School me on the Elitist

[MaiL3sP4ul]

1.) Would a Studio (from the 90s) be a better option? Would it sound better? Play better? It is cheaper, but definately not as cool looking as the Elitist.

2.) Is there another guitar around the same pricepoint (Les Paul styled) that would be just as good if not better? (Epiphone, Gibson)

3.) I have an Epi Les Paul Standard which I think is a decent guitar, but with either guitar I will have high expectations. Should I?


Obviously I'm asking in the Epiphone section so I probably will get biased answers. But give fair answers.

Thanks!

[Willncarolina09]

1) My Elitists play better than any Studios I've tried. Not sure about 90's versions.

2)Start reading here and do a search...tons of info on the boards:
Next best thing to elitist..

3)Build quality is much higher than the standard Epi line. I can tell a difference both acoustically and when playing plugged in( I have a Korean Epi and the Elitists).

Good luck with your search!
Will

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by MaiL3sP4ul

1.) Would a Studio (from the 90s) be a better option? Would it sound better? Play better? It is cheaper, but definately not as cool looking as the Elitist.

2.) Is there another guitar around the same pricepoint (Les Paul styled) that would be just as good if not better? (Epiphone, Gibson)

3.) I have an Epi Les Paul Standard which I think is a decent guitar, but with either guitar I will have high expectations. Should I?


Obviously I'm asking in the Epiphone section so I probably will get biased answers. But give fair answers.

Thanks!

Questions have been answered quite a few times, so I'll give you the short answer. If you want anything in depth ask away.

1. A studio would not play better.

2. Other than JDM Epiphones, no. They are open headstock guitars that are made in japan, and sold only in japan. A few are around in the states as we speak.

3. Yes, you should have high expectations. The elitist will give you a higher quality guitar, but the studio isn't bad at all.

[MaiL3sP4ul]

Thank you Will, and Sin!

Alright so:

1.) When you say it sounds better acoustically, does that have do to with the higher woods resonating?

2.) I may be reading this wrong but these JDM Epi's, are they the current production line of guitars that are comparable to the Elitist line?

3.) How is the circuitry on the Elitist compared to say a Gibby Std?

4.) I need to get one of these bad boys.

[hbucker]

I also recommend that you do a search of these forums. You'll find hours and hours of posts that answer your questions.

I find nothing second rate about my Elitst. I changed out the Gibson pickups for some custom wound pickups, but that was personal preference, not a quality issue. As others have said, I've never played a Studio that I would trade my Elitist for and rarely play a Standard that I think is as good as my Elitist. Period.

For me it isn't a Gibson vs. Epiphone issue. It's a good guitar vs. better guitar issue. I'm sure that if a lot of the Studios and Standards I've played were set up well, I might like them quite a bit more than I did. As it is, my Elitist was set up very well right out of the box and plays like a dream.

Buy the guitar that feels right to you, there are differences. But over all, my Elitist takes a back seat to very few non Custom Shop LP's.

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by MaiL3sP4ul

Thank you Will, and Sin!

Alright so:

1.) When you say it sounds better acoustically, does that have do to with the higher woods resonating?

2.) I may be reading this wrong but these JDM Epi's, are they the current production line of guitars that are comparable to the Elitist line?

3.) How is the circuitry on the Elitist compared to say a Gibby Std?

4.) I need to get one of these bad boys.

1. Yes

2. JDMS aren't produced any more. They are supposed to be identical in every spec, except for the open book headstock

3. Very similar

4. Yes

[JM Vasek]

I have owned 3 SGs in my life: Faded, '61 Reissue, and an Epi Elitist which I currently own because it far surpassed the other two in playability, tone, and just feeling right. It could just be luck of the draw but that's my personal experience.

[MaiL3sP4ul]

Hey everyone thanks.

I guess I have my heart set on getting one. Is $800 to $1000 a good price point for an Elitist? Are the standard pluses, BB Customs, made out of all the same wood, neck profile pickups?

Thanks so much everyone.

[Sinmastah]

800-1000 is decent I guess. You can probably get one for around 700

[MaiL3sP4ul]

Why are they so cheap when they are so good? You think people could would get a hint.

(And by cheap I mean relatively speaking to the amount of guitar your getting for the price, which is a lot!!)

[needlespauls]

For some reason not many of the newer Gibson Les Paul Studio's played that great to me. They're just seemed kinda dull. Literally dry, dull, sticky (the neck), clumsy neck profile, etc.........
Now some of the late 80's (will have dot inlays in most cases, don't let that de-rail your choice!), and the early 90's models that I have tried have been fantastic! Full and fat sounding, and very solid in feel, and highly highly playable. LOVE em'!!! You can find some of these in the $700-$900 range. Pretty sweet!

But, for the same price, you can get a bit more consistant build quality, a much less finnicky finish, and killer Les Paul looks with the Elitists or the JDM Epiphones!!!
Here's mine, I sold my 06' Gibson Les Paul and bought this and a JDM Les Paul Junior!! Stupidly, I sold the Junior, but here's my GT.........(pickguard is back on lol)

[Sinmastah]

They were only about $1100 new... Naturally they should go down in price. They used to be about $600 used, but are going up in value

[MaiL3sP4ul]

Originally Posted by needlespauls

That's a killer guitar!!!

[standard man]

Dude, I love the Elitists. Every Elitist I have played has beaten out both of my Gibbys by a wide margin.

[PunkerJon]

Define "Play Better". I always hear you MIJ guys use that term. Just what is it that makes them "play better"? I have 3 Gibsons, (2 Historics and 1 USA) as well as 2 Hamer USAs. I've had them all professionally set up and as far as I can tell, not one of them "plays better" than any of the others really, though they all sound different and have a different feel. Some sound better than the others and some feel better than the others at times, depending on my mood. But the bottom line is... If I'm playing crappy, not one of my guitars will make me play less crappy and if I'm playing well then I will play well on any of them. IMO a guitars "playability" is all about how it is set up, if the fretwork is done right and if it stays in tune. Price, looks and sound have nothing to do with it. Think of it this way... You could take a Korean made guitar with a proper set up and a PLEK job and it will "play better" than a real '59 burst if that burst has a bowed neck, worn/uneven frets and the intonation is off. But the '59 will still be cost you more more... And if you get the '59 fixed...

[needlespauls]

Originally Posted by PunkerJon

Define "Play Better". I always hear you MIJ guys use that term. Just what is it that makes them "play better"? I have 3 Gibsons, (2 Historics and 1 USA) as well as 2 Hamer USAs. I've had them all professionally set up and as far as I can tell, not one of them "plays better" than any of the others really, though they all sound different and have a different feel. Some sound better than the others and some feel better than the others at times, depending on my mood. But the bottom line is... If I'm playing crappy, not one of my guitars will make me play less crappy and if I'm playing well then I will play well on any of them. IMO a guitars "playability" is all about how it is set up, if the fretwork is done right and if it stays in tune. Price, looks and sound have nothing to do with it. Think of it this way... You could take a Korean made guitar with a proper set up and a PLEK job and it will "play better" than a real '59 burst if that burst has a bowed neck, worn/uneven frets and the intonation is off. But the '59 will still be cost you more more... And if you get the '59 fixed...

In so many ways, really.
The Elitist series has a thinner than usual poly finish, and just doesn't get sticky, gunky, slow, etc. The fretwork is better, and they are different type of frets. I remember my 06' Gibson LP had these square-ish frets that were ok, but kinda weird feeling when bending notes and what-not. Fret-board drag here and there, and a sticky/tacky neck. Could never get it right. And and a very nor here, nor there type of neck profile. I can't tell you how many newer, to brand new Gibson LP's that I play/played at stores that feel this way. And I don't even really like the Historic guitars that much either. Some of the necks are so fat that its almost done just for a conversation piece, IMO. and the whole accurate "binding bleed", and inconsistant "details", just not my thing. And the price is ludicrous. My Elitist spoils the fun of other guitars for me. Especially Les Pauls. This Elitist, and a few other Standard Plus' that I've played, have the most incredible neck profiles, nice and round, but with purpose in reason, and taper right where they should. Nice fretwork, rounded frets, beautiful rosewood boards with NO fretboard drag. Smooth like glass neck too. Solid substantial feeling necks, that feel so stable its crazy. Perfect finish-work, and the sound is killer too. An absolute refreshing joy to play. Renders most other LP's useless, to me.

BUT, you did say USA Hamer. I Played a USA Hamer Special the other day that impressed me as much as my Elitist. Loved it, absolutely. Hamer USA makes REAL guitars. Maybe not always as pretty as some PRS guitars, but the quality doesn't get any better for a production guitar! (Is Hamer considered Custom now? or always was/is?)

[PunkerJon]

OK needlespauls, but I don't recall having sticky neck issues on any of my guitars. and haven't had issues with my frets or fretboard drag either. Neck profiles seem to be all over the place on many guitars, but so are players preferences. I think other than the Hamers, all of the neck profiles on my guitars are different, and sometimes I love the neck on my R8, and sometimes I don't, but thats cuz sometimes I get bad cramps in my thumbs and wrist from years of abuse on bicycles as well as my current job. The only place where I have seen "bad" Gibsons is at GC, and those have always been abused floor models. I wonder where you all are trying these guitars out at? I have been fortunate to have great places to buy my guitars (new and used) and have never felt I got an inferior poorly made Gibson. And I have always got good deals on them so they were not ludicrously priced IMO. Thanks for your reply, it good that you love your guitars as much as I do.

[-=[Shifty]=-]

Well, I don't have an Elitist, but I own two MIJ Tokais.
The thing with the MIJ LPs is, they give you Gibson Historic quality for a fraction of the price.
I've recently played three Historics ('09 R8, '07 R0 (NOS), used '01 R8) and my Tokais were right up there with them.
The only real differences were the finish and the weight.
Now, for what I payed for both of my Tokais combined, I couldn't even get a new Gibson USA Standard.

[hbucker]

The phrase "you MIJ guys..." indicates that this may be some sort of adversarial thing for you. It isn't for me. I'm not a "MIJ guy". I'm a "good guitar guy". If it happens to be made in Japan, then so-be-it. No doubt a good setup will affect the playability of a guitar. I think my original post on this thread indicated that sentiment, so we can agree on that.

As somebody else said, I can only report my personal experience.

[PunkerJon]

No it's not an "adversarial thing" for me at all... I was just asking what "play better" meant, and am still I'm not sure I understand how well crafted MIJ guitar that is set up properly will "play better" than well crafted, properly set up guitar that is made in the USA. It seems like personal preference and justification of cost to me. I'm sure if I bought a MIJ LP it would play the same as my other guitars because they all get set up the same. I probably won't be buying an MIJ LP anytime soon either, because I like to play a guitar before I buy it, and the only used MIJ LPs I have seen were pretty crappy but they were probably low end models as they had bolt on necks.

[needlespauls]

Originally Posted by PunkerJon

No it's not an "adversarial thing" for me at all... I was just asking what "play better" meant, and am still I'm not sure I understand how well crafted MIJ guitar that is set up properly will "play better" than well crafted, properly set up guitar that is made in the USA. It seems like personal preference and justification of cost to me. I'm sure if I bought a MIJ LP it would play the same as my other guitars because they all get set up the same. I probably won't be buying an MIJ LP anytime soon either, because I like to play a guitar before I buy it, and the only used MIJ LPs I have seen were pretty crappy but they were probably low end models as they had bolt on necks.

The thing is, I would buy any Elitist without playing it, as long as there were no breaks or issues because the quality and consistancy is that good. And like I mentioned before, the necks are so nicely carved and comfortably shaped. It has nothing to do with set-up. Once you try one, you'll know.

[MIJ]

Originally Posted by PunkerJon

No it's not an "adversarial thing" for me at all... I was just asking what "play better" meant, and am still I'm not sure I understand how well crafted MIJ guitar that is set up properly will "play better" than well crafted, properly set up guitar that is made in the USA. It seems like personal preference and justification of cost to me. I'm sure if I bought a MIJ LP it would play the same as my other guitars because they all get set up the same. I probably won't be buying an MIJ LP anytime soon either, because I like to play a guitar before I buy it, and the only used MIJ LPs I have seen were pretty crappy but they were probably low end models as they had bolt on necks.

Dude, you have some of the most expensive Gibson models. Clearly they should be on par with Elitists in 'playability' or whatever else.

My Elitist will kick the ass of any standard Gibson in terms of quality and feel. It was built to be comparable to one of the $5000 custom Gibsons and it is.

Low end Epiphones have nothing in common with Elitists.

[MIJ]

Originally Posted by needlespauls

The thing is, I would buy any Elitist without playing it, as long as there were no breaks or issues because the quality and consistancy is that good. And like I mentioned before, the necks are so nicely carved and comfortably shaped. It has nothing to do with set-up. Once you try one, you'll know.

I have now bought two without playing them and the first one is great. The second is still on the way.

[MaiL3sP4ul]

I'm really diggin an Elitist Ebony Custom, that would be sweet, Keep talkin guys, I'm learning a lot

[MaiL3sP4ul]

Sorry to double post but...

So I guess my question now is.. If you take an Elitist and a USA Gibson, you give them both a nice setup they will play equally? That seems to be the arguement here... Can someone help me?

[psudude24]

I bought mine out of the back of a guy's pickup outside of a Macy's in South Jersey. I had my reservations but basically, I had my mind made up before I got there just on the reputation of the elitist line. Elitists are good guitars for the money and it's easier to part with $700-$800 as compared to $1600-$1800 (for most people anyways). If I had/ have a lump sum of expendable cash, would I buy a Gibson or Epiphone? Probably a Gibby but in defense of the elitists, I feel that in the context of amateur musicians, the quality of the elitists provide more than enough guitar. If an elitist meets your needs and you're genuinely happy with it, then it was a worthwhile investment.

[PunkerJon]

Originally Posted by MIJ

Dude, you have some of the most expensive Gibson models. Clearly they should be on par with Elitists in 'playability' or whatever else.

Hardly... I have an R8 Standard, and an R0 SPECIAL. I have seen USA models that cost more than my historics. My USA model is an SG that I got new for less than $700 and surprisingly it came with a HSC. There are no issues with "quality and feel" as far as I can tell.

[needlespauls]

Originally Posted by MaiL3sP4ul

Sorry to double post but...

So I guess my question now is.. If you take an Elitist and a USA Gibson, you give them both a nice setup they will play equally? That seems to be the arguement here... Can someone help me?

Not sure if thats really the argument or not.
I think what you'll get with Elitists is that you can buy any Elitist out there as long as it hasn't been abused, and they are all for the most part so perfect, its pretty amazing.

Remember, its not just the "quality" of the finish and build that makes an Elitist so good...............
Its the quality of materials AND construction methods.
SOLID mahogany bodies, long neck tenon, quarter-sawn necks, real mother of pearl inlays, real bone nuts, ABR-1 bridge, someone else can pitch in if they like lol, these are decked out for the price!
The only thing inferior in an Elitist is the switch and jack. These are NOT American made, as the spec's may have once stated. These are made in Japan switches and jacks, and no, they are not as good as what's stock in a Gibson Les Paul Standard. Switchcraft is a cheap and good upgrade for an Elitist, and come on, very very low cost but nice modification.
And the finish with the Elitist line is a very thin poly finish, you don't have to baby it as much as nitro, and its smooth as glass. Feels great. Not slow and sticky at all.

I think the argument here is that many of us on this board that have played or owned both Gibson Les Pauls and Elitist Les Pauls feel that the Elitist line is a better constructed guitar, and with better playing and feeling necks. Why is it that anyone thats ever played and bought an Elitist has a refreshing revelation with how much better the playing experience is?
My Elitist wasn't really "set-up" that great when I found it, brand new off the rack. All I did was grab it off the rack with my fret-hand, and thats all I needed. Seriously, holding the guitar with my left hand, picking it up off of the rack at a guitar store, didn't even have it on my lap yet. Sold. The fret shape is friendlier, the finish on the neck is friendlier, the profile is universally perfect, the fretboards are beautiful and playable, and the neck feels so solid and stable. Hell, the rest of the guitar is beautiful too, lol, and these guitars ring out so loud unplugged too, its crazy.
Its not about justifying the purchase of an Elitist. Again, I sold my Gibson in order to purchase my Elitist.
Any guitar can be "set-up" properly. But its how the guitar was made, and with what, that makes it FEEL great, and more PLAYABLE!

[MaiL3sP4ul]

Wow needlespauls, your the man.

I guess I have my mind made up than, I'm hopefully going to a guitar store tomorrow to try out some guitars, they carry a bunch of Gibsons, Epis, hopefully I maybe can find an Elitist, that would be sweet. If not I'll play as many of the USA Gibsons as I can find, that will be a good pinpoint on what a grand or so will get me compared to a MIJ LP, such as an Elitist.

I'm hoping that (with all the hype here about Elitists) they just absolutly set my hair on fire. I've never had a guitar do that to me before and I really want that experience (no not my hair catching on fire), but just coming alive in my hands and playing a great guitar that will last me a lifetime.

I was talking to one of my friends today about the Elitist line, telling him how their "Epiphones" and how they supposedly rival the Gibby Standards, Classics, etc. He pretty much gave me the Epiphone schpeal about how they are inferior guitars, and how they suck just because they are bearing the Epiphone name. I think it would be a very cool experience just to show him how wonderful these guitars are built, how they play, and how they kick @$$. I would really just love to find one, pick it up, and it blow the socks off me once I start to play it, (or as needles said: "pick it up off the shelf")

Overall from what I've gathered I really need one, hopefully the Elitist will not even compare to my Epi LP Standard Plus top. Or to a USA Gibson as far as I'm concerned... Feel free to comment on my soapbox speech.

[needlespauls]

Your friend needs to try one, and do the research.
These guitars are built at the Fuji-Gen factory in Japan, one of the most acclaimed factories in the entire world for producing guitars. They have nothing in common with the standard Chinese or Korean made Epiphones. Nothing other than the shape, really.

Its a good thing if you can get your hands on as many Gibsons as possible. I can't stress how great older Studio's feel, play and sound. Just solid, solid, work-horse no-nonsense guitars. They are not the "sexiest" looking things around though lol!
Don't laugh, but at around $1300 new, the Gibson Gary Moore BFG Les Paul is a fantastic guitar!!! The looks are not for everyone, but damn, they did it right! The Faded-satin finish is smooth and quick, and the P90 in the neck and Burstbucker 3 in the bridge is a killer combo!!! Comes with a hard-case too. KILLS the current Studios, in my opinion.
Things to look for with Gibson Les Pauls. Does the neck feel comfortable to you? How are the frets? Does the neck feel slow or blah (finish-wise)? Look at the fretboard binding around the 22nd fret, at the maple top. Did they do a shit job on the maple top 's nitro finish around the binding of the fretboard on all 3 edges? Is there fret-board drag no matter how its set-up?
Those are things I look for in a Gibson, and I hate to say it, but there are very few that pass this test for me. My buddies '79 Standard, and '96 Standard plain tops for some strange reason are great great killer guitars. I like them like I do my Elitist. For the reasons I mentioned above though, current USA standard line and even the Historic Reissues just don't give me wood. Oh well, once in a while, like with the Gary Moore BFG, and with a few SG VOS Custom Shops, there will be some great Gibson's.
Don't be surprised if the shops you go to don't have any Elitists in stock. But don't just jump at the nearest Gibson just because its there. Think about how good, or not, the guitars you test out might be, and spend wisely. If you are totally floored by a Gibson and there are no Elitists to try, and you've got the dough, go for it. But if you try a bunch of Gibsons and you're not floored by any, and they don't have any Elitists to try, don't blow the $800-$1800 "just because". I'd go on the ole' Bay, or Craigslist and find a nice new or used Elitist, and just pull the trigger. You'll be surprised, and I think very very pleased. If you go that route and you are not completely happy, just let me know and I'll punch my own balls. Hows that for an endorsement lol!!!
Either way, I don't think you can lose. There are some good Gibbies out there.