Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany?

[alpinestudio]

Wow, great to know all of the info here. I also hear from other threads that the Elitist pickups are the 498T and the 490R (which are named differently for Gibson's marketing schemes), equipped in regular lp studios. I couldn't decide on getting 1 over the other..so for now..I'm leaning towards the Elitist..and planning on getting the VM at the end of the year (hope they blow out at 699 again!).

[Guido]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

Wow, great to know all of the info here. I also hear from other threads that the Elitist pickups are the 498T and the 490R (which are named differently for Gibson's marketing schemes), equipped in regular lp studios. I couldn't decide on getting 1 over the other..so for now..I'm leaning towards the Elitist..and planning on getting the VM at the end of the year (hope they blow out at 699 again!).

I dont know if they arethe same with different names, but go for the elitist!

[Kuroyama]

...Unless of course you want excellent value for your money... in which case, Id recommend the Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany. Somebody a few posts back that VM doesnt have the same maintained quality as the elitist. Nobody else answered that charge, so I will now.

It doesnt make any sense at all.

Just about every single person that has bought a VM and posted up about it has had absolutely positive comments about it. People saying they will NEVER get rid of it, etc. etc. Sure you can find people with criticism. But these are the same folk that might not have anything positive to say about Gibson anyway. That, or another typical gripe is that GUITAR CENTER doesnt take care of their stock, and they tried out a "crappy" VM at that Guitar Center. Well guess what? If a GC had managed to beat the snot out of Gibson 56 Gold Top VOS, then I played it and was disappointed... would that mean that quality on ALL Gibson VOS 56 gold tops was poor?? No, it wouldnt. Use some common sense.

LPVM is an EXCELLENT rig. If Gibson charged 3 times as much for it theyd still sell well. But they dont. I recommend getting in on it while its available. As any VM owner will tell you, youll be glad you did. Even if as a a second, or third guitar.

Just to recognize some of the general haterade being drunk by some elitist owners... its very simple really. You paid, what? about $500 more for a guitar that VM owners are telling you is no better than the VM, or in some cases people are saying its NOT AS GOOD AS an LPVM. Being defensive and hostile as well as constantly rationalizing what some might call questionable purchasing judgment makes all the sense in the world.

But it doesnt make your claims of superiority any more valid.

As for the guitarists that have exercised common sense on this thread, the message is obvious. Both guitars have merits. You should buy the one that works best for you.

[alpinestudio]

Thanks for your input, Kuroyama. The VM's also have the features that I want in an LP, especially equipped with the burstbuckers. When I get my VM in the future, I ought to do an A/B comparison.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

...Unless of course you want excellent value for your money... in which case, Id recommend the Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany. Somebody a few posts back that VM doesnt have the same maintained quality as the elitist. Nobody else answered that charge, so I will now.

It doesnt make any sense at all.

Just about every single person that has bought a VM and posted up about it has had absolutely positive comments about it. People saying they will NEVER get rid of it, etc. etc. Sure you can find people with criticism. But these are the same folk that might not have anything positive to say about Gibson anyway. That, or another typical gripe is that GUITAR CENTER doesnt take care of their stock, and they tried out a "crappy" VM at that Guitar Center. Well guess what? If a GC had managed to beat the snot out of Gibson 56 Gold Top VOS, then I played it and was disappointed... would that mean that quality on ALL Gibson VOS 56 gold tops was poor?? No, it wouldnt. Use some common sense.

LPVM is an EXCELLENT rig. If Gibson charged 3 times as much for it theyd still sell well. But they dont. I recommend getting in on it while its available. As any VM owner will tell you, youll be glad you did. Even if as a a second, or third guitar.

Just to recognize some of the general haterade being drunk by some elitist owners... its very simple really. You paid, what? about $500 more for a guitar that VM owners are telling you is no better than the VM, or in some cases people are saying its NOT AS GOOD AS an LPVM. Being defensive and hostile as well as constantly rationalizing what some might call questionable purchasing judgment makes all the sense in the world.

But it doesnt make your claims of superiority any more valid.

As for the guitarists that have exercised common sense on this thread, the message is obvious. Both guitars have merits. You should buy the one that works best for you.

I think both guitars have their merits and are excellant guitars. For me my choice was the VM and I wouldn't trade it for anything even an R8.

[alpinestudio]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

...Unless of course you want excellent value for your money... in which case, Id recommend the Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany. Somebody a few posts back that VM doesnt have the same maintained quality as the elitist. Nobody else answered that charge, so I will now.


It doesnt make any sense at all.

I think from what I gather in the general census here is that odds are you'll end up with a good Elitist than a good VM. Someone said that they've tried over quite a few VM's before he found the one he wanted. Another person upon first few to even the first try loved the Elitist. That's from what I gather from this forum anyways.

[Kuroyama]

Alpinestudio

If youre gonna quote me, please dont do it out of context like that. It makes my "statement" incorrect and misleading. I will however, for conveniences sake give a short post that you can lift out of context and re-quote at will:

"If you are willing to base a guitar purchase on some ONE GUYS impression form the internet without using your own common sense, then you deserve to end up with a Peavey Tracer. You should stay away from BOTH Gibsons and Epiphones as you lack the common sense God gave Orange Road Cones"

Try guitars for yourself. Do NOT base your decision on what I say, or what "some guy on the internet" said.

[alpinestudio]

How did I miss quote you or take it out of context? It was the first paragraph of your statement. I never took anything out of that paragraph to "misquote' you. If it sounded that way..I didn't mean to offend you and I apologize. My point was I was stating the fact that it was gathered by the census of people here with the Elitists and the VM's between peoples opinions, which I do value including yours.

[diceman]

I don't think that the VM holds a candle to the Elitist. My reasons include heavy timber used in the VM's (even chambered they weigh in about the same as the Elitists, which are solid back), short neck tenon construction, and plastic nut - and overall feel when playing them, such as lack of body resonance. I've played both, own two Elitists, AND a vintage Gibson, and a Gibson Historic. My Elitists are ON PAR with my R8. If the Elitists were Nitro finished, I would put them dead even. The VM DOES have better pickups - which is something that you can surely swap out of your Elitist, to taste. What you cannot swap out is that dense wood and subpar construction methods.

People like to say that "long tenons don't make a difference." Ask a few Historic or Vintage owners about their opinions on the subject! I owned a Gibson Studio for several years and LOVED it, but it was NOT as nice of a guitar as the Elitists, in my experience.

Maintained Quality isn't about how the guitar is treated by the shop that it is sold from. The quality issues at hand are from consistency from the factory and materials used (find me an Elitist that feels dead and lacks resonance. Or, find one with fretwork issues. I've played over a dozen and haven't seen a one. I've played a couple of VM's, and while they were alright, they were not crafted as carefully as the Elitists that I've played, and they are exponentially less resonant in the body/neck. I expect that if someone rebuts my opinion, that they have played BOTH and are not speaking from their experience w/ the VM alone).

Just as most all VM owners sing its praises, so do the Elitist owners. The difference is that the majority of Elitist owners have played VM's and Gibson Studios, and rate the Elitists as a better overall guitar. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who played an Elitist and a VM, and chose the VM. I'm willing to bet that most if not all of the VM owners on the forum have not even seen an Elitist with their own eyes, let alone played one. (One post on the first page is from a guy who played both, preferred the VM, reasons were headstock shape and finish - I'll give you the finish... if you give me the long tenon, solid back, bone nut, ABR bridge, and all the other crap the Elitist has going for it. )

I'm making bold statements just to keep things interesting. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone or their opinions, but I will confidently say that the Elitist is a superior instrument in every way to the VM save Nitro finish (but not aesthetics - not by a long shot!) and pickups.

[diceman]

And then we have the question of logic.

USA Made VM = $700

Japanese made Elitist = $1000

1. Have you ever heard of an American made product that is higher quality than the import AND cheaper? (No.)
2. If Gibson could do it better in the USA for less money, why the hell would they bother with a contract for an entire line of guitars made by a non-Gibson owned company?

Not only do the facts not line up, neither does the logic...

That said, the VM is a nice guitar for the money.

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

Wow, great to know all of the info here. I also hear from other threads that the Elitist pickups are the 498T and the 490R (which are named differently for Gibson's marketing schemes), equipped in regular lp studios. I couldn't decide on getting 1 over the other..so for now..I'm leaning towards the Elitist..and planning on getting the VM at the end of the year (hope they blow out at 699 again!).

WTF WHY WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do I have to keep telling people the ELITISTS PUPS ARE NOT THE 490R, 498t, THE 490R USES ALNICO II, THE ELITIST 50S USES ALNICO V , COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!! SMARTEN UP

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by guido.c

i Dont Know If They Arethe Same With Different Names, But Go For The Elitist!

They Aren't

[overdriver]

[diceman]

Originally Posted by overdriver

[overdriver]

Dice why are we still awake ! have a good one Bro. I am off ta bed.

[Kuroyama]

Alpine and Dice

Agreed there are no hard feelings here, and if were gonna be honest about it there IS an element of sensationalism running through this thread to buoy it. It has nothing to do with personal attacks.

Having said that, if I offended any previous owners of Peavey Tracers... my heart goes out to you. I too know your pain firsthand.

Getting back to Elitists... Ill give you that Ive never played an Elitist. However, living here in Japan Ive played many a fine Japanese, Made in Japan LP. Orvilles, Tokais, Edwards, Burnys. ALL of them damn fine guitars.

Now heres the big question. Would I pay more for one of them, than I would for a Made in America Gibson Les Paul. I gotta say Id be VERY VERY unlikely to. Ever.

You asked if there are ANY US made products that go for less than foreign made products given that the US product is of higher quality...

How about a Ford GT vs a Lamborgini Murcielago?
YouTube - Lamborghini Murcielago vs. Ford GT

Ford GT- $190,000
Lambo - $313,000

Lets assume the guy in the video paid $100,000 for that new exhaust (not likely) Hes STILL coming in $23,000 cheaper, and handing the Lambo (a car I love BTW) its LUNCH.

I dont take anything away from the MIJ guitars. I dont care for the tombstone headstock in the Elitist, but Ive come to accept my own vanity in this regard. There are plenty of MIJ Epiphones over here that I lust for which have regular LP headstocks instead of the "dont sue me, heres a design compromise" designs.

Still, if I could find an honest MIUSA Gibson LP for LESS MONEY, Id hand back the MIJ LP in short order. Thats just me. Having said all that, Im currently eyeballing a Tokai LP Gold Top I plan to pick up soon unless I get intercepted by a MIJ Epi gold top, or another Orville by Gibson gold top.

(There are plenty of MIUSA Gibson gold tops I could pick up here in teh Tokyo area, but they go for $1800 minimum. Right now thats a little too much for a backup guitar.)

You guys enjoy your Epis, Ill stick with my VM Gibson, and well all be happy.

[diceman]

If I were living in Japan I'd be a broke S.O.B.!

I've only played Elitists as far as MIJ's go, but I'd imagine that you could get a killer deal on a MIJ Epi Lacquer or an Orville by Gibson - those MUST be amazing (everything that the Elitist has, plus the Nitro).

I'm a firm believer in the long neck tenon and solid light weight back - I just don't get the same feeling from the short tenon chambered Pauls...

Again, we all feel passionately about the guitars we play, which is a good thing.

[needlespauls]

Originally Posted by diceman

And then we have the question of logic.

USA Made VM = $700

Japanese made Elitist = $1000

1. Have you ever heard of an American made product that is higher quality than the import AND cheaper? (No.)
2. If Gibson could do it better in the USA for less money, why the hell would they bother with a contract for an entire line of guitars made by a non-Gibson owned company?

Not only do the facts not line up, neither does the logic...

That said, the VM is a nice guitar for the money.

Dude! It's funny, I was going to type in pretty much the same thing! You know me, I'm totally on the Gibson team. I just like the feel of the guitar the best, and the tone it brings. Hell, I even passed over the Heritage H150 which IS a "nicer" guitar than my Standard, and did cost $100 less. The Heritage H150 (REMARKABLE guitar, that will test anyones ugly headstock weakness), pretty much has every Historic build spec and then some better, to me, just didn't sing like my "run o' the mill" USA Standard.

Back to Elitist or VM, I have to agree with you here. If I was on a tighter budget, and I wanted a strict "player", that was just about tone, feel, and sound, the VM is awesome for the money. It'll give you all that you need in the important performance areas at a GREAT price for a USA Gibson. Now, if you want GREAT performance, quality and looks (whole package), and are willing to get over the F'n headstock shape, for $400 more you can get an Elitist. $400 is sometimes big enough of a difference though for some to be out of their league in purchasing a guitar. So I can see how some people would be more than floored buying a VM over an Elitist. Just as I can see someone being more than floored by spending the $400 more to get a more tradional complete, and still VIABLE LP.

[alpinestudio]

Originally Posted by overdriver

WTF WHY WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do I have to keep telling people the ELITISTS PUPS ARE NOT THE 490R, 498t, THE 490R USES ALNICO II, THE ELITIST 50S USES ALNICO V , COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!! SMARTEN UP

I didn't hear that till now. I've heard on other threads not just 1 but several occasions that the 498T and the 490R are the same as the Elitist stock pickups. I did not say that they definetly ARE..just hearsay. Now that you clarified this even in a rude manner..I get it now.

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

I didn't hear that till now. I've heard on other threads not just 1 but several occasions that the 498T and the 490R are the same as the Elitist stock pickups. I did not say that they definetly ARE..just hearsay. Now that you clarified this even in a rude manner..I get it now.

sorry if it sounded RUDE , just frustrated is all. it would pay off for people to read specs. before they start making statements on what is what.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by diceman

I don't think that the VM holds a candle to the Elitist. My reasons include heavy timber used in the VM's (even chambered they weigh in about the same as the Elitists, which are solid back), short neck tenon construction, and plastic nut - and overall feel when playing them, such as lack of body resonance. I've played both, own two Elitists, AND a vintage Gibson, and a Gibson Historic. My Elitists are ON PAR with my R8. If the Elitists were Nitro finished, I would put them dead even. The VM DOES have better pickups - which is something that you can surely swap out of your Elitist, to taste. What you cannot swap out is that dense wood and subpar construction methods.

People like to say that "long tenons don't make a difference." Ask a few Historic or Vintage owners about their opinions on the subject! I owned a Gibson Studio for several years and LOVED it, but it was NOT as nice of a guitar as the Elitists, in my experience.

Maintained Quality isn't about how the guitar is treated by the shop that it is sold from. The quality issues at hand are from consistency from the factory and materials used (find me an Elitist that feels dead and lacks resonance. Or, find one with fretwork issues. I've played over a dozen and haven't seen a one. I've played a couple of VM's, and while they were alright, they were not crafted as carefully as the Elitists that I've played, and they are exponentially less resonant in the body/neck. I expect that if someone rebuts my opinion, that they have played BOTH and are not speaking from their experience w/ the VM alone).

Just as most all VM owners sing its praises, so do the Elitist owners. The difference is that the majority of Elitist owners have played VM's and Gibson Studios, and rate the Elitists as a better overall guitar. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who played an Elitist and a VM, and chose the VM. I'm willing to bet that most if not all of the VM owners on the forum have not even seen an Elitist with their own eyes, let alone played one. (One post on the first page is from a guy who played both, preferred the VM, reasons were headstock shape and finish - I'll give you the finish... if you give me the long tenon, solid back, bone nut, ABR bridge, and all the other crap the Elitist has going for it. )

I'm making bold statements just to keep things interesting. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone or their opinions, but I will confidently say that the Elitist is a superior instrument in every way to the VM save Nitro finish (but not aesthetics - not by a long shot!) and pickups.

I don't buy into that long neck tenon stuff. I believe that they are great guitars with and without a long neck tenon. One thing I absolutely love on my VM is the natural wood feel. It felt better, your hand won't slide aorund when your playing.

[diceman]

Originally Posted by dcmey

I don't buy into that long neck tenon stuff. I believe that they are great guitars with and without a long neck tenon. One thing I absolutely love on my VM is the natural wood feel. It felt better, your hand won't slide aorund when your playing.

How many long neck tenon guitars have you played?

You HONESTLY think that more wood to wood contact and a deeper seated neck does not make a difference?

Pride is one thing, but ignoring the facts doesn't bode well for your argument!

Sure, there are great guitars made with short and long tenons - but long tenon IS without question the superior neck joint. The short rocker tenon was created to save time and money, and allow for correctable error in manufacturing by sacrificing the precision of the neck pocket and neck tenon.

I'll bet that you won't see Roman Rist building a Les Paul style guitar with a short tenon... It is a corner cutting procedure that came about in the name of efficiency and maximizing profits.

This one really isn't up for debate, in my opinion.