948mm, or approximately 1 3/5".

That's fascinating - either these necks have appreciably swollen in 50 years, or the *SMALLEST* nut measured 1 2/3", while the largest measures 1 7/10" (not quite 1 3/4", but damnably close.)

PS - I have no horse in this race whatsoever. I don't own or plan to own a 'burst. This was just done of curiosity and nothing else.

So... somebody double check my math, but it looks pretty conclusive to me that the average burst nut, at least of the 50 measured in BOTB, was significantly wider than the 1 11/16" quoted as spec.

Mid '50's lp jr. conversion (pics and clip)

dretot — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:49:45 GMT

A buddy of mine loaned me his '50 lp jr. conv. (no maple cap) to play for a while. He got it in '68 from a friend (free). Not sure of the exact year, it was refinned and modded when he got it. It had Dimarzio's in it and sounded dull (compared to it's acoustic tone) so I knew a pu swap would open it up. I threw my Dave Stephen's Vintage Lab's in it and............Damn! What a tone!
He is going to have a hard time getting this guitar out of my hands!

50's mahogany............there is no substitute!

Here's some pics and a link to sound clip.

SoundClick artist: trees of tar - page with MP3 music downloads

dre

ID this guitar's year- (Mark Knopfler content)

weirdotis — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:48:03 GMT

YouTube - mark knopfler and eric clapton layla live

It's obviously vintage, but I'm not sure what year it is.. any help?

Matt

Quick question on a 52 GT

jp355 — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:31:48 GMT

Are there any 1952 goldtops that have neck binding and the dot touching the g on the logo?

1957 Les Paul Standard Gold Top

JimmyAce2006 — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:24:42 GMT

Looks like Joe & Corey have another good one. And as usual, they want top dollar. They are the people who sold me my minty 1968 GT which plays like butter. They are expensive, but no doubt they sell quality stuff:

1957 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop - eBay (item 150388179832 end time Nov-18-09 12:06:56 PST)

Gibson Neck Profiles - The Early Years - 1952-1956 compared to 1959

brockburst — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:23:10 GMT

Does anyone know how the neck profiles of Gibson's have changed from 52-56.

Really I would like to know how closely a 52 neck is to a 59 neck and so on.

Would also like to know how the neck angle's have changed historically until they were set at 17 degrees (i think thats right)

So who knows?

Compare....
52 to 59
53 to 59
54 to 59
55 to 59
56 to 59

supposed original 1952 GT for sale, can it be?

YourBurgerMan — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:38:12 GMT

I'm not sure where to put this, or if it is even real or not, but I found it while surfing the local CL adds. I have no idea what '52s go for, and really don't even think it's real but I thought I would steer you guys to it. Check it out:

1952 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop

Wouldn't this be like rediculously rare?

Severley butchered 1956 lp custom (cork sniffers with a heart condition don't watch)

Lampens — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:55:11 GMT

Holy crap :shock:

YouTube - 1956 Les Paul Attention guitar geeks

IYO What was (is) the Best Sounding Vinatge Burst?

ex-nihilo — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:52:15 GMT

1. What do you think is the best sounding vintage burst (or any LP) ever?

2. In what song do you think it sounded the best?

I would like to get an idea of what people see as THE BEST vintage tone.

'56 goldtop soundclip

siroliver — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:26:25 GMT

I went over to the home of my "guitar mentor" today and we goofed around on his old goldtop a bit. He plays his 70's strat most of the time (a self proclaimed fender guy), but he decided to bring out his '56 lp, which was his first guitar. I was plugged straight into his super reverb, and here is a sample I recorded with it. I added a bit of hall reverb to it, but thats about it

(btw, the song I chose definitely reflects the tone I was getting)

JGarstguitar - '56 goldtop clip

Cookie chats to Phil Harris (Vintage Burst content.)

Cookie-boy — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:43:15 GMT

Phil Harris is a well known respected authority on "Bursts". He plays them, collects them, sells them but most of all loves them. Phil writes a regular column in Guitar and Bass magazine and is the proprietor of Harris Hire, a musical equipment hire specialist. He's owned some very special guitars including Paul Kossoff's "Dark Burst", Greenie's #2 and Gary Moore's Burst. He's spent his life around guitars and we enjoyed a chat recently here in the great hall at Cookie Towers.

CB - I guess I was about seven when I first took an interest in guitars thanks to an uncle who played in a show band. This would be the late fifties. You're a London boy by birth. Did you come from what might be called a "privileged" background? What or who was it that flicked the switch in the young Phil and turned him onto guitars?

PH - I first started my guitar quest at nine years old with my first guitar from Robins toy store in East Lane South London in 1964. It was a Spanish job and cost my mum and dad �4-10-00 that is �4.50p in today's money. My childhood was a happy one but living on a council estate was very hard going when I look back on it but at the time I did not know any better. My elder brother Maurice started playing in a group called Pepper Cottage and he used my Spanish guitar with a tape recorder mike sellotaped the front of it and plugged into a spare jack socket on martins futurama combo. I went to all the rehearsals and I was hooked!

CB - Earliest influences are often quoted as being central to a players developments, who were yours and did their style influence your style?

PH - Jimi Hendrix for letting go and being out there with no barriers......... and Paul Kossoff for the emotion and feel /vibrato. Last but by no means least Alvin lee for the speed and phrasing.

CB - With you on all three. Late in life I have a young family. My boys have so many distractions now it is such a different world from the one I grew up in. All most kids my age did was kick a ball around. I kicked a ball around and played a guitar. Did you fall head over heels with this lovely instrument and devote all your time to it? Were you a bedroom playing "fingers till they bleed" type of learner or was it something that came easily to you? Describe your early instruments?

PH - I used to go and see all the local groups, watching their fingers and going home and trying to play my version of what I had seen that night. I also went along with my brother who by this time was in a group called "Out of the blue" which had some brilliant musicians so that really raised the game for me as I was 12 at the time with many hours to fill. I had a Burns vibra artist circa:1962 then a Watkins Rapier circa:1960 then a Burns split sonic circa:1963 and a Yamaha fg120 circa:1968.

CB - Like all things nowadays the music industry is fiercely competitive. I see a lot of ernest, sober young men plying their trade based out of rooms full of electro/digital gadgetry where, if you look hard enough you may actually see a guitar, very different from my time spent in a Bedford van on a wing and a prayer. When did your first real break come and how do you compare the UK music scene at that time with the one that operates now.

PH - My musical break come in 1972 when I was in my first pro band and we were in Switzerland for the whole summer on really excellent wages playing at a club in the mountains. There is no comparison today with those days.......... they are a memory.

CB - We have many young members who are experiencing their first jams and working to put a school or college band together, what advice could you give them looking back reflectively?

PH - The best thing to do is play with as many people as possible and experience all types of music to widen your knowledge. I used to always try and play with guys who were a lot better than me, this really brought me on a lot to the point where I was playing better than them... ha ha ha!!

CB - Haha! That�s something I�ve NEVER experienced! Ok, I have to ask the question. Your first Les Paul?

PH - I was 13 years old and the Free's first album just came out called "Tons of Sobs". My dad was a printer but had started his own printing business so the time was right and by nagging and a paper round and also selling papers at Lambeth Bridge every night I got my first Les Paul. It was a 1968 gold top with P90 pickups, a Tunomatic bridge and I was off on my playing at a real level with a real guitar!

CB - You've met and worked with many players who would be considered "Great". What is it do you think that sets them aside from the rest of us mere mortals and who do you admire the most?

PH - When they play, they really mean it. You understand? When I had a jam with Gary Moore and Eric Bell at the end of a Thin Lizzy gig at The Marquee in 1974 they really meant it! When I play rock guitar I don't take any fucking prisoners! I play to the back of the venue and then about 2 miles down the road! That is the real deal!

CB - When did you find you had moved from just playing to actually collecting. How would you describe this awful affliction that so many of us suffer from?

PH - I was always a player/collector from day one, but in 1979 when I came off the road I became a collector /player!

CB - I find that sometimes the thrill of not knowing what you are going to find often outweighs the end result! I'm thinking in particular of a recent trip I took to look at "a guitar in a brown case that's been behind the piano since 1961". It turned out to be a 1960 Musicmaster but as I was walking up the path to the front door my legs were jelly and my heart was pumping out of my chest! Do you still get that feeling? Have there been some major disappointments AND some major shocks?

PH - I could tell you a thousand stories like this because there is a story behind every guitar but I will tell you this one. One day in 1976 I decided I wanted a Les Paul standard as a spare for my 1958 Burst. I spent the morning on the phone and by 4pm I was the owner of the 1958 Clapton/Kossoff Les Paul standard! How good was that!

CB � Bloody good!!! And how does it feel to hold history in your hands? Without getting too heavy it IS history!

PH - Sure, but I was more interested in the tone and the playability. This guitar had both in bucketfulls.

CB - If I owned that guitar I don't think I'd let it out of my sight.....ever! Your first Burst. How did you get it?

PH - I was in Selmers shop in Charing Cross Road and Stan Webb came in with a 1959 Burst he had just bought from Charlie Witney in Family for �350. This was in 1969. When I saw it and knew the sound it made........ that was it! I was hooked!

CB � So how many of these iconic instruments have passed through your hands? Indulge yourself Phil! I know you've owned a cherry 58 or was it a 59? You bought Kossoff's Burst, you've owned, held and played all the great and the good, Hendrix, Richards and all! Spill your guts!!!!

PH - I have owned many famous bursts. In all, 39 Bursts between 1958 and 1960 have gone through my hands. In 1985 I bought one of Keith Richards 1959 Les Paul standards from Mick Taylor and a friend of mine who was working for The Stones at that time asked Keith if he wanted to buy the guitar back. Keith said "**** no!" He'd never liked it in the first place! The Koss guitar I've mentioned, in 1988 I sold Gary Moore his other Burst, the non-Greenie one. He used that guitar to record "Still got the Blues".

CB - Bursts are you all consuming passion. What is it about you guys? You've reached out and touched what is considered the Holy Grail but you are still as excited about them as the first time you held one. Is the spell so strong and powerful? The common man is now not only unlikely to ever own one but is just as unlikely to see one let alone hold one. Are they truly worthy of our adulation and is their ever increasing rarity as they get swallowed into the collections of very, very wealthy men perpetuating this myth?

PH - All the Bursts I have owned and played are all different. They are like people, the tops are like...... fingerprints....... all different, none feel and sound alike as each other. I am always looking for the guitar that is the best looking and sounding and as clean and original as possible, that's all. You never get enough of them, whether it be owning or looking at or just drooling over. The buzz never goes away, ever. Once a Burst boy always a Burst boy!!

CB - The world has moved faster in the last 50 years than it has in the last three hundred. Everything designed by man is constantly evolving to the stage it becomes unrecognisable from its previous self. Are you surprised that the guitar designs of the 1950's remain virtually untouched and are the benchmark for all that has followed them?

PH - No. It does not surprise me at all. The guitars of the 1950's are the best ever made so any re-hash of that is better than someone's idea that will come and go in a heart beat. This 1960 I sold last year, what can they produce today that's better than that?

CB - Lordie!! That's a minter!!! Heavens to Murgatroid!!! I love that guitar!
Crystal ball time! All markets are volatile right now. Where do you see the Vintage and collectors market going over the next 5 years? We have a well supported "Norlin" section here at MLP, are they now an affordable collectable guitar worth investing in? Taking the serious stuff out of the equation, what would Phil be sinking his �3-5,000 into?

PH - The vintage market is at an all time low so it is the best time to buy a vintage Les Paul. With �5000 I would buy a 1968 re-finned gold top or get a 1954 to1957 Les Paul junior.It is always better to get a real guitar not a re issue as the sound is so much better and the feel is real, not just made to look the part. It will actually have a soul and not a certificate from Gibson!

CB - You've move from playing to collecting to dealing to hiring Vintage and collectable guitars and you embrace all four! Which gives you the most satisfaction and why?

PH - The best thing for me is playing the guitars, that's where it all started and unlike 99% of all guitar dealers I am a real player and after all, that is why they were made in the first place.

CB - Talking of Holy Grails......The Clapton Cut Explorer. My mate Ricky Sage has one of the limited Gibson re-issues. I don't know why but that guitar just intrigues me. Any idea where the original is?

PH - Last I heard Eric gave it to Junior Marvin who played with The Wailers. That was back in the early-mid 70's. As far as I know it's still in Jamaica but it hasn't been seen since to my knowledge.

CB - One word answer please! Pickguard on or off?

PH - Sometimes I am in a pick guard on mood....... and sometimes I like to get em off!!

CB - Well I'll pour us another large one, how about a toast??

PH - "God bless Les Paul, who without his vision we would be without the greatest guitar in the world.!"

CB - Amen to that!

*******************

Phil is a great guy and is truly passionate about the thing we are all passionate about, Les Pauls! If you need help or advice he is generous with both.

Harris Hire have a huge range of equipment including guitars, amps and drumkits from the 50's, 60's and 70's plus vintage guitars for sale. If any members wish to contact Phil then here's how.
Tel - +44 (0) 208663 1807

email - hire@harris-hire.co.uk