Epiphone Elitist gold top or Gibson vintage mahogany?

[lifele55]

Nice info Kuro..

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

Overdriver

The Elitist may use "Gibson" pickups... but Gibson has different levels of pickups. The Vintage Mahogany Studio uses Burstbucker Pros. TO my knowledge these are modeled after the old school PAF pickups. wound uneven, and hot. These are highly desired pickups and are NOT used in most Gibson product.

The VM studio is the only Gibson Studio model that uses these.

The Studio Premium Plus doesnt have em,
The Robot Studio doesnt have em,
Gibson "Traditional" Les Paul doesnt have em,

According to the Epiphone website, Only the Tak Matsumoto model, and the Twisted Sister model have standard Burstbuckers. None of the Elitists have the Burstbucker Pro. The regular Elitists use: Rhythm PU: 50SR (USA Humbucker) Treble PU: 60ST (USA Humbucker) To get that burstbucker pickup, youd have to go buy it and have it installed, or do it yourself.

Of course... none of this means anything if you cant play. I own a VM Studio, a double P90 Les Paul Special, and I still play like dog poo. If youre happy with the guitar, then be like Tiger Woods. He doesnt talk about how good his clubs are. He lets THEM do the talking.

You wanna show us how good your Epiphone Elitist is? Put up a video of you on your Elitist on Youtube and post the link. (I only say that because Im planning to post some Youtube very soon... on my VM)

in the interim, heres Burstbucker info from the Gibson Website.

Burstbucker™

BurstBucker™ pickups from Gibson Gear now give guitarists a choice of three replica sounds from Gibson's original "Patent Applied For" pickups - the pickups that give the '59 Les Paul Standard its legendary sound. The three BurstBuckers™ - all with unpolished magnets and non-potted coils, like the originals - represent the variations found among vintage Gibson humbuckers.

The initial demand for Patent Applied For replica pickups came from Japanese collectors, and the BurstBucker™ was offered exclusively in Japan beginning in 1996. By 1999 word has spread of the unique replica tones produced by BurstBuckers™. Gibson USA put the first BurstBuckers™ on a production model with the Gary Moore Signature Les Paul in the Summer of 2000, and Gibson's Custom division then equipped the Class 5 Les Paul, Custom Authentic '68 Les Paul Custom and Custom Authentic '58 Les Paul Standard models with BurstBuckers™.

The variations in pickup output and tone came from inconsistencies in winding the bobbins, a result of the lack of automatic shutoffs on Gibson's winding machines in the late 1950s. Seth Lover, who invented the humbucker, always said they wound the bobbins "until they were full," and original examples suggest that employees stopped the winding machines after the counter reached approximately 5000 turns. When the two coils in a pickup have a different number of turns, that variation puts a little "edge" or "bite" on the classic humbucker sound. That's the sound BurstBuckersTM replicate. (The "creamy" sound that Gibson's '57 Classics replicate comes from equal coil windings.) Gibson then carries the replication process two steps farther, with unpolished Alnico II magnets and no wax-potting of the coils, just like the originals.

BurstBuckers™ are offered in Three different versions:
Burstbucker™ 1

(IM57A-NH) is slightly underwound, with medium "vintage" output, and works well in both bridge and neck positions.
Burstbucker™ 2

(IM57B-NH) is wound in the range of Gibson's '57 Classic, with slightly hotter "vintage" output than the BurstBuckerT #1, and works well in the bridge position with a BurstBuckerT #1 in the neck position.
Burstbucker™ 3

(IM57C-NH) is slightly overwound, with hotter output, and works well in the bridge position with a BurstBucker™ #2 in the neck position.



Burstbucker Pro

Pure Sweet Tone

The BurstBucker Pro™ enhances the vintage "edge" of Gibson's popular BurstBucker™ pickups with the added feature of an Alnico 5 magnet.

In 2000, Gibson's new BurstBuckers™ captured the subtle variations in true humbucker tone with historically accurate "unmatched" bobbin windings and an Alnico II magnet. Two years later, in keeping with Gibson's long history of experimentation and innovation in pickup design, Gibson developed an Alnico 5 BurstBucker™ specifically for new Les Paul Standards. The outstanding performance of this new pickup (originally called the BurstBucker V) led to an overwhelming demand for an after-market version. With the BurstBucker Pro™, all "Pure Tone Lovers" can now have stunning humbucking tone.

BurstBucker Pro™ humbuckers are offered in a calibrated pair; the neck position (IM59A), and the bridge position (IM59B). Output of these pickups is similar to the standard BurstBuckerT #1 and #2 model. And BurstBucker Pro™ pickups are wax potted so that they can withstand loud volume pressures without annoying feedback. Each model is available with either German Nickel Silver- or 24ct Gold-plated covers.

I hate to say this but they , IMO you are a brick short of a full load.
Nice of you to inform me of what I all ready know , my turn ,just because GIBSON has HYPED up the pickups which they now allow the North Americans to have, which where only available to the Japanese does not mean they are better than their other Hum buckers and certainly not the best for all. Like I said lots of Gibson players change out their pup even guys that had stock BBs.
Gave their best to the Japan market first ;says a lot about Gibson does it not. BBs are in the EPIPHONE Boneyard.

great another Gibson Vs. Epi debate..... Have fun i am outa here. last word like my previous one IMO Elitists are nicer guitars than Gibson VM s some day I will have to get an Elitist. Bye bye!

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by overdriver

great another Gibson Vs. Epi debate..... Have fun i am outa here. last word like my previous one IMO Elitists are nicer guitars than Gibson VM s some day I will have to get an Elitist. Bye bye!

But can you swap the stock pickups for P-90s?

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by overdriver

I hate to say this but they , IMO you are a brick short of a full load.
Nice of you to inform me of what I all ready know , my turn ,just because GIBSON has HYPED up the pickups which they now allow the North Americans to have, which where only available to the Japanese does not mean they are better than their other Hum buckers and certainly not the best for all. Like I said lots of Gibson players change out their pup even guys that had stock BBs.
Gave their best to the Japan market first ;says a lot about Gibson does it not. BBs are in the EPIPHONE Boneyard.

great another Gibson Vs. Epi debate..... Have fun i am outa here. last word like my previous one IMO Elitists are nicer guitars than Gibson VM s some day I will have to get an Elitist. Bye bye!

To my understanding the elitists's pickups are the 490 and 498's which come in regular studios. I did a poll a while ago about what people preferred Burstbuckers or 490 and 498's, it was a landslide for the burstbuckers.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by savage118

1. I would grab the Elitist. To me the VM is settling. They look like an old kitchen chair. Just my opinion.

2. Good point get the one you want so you don't settle now, only to get the one you really wanted later. Leaving a guitar in the corner, or at a 25% loss on Ebay 6 months from now. Buyers remorse is the worst!

Buying the VM wouldn't be settling for it. I strongly encourage people to try out any guitar they have thought about purchasing. The VM is plays great.

[brettk7]

I say, get whichever a) sounds good to you and b) is gonna get you more chicks.

Basically, I am saying play them both and pick the better of the two, or hundred VM's that you try out.


ps. Good luck hunting down an Elitist, please give me a call if you find one!

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by Kuroyama

I have to agree with Pacifist there. If you were planning to gig, the only gig I can see the Vm pulling off is some MTV unplugged show with the obviously plugged in VM being played by some guy in the background. Onstage... the VM would be tantamount to holding furniture.

In all honesty that was probably part of my decision to buy it.I had less confidence at the time in my playing ability and wanted peope NOT to pay attention to the guitar. I have played in one bar a couple of times and the audience didnt really pick up on it. The musicians ALL went nuts for it though.

If you plan to gig you might wanna go for the red metal flake guitar. No slam intended. Someone recently posted pix of a red metal flake Gibson Deluxe that looked like it had a matching 50s Cadillac to go with it. Though almost to a man everyone disliked the color (including its owner) EVERYONE agreed that it would be hard to find a better stage guitar.

So, we come back to... what do YOU want?

I actually like the faded look. I do play my VM at my church. If I did have a band I wouldn't hesitate to gig with it. I have seen concerts where guitarists are playing guitars that paint has come off and you see bare wood, I think thats cool. To me it's about what the guitar sounds like and how it feels in your hands playing.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by overdriver

I hate to say this but they , IMO you are a brick short of a full load.
Nice of you to inform me of what I all ready know , my turn ,just because GIBSON has HYPED up the pickups which they now allow the North Americans to have, which where only available to the Japanese does not mean they are better than their other Hum buckers and certainly not the best for all. Like I said lots of Gibson players change out their pup even guys that had stock BBs.
Gave their best to the Japan market first ;says a lot about Gibson does it not. BBs are in the EPIPHONE Boneyard.

great another Gibson Vs. Epi debate..... Have fun i am outa here. last word like my previous one IMO Elitists are nicer guitars than Gibson VM s some day I will have to get an Elitist. Bye bye!

Where's Diceman when theres an Epi Vs Gibson debate going on?

[savage118]

Originally Posted by dcmey

Buying the VM wouldn't be settling for it. I strongly encourage people to try out any guitar they have thought about purchasing. The VM is plays great.

I didn't mean getting a VM is settling, as in it isn't a nice guitar for the money, because it is. But it sounded to me he wants the look of a standard or better(since he mentioned the Elitist line), but wants the Gibson name, but cash is an issue. I just feel there are other options, like taking your time and getting what he really wants the first time. I looked hard at the VM @ 699 last year, but just dont care for the look. I would have painted it by now, but I have access to a body shop. But even so the time and materials would have came close to the then 1100 painted studios, as laquer, and my time arent cheap. Not dogging anyone for liking the VM. Just kind of apples to oranges in the looks department to me. IMHO a MIJ EPI around the price of the VM might be a better overall option at half the price of an Orville by Gibson, or 3-4 hundred less than a Gibson studio. Just hate to see people save pennies now, only to spend dollars later.

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by dcmey

I actually like the faded look. I do play my VM at my church. If I did have a band I wouldn't hesitate to gig with it. I have seen concerts where guitarists are playing guitars that paint has come off and you see bare wood, I think thats cool. To me it's about what the guitar sounds like and how it feels in your hands playing.

I saw a documentary recently where the guitarist, I believe it was Clarence 'Gatemouth' Brown, was playing a Gibson Smartwood Studio. It was very plain, but ol' Clarence was whippin' it!

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by brettk7

....I say, get whichever is gonna get you more chicks....

Listen to this man!

[Kuroyama]

I like Savages mindset. I even prefer the MIJ Epi standards to an US Elitist. But the MIJ Standards have the open book headstock intead of that tombstone headstock.

While Id rather have "Gibson" on my guitar, "Epiphone" is just as classic. You combine that with good price, high quality, and an openbook headstock, and you just made a sale.

Thats why Im currently searching for a nice standard epi while I live here in Japan. The problem is that they are popular and rare.

The problem I have with the US Elitist is its price. I see it as buying less guitar for more money. That just doesnt make sense no matter what brand is written on the guitar.

Anyway, Im thrilled with my VM Studio, and if I can find an MIJ Epi gold top with P90s... Ill buy that too. (though Im also currently eyeballing a 2pup melody maker...)

[goldencd]

I dont know how many times it has to be said, or how many times people will discount it when it is said... But in MY opinion, the Elitist is a superior guitar.
The mahogany on the new Gibbys is not old growth, is not the same as the 50's and is not even good wood half the time. so the Af, Hon argument means nothing.

The burst bucker argument is stupid as well, since both Them and Elitist pickups are shitty representations of TOP Tier Pickups... You want PAF sound... don't buy gibby's.. buy WB's or WCR or Fralin.

Point blank. for every 100 guitars I would bet that the Elitist is great 85-90% of the time... The VM maybe 50% if you are lucky.

Yes I love my elitist. Yes I am a fanboy... I will acknowledge it. But I am also a gearslut and buy and sell shit like it is going out of style when it doesn;t live up to the hype.

I will NOT sell my elitist!

Peace (they need a piece icon that doesn't look like a hippie)

[goldencd]

also.. K, glad you like your new guitar!

[hbucker]

While I prefer BB's over 490-498's, the argument about which is "better" is so subjective it's futile. Golden makes a good point in that there's a good chance I'd change either out anyway, depending on what I need out of the guitar.

Off hand I'd say buy the guitar for feel, playability, basic tone and then appearance. If it's a toss up after that, start splitting hairs over the pickups.

[savage118]

Originally Posted by goldencd

I dont know how many times it has to be said, or how many times people will discount it when it is said... But in MY opinion, the Elitist is a superior guitar.
The mahogany on the new Gibbys is not old growth, is not the same as the 50's and is not even good wood half the time. so the Af, Hon argument means nothing.

The burst bucker argument is stupid as well, since both Them and Elitist pickups are shitty representations of TOP Tier Pickups... You want PAF sound... don't buy gibby's.. buy WB's or WCR or Fralin.

Point blank. for every 100 guitars I would bet that the Elitist is great 85-90% of the time... The VM maybe 50% if you are lucky.

Yes I love my elitist. Yes I am a fanboy... I will acknowledge it. But I am also a gearslut and buy and sell shit like it is going out of style when it doesn;t live up to the hype.

I will NOT sell my elitist!

Peace (they need a piece icon that doesn't look like a hippie)

Hi, my name is Mike, and I too am a gearslut...... Step one of 12 in Gearslut Anonymous Support group. LOL

[goldencd]

Originally Posted by goldencd

I dont know how many times it has to be said, or how many times people will discount it when it is said... But in MY opinion, the Elitist is a superior guitar.
The mahogany on the new Gibbys is not old growth, is not the same as the 50's and is not even good wood half the time. so the Af, Hon argument means nothing.

The burst bucker argument is stupid as well, since both Them and Elitist pickups are shitty representations of TOP Tier Pickups... You want PAF sound... don't buy gibby's.. buy WB's or WCR or Fralin.

Point blank. for every 100 guitars I would bet that the Elitist is great 85-90% of the time... The VM maybe 50% if you are lucky.

Yes I love my elitist. Yes I am a fanboy... I will acknowledge it. But I am also a gearslut and buy and sell shit like it is going out of style when it doesn;t live up to the hype.

I will NOT sell my elitist!

Peace (they need a piece icon that doesn't look like a hippie)

Wow!!! I just read that. I must have been really irritated after working my double yesterday and tired, with awesome spelling!

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by goldencd

I dont know how many times it has to be said, or how many times people will discount it when it is said... But in MY opinion, the Elitist is a superior guitar.
The mahogany on the new Gibbys is not old growth, is not the same as the 50's and is not even good wood half the time. so the Af, Hon argument means nothing.

The burst bucker argument is stupid as well, since both Them and Elitist pickups are shitty representations of TOP Tier Pickups... You want PAF sound... don't buy gibby's.. buy WB's or WCR or Fralin.

Point blank. for every 100 guitars I would bet that the Elitist is great 85-90% of the time... The VM maybe 50% if you are lucky.

Yes I love my elitist. Yes I am a fanboy... I will acknowledge it. But I am also a gearslut and buy and sell shit like it is going out of style when it doesn;t live up to the hype.

I will NOT sell my elitist!

Peace (they need a piece icon that doesn't look like a hippie)

Both guitars have great pickups IMO. The people that don't like a VM are 2types of people those who want a binding in their guitar and those who don't like the faded look. Some people won't give the guitar a chance because they already have it in their head they won't like it. The same could be said for an elitist because it's an epiphone. How many people want to pay over a grand for an Epi? People will prejudge a guitar before they have a chance to try it. Like I have said before buy a guitar try any that you have slightly thought about buying. Then make your decision. I won't trade my VM for anything. I know there are elitist owners that feel the same about there guitar. BTW could people suggest some bands to check out: I have really gotten into blues lately. A guitar driven blues band that is still together. I recorded this concert of John Mayer and I have been playing alot of his music lately. He is a great guitarist now only if we could get him to play LP's He is a Strat guy. I don't hold it against though. Strats are good guitars.

[savage118]

Originally Posted by dcmey

Both guitars have great pickups IMO. The people that don't like a VM are 2types of people those who want a binding in their guitar and those who don't like the faded look. Some people won't give the guitar a chance because they already have it in their head they won't like it. The same could be said for an elitist because it's an epiphone. How many people want to pay over a grand for an Epi? People will prejudge a guitar before they have a chance to try it. Like I have said before buy a guitar try any that you have slightly thought about buying. Then make your decision. I won't trade my VM for anything. I know there are elitist owners that feel the same about there guitar. BTW could people suggest some bands to check out: I have really gotten into blues lately. A guitar driven blues band that is still together. I recorded this concert of John Mayer and I have been playing alot of his music lately. He is a great guitarist now only if we could get him to play LP's He is a Strat guy. I don't hold it against though. Strats are good guitars.

Gary Moore, you don't get more guitar driven than that, although he plays a strat on a lot of stuff nowadays. Lil Ed and the Blues Imperials, I think a local chicago band, great fast blues stuff, singer sounds old style.Lil' Ed and The Blues Imperials-Ed Heads Home Page

[thepacifist20130]

Originally Posted by goldencd

I dont know how many times it has to be said, or how many times people will discount it when it is said... But in MY opinion, the Elitist is a superior guitar.

The mahogany on the new Gibbys is not old growth, is not the same as the 50's and is not even good wood half the time. so the Af, Hon argument means nothing.

The burst bucker argument is stupid as well, since both Them and Elitist pickups are shitty representations of TOP Tier Pickups... You want PAF sound... don't buy gibby's.. buy WB's or WCR or Fralin.

How does your opinion count more than mine? And try not to compare each guitar to a '57 gibson.
What we are trying to do here is to lay down the facts straight so that someone can go through them and decide which of these two is a better bang-for-buck guitar in the $1k range (+/-)
a) Its already been stated before that American Mahogany is a much easier wood to work with than African. Meaning, if a luthier applies equal effort in building one guitar each out of both of them, the American mahogany one would turn out to be a better-worked instrument. I trust American luthiers to be good(otherwise the '57s wouldnt be as good either), American mahogany has already been proved to be good.
b) I've been through a lot of forums/guitar reviews and find many more people changing 490's to BBpros than the other way round. So I'm assuming not all of them are tone-deaf.

Point blank. for every 100 guitars I would bet that the Elitist is great 85-90% of the time... The VM maybe 50% if you are lucky.

Agreed 100%. ELitist maintain their standards, VM don't. And this is the first FACT that you've stated in this post.

Yes I love my elitist. Yes I am a fanboy... I will acknowledge it. But I am also a gearslut and buy and sell shit like it is going out of style when it doesn;t live up to the hype.

I will NOT sell my elitist!

Peace (they need a piece icon that doesn't look like a hippie)

Its great that you like your elitist. Its also great that someone else likes their VM. Nobody is discounting anyone's statement or his liking for a particular instrument here.
The very fact that you say something like "But in MY opinion, the Elitist is a superior guitar." makes your post meaningless.
Do provide some insights, or some facts....and I've seen people taking a lot of pains to get the facts and post 'em here. It may help a poor lil' wanna-be rockstar like me make up my mind as to how should I start with. Do you know, this post is first page if you google "Gibson LPVM"??

[thepacifist20130]

BTW, just to prove that Burstbucker series is not just "shitty replicas", gibson uses BB1s and 2s on almost all their VOS models....that includes 1957 VOS goldtop reissue, 1958 VOS standard and the 57' custom....just to name a few.

gibsoncustom.com