Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? - Page 6

diceman · 07-21-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overdriver

Some how I think your wife would have something to say about that Dice

Right. She's out at the lake with my son right now, but I'm supposed to be splitting my "free time" between guitar playing and forum time, and cleaning up the house!

I did the dishes... better go do something else for a few minutes!

Kuroyama · 07-21-2008, 11:29 PM

Diceman

Ill give that a longer tenon seems like the obvious move to quality. But we know that there is more than a neck joint that makes for a great guitar. More importantly however, is the piss-poor short tenon joint pic you posted!! I understand making a point, but that short tenon was just obviously poor. Not at all fit to the joint, and not at all flush to the wood. It looked as though it would need screws to hold it in place and even THEN would seem unstable.

Makes a short tenon look like a non-option when we know it CAN be done well. Kind of like a Pepsi challenge where ALL the choices are Pepsi... not really fair.

Im glad you and Overdriver came to terms though... Still, I hope your wives can forgive you. Why caint yall just quit each other??

As far as the VM being offered in P90... Hell, Id have to buy a 2nd VM if that happened. In fact, wasnt the original Custom a P90 all Maho rig? I think you could SERIOUSLY sell a rig like that. Colors or no.

Still, with all the online praise about the VM... who knows where itll lead? I know they offer VM SGs now... but as far as LPs go Im betting itll lead to higher prices, but Im just pessimistic that way.

Still, a VM with P90s... I wonder how much a Custom Shop rig in that config would cost... I think Ill have to look that up!!

diceman · 07-22-2008, 12:28 AM

Kuroyama - although I haven't seen the whole movie - I did catch the Brokeback reference.

About that tenon pictures (which I brought over to this page as well) - they aren't "my" pictures, but they ARE accurate. That IS how the rocker tenon looks - it is ROUND on the bottom!!! There is no bullshit involved there. It is so that the worker can literally "rock" the neck into position and the proper angle. Thats why they call it the "rocker" tenon. Bear in mind, there is still tight wood to wood contact on the sides of the tenon - but there is very little contact on the bottom. That was all done for efficiency. Now that we're in agreement that it LOOKS like a stupid idea...

You said "not at all fit to the joint, and not at all flush to the wood." That is my point - it isn't. The long tenon and transitional long tenon ARE fitting to the joint and flush with the wood of the body - that is why they had to be so precise. Not only is the tenon longer, it actually makes contact with the back of the guitar. The short tenon does not make contact with the back of the guitar, and the portion of the tenon that does touch the sides of the neck pocket is shorter. I would guesstimate that there is about 50% LESS contact on the short tenon, between what you lose on the sides due to shortness, and what you lose on the bottom due to the rocker.

I would just assume that Gibson pull their heads out of their asses and start using long tenons on everything. It can only make a good thing even better. But... if they did that... they couldn't charge me the $3,000 that I paid for my plain top R8 (or $5,000 for a flame top R9!). The one thing that they did do was make what is essentially an imported version of the Historic in Japan - poly coated - and price it reasonably at $1k (Elitist).

I've got 3 long tenon LP's and my '69 has the transitional long tenon. I'm sold. I've played a shitload of LP's and the tenon has been a deciding factor for me - I notice the difference.

Now, off of my soap box - my brother has the same Special that you have - TV yellow faded - and that guitar is a machine - I absolutely LOVE it! Of course, it has the short tenon - and you're right - it doesn't doom the guitar, because his rocks hard. I think that it would be even more mind blowing if it had another inch of tongue and contact on the bottom.

overdriver · 07-22-2008, 01:03 AM

Im glad you and Overdriver came to terms though... Still, I hope your wives can forgive you. Why caint yall just quit each other??

whats that all about? oh never mind!, I forgot you aint right in the head.

thepacifist20130 · 07-22-2008, 12:29 PM

First of all, both are good guitars, rather excellent guitars.
Secondly, I've played both of them, but not mine.

Physically, the length of the tenons does not compare with the wavelengths of the signals/frequencies at which the wood is vibrating. So, it's all the same

A student of physics would clearly tell you it's all the same, the difference in just what you "think" it to be.

The important thing to note is that long tenons have more surface area, and hence there is greater possibility of contact breakages. Short tenon or long tenon, erroneous contact of the neck and body would doom it.

The other factors you mentioned in favor of the elitist are the bone-nut, ABR bridge and other hardware. As you mentioned, you could mod your VM with all of this, and still be under the price of an Elite.

Regarding the wood, someone already posted here that Honduran Mahogany is more easily workable than African. That means it would be easier for someone to make a better guitar out of Honduran as compared to African.

Also, I differ on the fact that Epis are acoustically more vibrant than VMs, since Ive played both of them. The VM is acoustically more vibrant than the Epi elitist, because of the finish. Polyurethane is what plastic bags are made of. I don't think any guitar would sound good acoustically if you sprayed molten plastic bags on it. Well, that's extreme but close to the picture ...

So, in my view, the VM is a better guitar than the Elitist, keeping in mind their price points. I have not seen any Elitist owner not happy with his guitar, and neither have I seen any VM owner unhappy. The most that I've heard VM owners is that they get a good setup job done. But again, even Elitist owners get their guitar setups.

And also, you just can't discount the snob-value, can't you?

To sum it up, if you have to give a page-long explanation to prove that a $1000 guitar plays better than a $700 guitar, what's the point?

overdriver · 07-22-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overdriver

vms Do Not Sound Better Than Elitists, Per Say Wtf An The Vm Pick Pickup Are Not Made Better Than The Elitist! The Elitist Use Gibson Pick Ups For Goodness Sakes Man! People Change Out Their Gibson Pick Ups To.
Nitro Vs Poly Is Crap Imo Does Not Mean One Guitar Will Resonate Better Than Another. Lots Of Dead Nitro Finished Guitar In The World.
Nothing Wrong With Getting A Gibson Vm But Imo The Elitist Is A Nicer Guitar.

Lots Of Dead Sounding Nitro Finished Guitars In The World Guy Lots
The Top Coat Or Coats Are Usually The Only Ones That Are In Fact Nitro.

babalooga · 07-22-2008, 01:42 PM

Hi guys, I did a side by side with a new Gibby Studio, a 4 year old Gibby Std., and an Elitist Std., I played the Studio 5 min. and hung it back on the wall. The choice between the other two took a long time,but I took the Elitist home with me, and after a year I have no regrets. If the Elitist was'nt on the wall I might have just as easily bought the Gibby, I had one before and sold it,(what a genius!) point is the Elitist sounded and felt as good as a Gibby to me, so go with what YOU feel is right for YOU and enjoy. Getting input from forum members is a big help, but the final decision is yours alone. As far as the nitro vs. poly debate goes, I have a PRS McCarty- it aint nitro and it is a screamer, great tone and sustain. Oh yeah one more thing, I agree the headstocks on Elitists are dorky looking, but looks don't count when we're talking sound so I just live with it. Just my 2 pennies worth.

hbucker · 07-22-2008, 02:14 PM

IMO the whole poly vs. nitro thing is the definition of what people "think" them to be. There are many many many many many, etc. guitars made with poly that are top drawer guitars. Period. To say that a nitro guitar is automatically better is a mistake IMO.

Are there differences between the two? Certainly. Are preferences expected? No doubt. Is one always better than the other. Nope. Not as far as I'm concerned.

I do agree that long tenon doesn't automatically mean "better". It's one component that lends itself to "better" IMO. But it does not predict superiority in the final product.

Mr. Fuzzy · 07-22-2008, 03:01 PM

My Elitist (on left) compares favorably with my Gibsons.

The Nitro VS Poly is argument is more marketing than facts.
The type of finish on a solid body guitar is a very small part of the overall equation. The thickness of the finish matters more than the type of finish. Thin finishes are the key.

The finish type is more important on acoustic guitars where the sound board vibrates, generating sound. Than it is on solid bodies.

Fender has been base coating their guitars with Fullerplast since 63.
And there are plenty of great sounding Fenders with Nitro sprayed over a "plastic" sealer coat.

Judge guitars on their actual merits. Don't write off a guitar because of the type of finish used.
There are great and crappy guitars with nitro finishes and the same goes for polyurethane and polyester.
One specific element does not make or break a guitar.
Unless you are a victim of marketing hype, overriding your ears.
A guitar is a sum of the parts.

What about this twist?
If a guitar is great and the moisture content is right on, does the poly lock in the guitar to a consistent humidity, consistantly retaining the good sound?
Where if nitro "breathes" the moisture content can vary in the wood, and so can the sound.
Murky when humid, bright in the winter?

Advantages/disadvantages, I guess it is all in how you look at it.
I prefer to differ to my ears on the matter. My ears say that a good guitar can come in many types of finishes.

If the finish really makes such a big difference, why are not all guitars "French Pollished"? It is a time tested finish that can be considered better than nitro for musical instruments.

YMMV

hbucker · 07-22-2008, 03:15 PM

+1

Mr. Fuzzy - I like your taste in Elitists.

dcmey · 07-22-2008, 05:41 PM

It would seem to me that if the neck of the guitar were stable then the actual size of the tenon wouldn't matter. I do agree with what people have said about the finish. If it were on to thick then it effect the sound but if its applied right then poly vs nitro isn't that big of a deal. For the money you couldn't go wrong with either guitar. It all comes down to budget, and if you need an amp.

Kuroyama · 07-23-2008, 01:03 PM

Babalooga

You said you played a Studio for 5 minutes and put it back, and chose an Elitist. I have one question for you. What COLOR was the Studio you played??

No hints from the audience please!!

Porsche Boxster vs. Porsche 911
VW 1971 Squareback vs. VW 1967 Karmann Ghia
Ginger vs. MaryAnn

alpinestudio · 07-23-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

Babalooga

You said you played a Studio for 5 minutes and put it back, and chose an Elitist. I have one question for you. What COLOR was the Studio you played??

No hints from the audience please!!

Porsche Boxster vs. Porsche 911
VW 1971 Squareback vs. VW 1967 Karmann Ghia
Ginger vs. MaryAnn

Was it brown?

GrouchyDog · 07-23-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcmey

It would seem to me that if the neck of the guitar were stable then the actual size of the tenon wouldn't matter. I do agree with what people have said about the finish. If it were on to thick then it effect the sound but if its applied right then poly vs nitro isn't that big of a deal. For the money you couldn't go wrong with either guitar. It all comes down to budget, and if you need an amp.

Take a pencil, hold about a half-inch of it tightly between your thumb & index finger. With your other hand, rock the pencil back & forth. Now hold an inch of the pencil tightly between your thumb & index finger. Rock it back & forth again. Which time felt more stable & solid? Same principle with long vs. short tenons - more contact will mean a more stable joint.

dcmey · 07-23-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrouchyDog

Take a pencil, hold about a half-inch of it tightly between your thumb & index finger. With your other hand, rock the pencil back & forth. Now hold an inch of the pencil tightly between your thumb & index finger. Rock it back & forth again. Which time felt more stable & solid? Same principle with long vs. short tenons - more contact will mean a more stable joint.

The joint is glued together so it will be stable. I do understand your point you are trying to make, but I don't believe its necessarliy going to make a long neck tenon guitar better than a short neck tenon guitar. Like I said if the neck is stable the size of neck tenon won't matter.

diceman · 07-23-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcmey

The joint is glued together so it will be stable. I do understand your point you are trying to make, but I don't believe its necessarliy going to make a long neck tenon guitar better than a short neck tenon guitar. Like I said if the neck is stable the size of neck tenon won't matter.

I'd assume that the more wood/wood contact, the more transfer of vibrations from the neck to the body. Imagine that you have a metal post pounded 3 feet into the ground. Not going anyhwere - very stable. Then you have another one that is pounded 6 feet in to the ground. Stability is the same. Hit them both with a hammer, and which one will transfer the most vibration in to the ground? Clearly the one that it seated deeper.

inxs996 · 07-23-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eggy

I love it when you guys start debating about plastic.....sorry, poly v's nitro finished guitars.

I utterly assure you that you cannot tell the difference between the two and the differences you can hear are self imposed.
Here's the deal, If person "A" bought the Slash Les Paul and person "B" bought the Standard yet installed the S.D. pickups in it I guarantee you wouldn't know the difference from the same player.
If I bought a nitro finished Gibson for $2300 and played against my £$160 Epiphone I guarantee you wouldn't be able to spot it in a "Pepsi" type test because the simple truth is that tone comes from the player not from the clear coat on his guitar.

People need to wake up and realise that just because they spend a large amount of money on a guitar it doesn't make them a great player.

To quote from BBC's Top Gear " Any idiot can shell out £160,000 for a super car. It doesn't mean they are a car enthusiast, it just means they've got a lot of spare money."

+1, well said....

hbucker · 07-24-2008, 10:27 AM

Yes. And I find that in the land of electric guitars (in which there are a lot of wonderful products) Gibson people are the only enthusiasts who spend so much time on the tonal effects of the finish on a solid body guitar. Go to another forum and you'll hear nothing about a finish beyond the feel it provides. example: oiled neck vs. finished neck.

thepacifist20130 · 07-24-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diceman

I'd assume that the more wood/wood contact, the more transfer of vibrations from the neck to the body. Imagine that you have a metal post pounded 3 feet into the ground. Not going anyhwere - very stable. Then you have another one that is pounded 6 feet in to the ground. Stability is the same. Hit them both with a hammer, and which one will transfer the most vibration in to the ground? Clearly the one that it seated deeper.

Physics says a) Stability not same since the length of the rigid part and length of the free part is different b) Both will vibrate at different frequency - THAT's why different amount of sound (or we can say energy) is created and transferred to the ground.

Anyways, since this is not physics forum, suffice it to say, the length of the tenon will not matter as much as we;re making it out to be, unless by short tenon you mean a point contact

What will matter is a lot of other things like the quality of the wood and the perfection obtained in the tenon contact.

My opinion is both the guitars have their merits. Most of us would just like to go for one which sounds better to our ears and plays better in our hands. And with guitars of such standards are these, it's almost that I like a VM today, I might find a better Elitist tomorrow, and an even lovelier VM the day after

Also, the finishing is one part of it which some of us can live without and some of us can't. Don't some of us drool at lovely flamed maples

bby
To each his own!!

Let's just get all our Epi's and Gibby's and everything else to Hawaii and jam out on a sunny beach

diceman · 07-24-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepacifist20130

Physics says a) Stability not same since the length of the rigid part and length of the free part is different b) Both will vibrate at different frequency - THAT's why different amount of sound (or we can say energy) is created and transferred to the ground.

I thought about that after I posted it! Two posts sticking 4 feet out of the ground - one has 1.5 feet burried, the other has 2 feet. Then the same scenario. That would have been worded better.

I agree about wood quality as well. Its just another reason that I'm in favor of the Elitist - nice light weight non chambered or weight relieved Mahogany...

OK, I quit!

(Another thing I noticed recently is that the Elitists have a real wood headstock veneer just like on my R8, rather than a composite or plastic veneer used on the USA Gibsons)

thepacifist20130 · 07-24-2008, 02:39 PM

I quit too!
Let's just play 'em ....

diceman · 07-24-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepacifist20130

I quit too!
Let's just play 'em ....

Sounds like a plan, brother!

overdriver · 07-24-2008, 03:06 PM

[quote=

Let's just get all our Epi's and Gibby's and everything else to Hawaii and jam out on a sunny beach

[/QUOTE]

If you can provide a plane ticket for me to pickup at the airport, I am game sounds great. And I could hang out with Voxdude

have a beer or two.

07-21-2008, 11:29 PM	#152 (permalink)
Kuroyama V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? Diceman Ill give that a longer tenon seems like the obvious move to quality. But we know that there is more than a neck joint that makes for a great guitar. More importantly however, is the piss-poor short tenon joint pic you posted!! I understand making a point, but that short tenon was just obviously poor. Not at all fit to the joint, and not at all flush to the wood. It looked as though it would need screws to hold it in place and even THEN would seem unstable. Makes a short tenon look like a non-option when we know it CAN be done well. Kind of like a Pepsi challenge where ALL the choices are Pepsi... not really fair. Im glad you and Overdriver came to terms though... Still, I hope your wives can forgive you. Why caint yall just quit each other?? As far as the VM being offered in P90... Hell, Id have to buy a 2nd VM if that happened. In fact, wasnt the original Custom a P90 all Maho rig? I think you could SERIOUSLY sell a rig like that. Colors or no. Still, with all the online praise about the VM... who knows where itll lead? I know they offer VM SGs now... but as far as LPs go Im betting itll lead to higher prices, but Im just pessimistic that way. Still, a VM with P90s... I wonder how much a Custom Shop rig in that config would cost... I think Ill have to look that up!!

07-22-2008, 12:28 AM	#153 (permalink)
diceman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,454 Thanks: 16 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? Kuroyama - although I haven't seen the whole movie - I did catch the Brokeback reference. About that tenon pictures (which I brought over to this page as well) - they aren't "my" pictures, but they ARE accurate. That IS how the rocker tenon looks - it is ROUND on the bottom!!! There is no bullshit involved there. It is so that the worker can literally "rock" the neck into position and the proper angle. Thats why they call it the "rocker" tenon. Bear in mind, there is still tight wood to wood contact on the sides of the tenon - but there is very little contact on the bottom. That was all done for efficiency. Now that we're in agreement that it LOOKS like a stupid idea... You said "not at all fit to the joint, and not at all flush to the wood." That is my point - it isn't. The long tenon and transitional long tenon ARE fitting to the joint and flush with the wood of the body - that is why they had to be so precise. Not only is the tenon longer, it actually makes contact with the back of the guitar. The short tenon does not make contact with the back of the guitar, and the portion of the tenon that does touch the sides of the neck pocket is shorter. I would guesstimate that there is about 50% LESS contact on the short tenon, between what you lose on the sides due to shortness, and what you lose on the bottom due to the rocker. I would just assume that Gibson pull their heads out of their asses and start using long tenons on everything. It can only make a good thing even better. But... if they did that... they couldn't charge me the $3,000 that I paid for my plain top R8 (or $5,000 for a flame top R9!). The one thing that they did do was make what is essentially an imported version of the Historic in Japan - poly coated - and price it reasonably at $1k (Elitist). I've got 3 long tenon LP's and my '69 has the transitional long tenon. I'm sold. I've played a shitload of LP's and the tenon has been a deciding factor for me - I notice the difference. Now, off of my soap box - my brother has the same Special that you have - TV yellow faded - and that guitar is a machine - I absolutely LOVE it! Of course, it has the short tenon - and you're right - it doesn't doom the guitar, because his rocks hard. I think that it would be even more mind blowing if it had another inch of tongue and contact on the bottom. __________________ 1969 Gibson Deluxe / 08 Gibson R8 / Epi Elitists: Standard & Custom / Epi Custom & Studio Goth - '65 Fender Jaguar My Band: www.comeupswingingmusic.com or www.myspace.com/comeupswinging

07-22-2008, 01:03 AM	#154 (permalink)
overdriver V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Brunswick Canada Posts: 2,915 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? Im glad you and Overdriver came to terms though... Still, I hope your wives can forgive you. Why caint yall just quit each other?? whats that all about? oh never mind!, I forgot you aint right in the head.

07-22-2008, 12:29 PM	#155 (permalink)
thepacifist20130 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? First of all, both are good guitars, rather excellent guitars. Secondly, I've played both of them, but not mine. Physically, the length of the tenons does not compare with the wavelengths of the signals/frequencies at which the wood is vibrating. So, it's all the same A student of physics would clearly tell you it's all the same, the difference in just what you "think" it to be. The important thing to note is that long tenons have more surface area, and hence there is greater possibility of contact breakages. Short tenon or long tenon, erroneous contact of the neck and body would doom it. The other factors you mentioned in favor of the elitist are the bone-nut, ABR bridge and other hardware. As you mentioned, you could mod your VM with all of this, and still be under the price of an Elite. Regarding the wood, someone already posted here that Honduran Mahogany is more easily workable than African. That means it would be easier for someone to make a better guitar out of Honduran as compared to African. Also, I differ on the fact that Epis are acoustically more vibrant than VMs, since Ive played both of them. The VM is acoustically more vibrant than the Epi elitist, because of the finish. Polyurethane is what plastic bags are made of. I don't think any guitar would sound good acoustically if you sprayed molten plastic bags on it. Well, that's extreme but close to the picture ... So, in my view, the VM is a better guitar than the Elitist, keeping in mind their price points. I have not seen any Elitist owner not happy with his guitar, and neither have I seen any VM owner unhappy. The most that I've heard VM owners is that they get a good setup job done. But again, even Elitist owners get their guitar setups. And also, you just can't discount the snob-value, can't you? To sum it up, if you have to give a page-long explanation to prove that a $1000 guitar plays better than a $700 guitar, what's the point?

07-22-2008, 01:42 PM	#157 (permalink)
babalooga Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 43 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? Hi guys, I did a side by side with a new Gibby Studio, a 4 year old Gibby Std., and an Elitist Std., I played the Studio 5 min. and hung it back on the wall. The choice between the other two took a long time,but I took the Elitist home with me, and after a year I have no regrets. If the Elitist was'nt on the wall I might have just as easily bought the Gibby, I had one before and sold it,(what a genius!) point is the Elitist sounded and felt as good as a Gibby to me, so go with what YOU feel is right for YOU and enjoy. Getting input from forum members is a big help, but the final decision is yours alone. As far as the nitro vs. poly debate goes, I have a PRS McCarty- it aint nitro and it is a screamer, great tone and sustain. Oh yeah one more thing, I agree the headstocks on Elitists are dorky looking, but looks don't count when we're talking sound so I just live with it. Just my 2 pennies worth.

Today
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07-22-2008, 02:14 PM	#158 (permalink)
hbucker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 819 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? IMO the whole poly vs. nitro thing is the definition of what people "think" them to be. There are many many many many many, etc. guitars made with poly that are top drawer guitars. Period. To say that a nitro guitar is automatically better is a mistake IMO. Are there differences between the two? Certainly. Are preferences expected? No doubt. Is one always better than the other. Nope. Not as far as I'm concerned. I do agree that long tenon doesn't automatically mean "better". It's one component that lends itself to "better" IMO. But it does not predict superiority in the final product. __________________

07-22-2008, 03:01 PM	#159 (permalink)
Mr. Fuzzy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 123 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? My Elitist (on left) compares favorably with my Gibsons. The Nitro VS Poly is argument is more marketing than facts. The type of finish on a solid body guitar is a very small part of the overall equation. The thickness of the finish matters more than the type of finish. Thin finishes are the key. The finish type is more important on acoustic guitars where the sound board vibrates, generating sound. Than it is on solid bodies. Fender has been base coating their guitars with Fullerplast since 63. And there are plenty of great sounding Fenders with Nitro sprayed over a "plastic" sealer coat. Judge guitars on their actual merits. Don't write off a guitar because of the type of finish used. There are great and crappy guitars with nitro finishes and the same goes for polyurethane and polyester. One specific element does not make or break a guitar. Unless you are a victim of marketing hype, overriding your ears. A guitar is a sum of the parts. What about this twist? If a guitar is great and the moisture content is right on, does the poly lock in the guitar to a consistent humidity, consistantly retaining the good sound? Where if nitro "breathes" the moisture content can vary in the wood, and so can the sound. Murky when humid, bright in the winter? Advantages/disadvantages, I guess it is all in how you look at it. I prefer to differ to my ears on the matter. My ears say that a good guitar can come in many types of finishes. If the finish really makes such a big difference, why are not all guitars "French Pollished"? It is a time tested finish that can be considered better than nitro for musical instruments. YMMV

07-22-2008, 03:15 PM	#160 (permalink)
hbucker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 819 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? +1 Mr. Fuzzy - I like your taste in Elitists. __________________

07-22-2008, 05:41 PM	#161 (permalink)
dcmey Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Saginaw, MI. Posts: 680 Thanks: 12 Thanked 11 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? It would seem to me that if the neck of the guitar were stable then the actual size of the tenon wouldn't matter. I do agree with what people have said about the finish. If it were on to thick then it effect the sound but if its applied right then poly vs nitro isn't that big of a deal. For the money you couldn't go wrong with either guitar. It all comes down to budget, and if you need an amp.

07-23-2008, 01:03 PM	#162 (permalink)
Kuroyama V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? Babalooga You said you played a Studio for 5 minutes and put it back, and chose an Elitist. I have one question for you. What COLOR was the Studio you played?? No hints from the audience please!! Porsche Boxster vs. Porsche 911 VW 1971 Squareback vs. VW 1967 Karmann Ghia Ginger vs. MaryAnn

07-24-2008, 10:27 AM	#168 (permalink)
hbucker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 819 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? Yes. And I find that in the land of electric guitars (in which there are a lot of wonderful products) Gibson people are the only enthusiasts who spend so much time on the tonal effects of the finish on a solid body guitar. Go to another forum and you'll hear nothing about a finish beyond the feel it provides. example: oiled neck vs. finished neck. __________________

07-24-2008, 02:39 PM	#171 (permalink)
thepacifist20130 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? I quit too! Let's just play 'em ....

07-24-2008, 03:06 PM	#173 (permalink)
overdriver V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Brunswick Canada Posts: 2,915 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany? [quote= Let's just get all our Epi's and Gibby's and everything else to Hawaii and jam out on a sunny beach [/QUOTE] If you can provide a plane ticket for me to pickup at the airport, I am game sounds great. And I could hang out with Voxdude have a beer or two.