QUESTION: Is this a Japanese Epiphone Les Paul?

[FoxhoundXIII]

Hi guys im new here in the forums. Is it possible for you guys to help me figure this one out? Im planning on buying this guitar i found in an online site. It has an open book headstock with Epiphone as its brand. Truss rod cover with 2 screws and a standard written on it. and Les Paul model written in the headstock. on the back of its head stock, its serial number are 7 digits. 2063397. (no letter prefix so im assuming its from Fujigen) im not sure though whether it was from 1992 or 1982. and MMK is written on the back of its pickups so maybe it means matsumoku. so my questions are:
1.) is this japanese of korean? (cause i entered the serial number on guitar dater project and its says that its 1992 and korean but i think its not reliable. and also if ever this was korean 1982, im not sure cause the screws on the truss rod cover has 2 screws only)
2.) when was this made? (the 2 on the serial number may indivate 1992 or 1982)
3.) what does the Open Book headstock indicate? (where there korean epiphone les pauls with open book headstocks? if not then maybe it really is japanese)
4.) lastly, should i buy this beauty?

Here are the pictures:

[savage118]

According to guitar dater:


Your guitar was made in
Korea
June c.1992
Production Number: 3397

The headstock looks Korean, I bet there used to be a three screw truss rod cover before.
But if you like it, and the price is right, get it.

[FoxhoundXIII]

yeap i checked it also in guitar dater updater too. but im not really sure with that though. cause it has a openbook headstock. does korea do openbook headstocks?

[djwilbanks]

Interesting. Here's the thing, its not an 82, because they didn't make Epiphone LPs in 82. Its probably not a 92 because by then the MIK Epiphones had the currect headstocks. It is also probably not Koren because the headstock is more closely related to the true openbook headstock and not the tapered Open book of late-eight/early-ninety model MIKs.

That said, it looks like it has a multi-piece neck, and the knobs seem off a bit, and the cutaway seems very wide. Until I get verification from members lp_junkie, GNR4EVR, and Sinmastah, I would recommend you be wary of this guitar. The MIJ craftsmanship just doesn't seem to be there.

Also, I'm not saying it is fake, I'm just uncertain as to its origins. All of those things I pointed out could be hallmarks of early MIJ or even MIK... I'm just saying something doesn't add up here.

[Akahito]

There was no Epiphone production in Japan until 1998, and a 2002 serial number would begin with 02. That would rule out the Japan option.

[FoxhoundXIII]

2002? but there wouldnt be anymore openbook headstocks by then.

[savage118]

Originally Posted by FoxhoundXIII

yeap i checked it also in guitar dater updater too. but im not really sure with that though. cause it has a openbook headstock. does korea do openbook headstocks?

Kind of. The horns, or corners of the pages if you prefer are not as pointed on the Korean's. They were only made that way for a couple years or so. So it is fairly uncommon. I have heard they are decent guitars though. But that is just from reading other posts about them. Looks to be in nice shape though.

[Kølabrennern]

I think the ABR-1 bridge would identify it as Japanese, never saw any Korean made guitars with that before.

[FoxhoundXIII]

Originally Posted by savage118

According to guitar dater:


Your guitar was made in
Korea
June c.1992
Production Number: 3397

The headstock looks Korean, I bet there used to be a three screw truss rod cover before.
But if you like it, and the price is right, get it.

the screws on the truss rod cover looks legit though. it doesnt seem to be changed and who would do that? thanks for the help though. im not just sure if korea made openbook headstocks during the early 90s.

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by Kølabrennern

I think the ABR-1 bridge would identify it as Japanese, never saw any Korean made guitars with that before.

That's true, but given what little we know of this particular guitar, that could have been changed. I put an ABR-1 on my BFG whereas it had a Nashville stock.

While I am leaning toward calling MIJ on it, something still seems strange.

[FoxhoundXIII]

Originally Posted by djwilbanks

Interesting. Here's the thing, its not an 82, because they didn't make Epiphone LPs in 82. Its probably not a 92 because by then the MIK Epiphones had the currect headstocks. It is also probably not Koren because the headstock is more closely related to the true openbook headstock and not the tapered Open book of late-eight/early-ninety model MIKs.

That said, it looks like it has a multi-piece neck, and the knobs seem off a bit, and the cutaway seems very wide. Until I get verification from members lp_junkie, GNR4EVR, and Sinmastah, I would recommend you be wary of this guitar. The MIJ craftsmanship just doesn't seem to be there.

Also, I'm not saying it is fake, I'm just uncertain as to its origins. All of those things I pointed out could be hallmarks of early MIJ or even MIK... I'm just saying something doesn't add up here.

ive been wondering about this guitar for a week now. its really hard to figure out cause its made well. doesnt look fake. and im not sure if the knobs were really a little bit off.

[savage118]

If you look at the picture of the back of the headstock, dead ringer for Korean. Guitardater says Korean. Mystery solved.

[Kølabrennern]

I also think what appears to be a 3-piece neck is a little funny. Never saw any Epi like that.

I think I'd buy it just out of curiosity, looks like an interesting guitar, and the fact that it really looks played should mean that it's worthy of being used.

[FoxhoundXIII]

the seller also informed me that there was MMK written on the pickups. does this stand for matsumoku? im not sure.

[savage118]

But look closely at the front headstock picture, do I see photoshop work? I could be wrong. But it is very black and new looking compared to rest/ age of guitar. And there looks like a dark outline of the Korean shape. Or I could be totaly wrong.

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by FoxhoundXIII

ive been wondering about this guitar for a week now. its really hard to figure out cause its made well. doesnt look fake. and im not sure if the knobs were really a little bit off.

Oh yeah, there is one knob all the way out by itself, knobs are definitely off.

Originally Posted by savage118

If you look at the picture of the back of the headstock, dead ringer for Korean. Guitardater says Korean. Mystery solved.

Then explain the openbook headstock. Its not slim enough to be an 89-91 MIK and it doesn't appear modified. Also MIKs of the time would have a sticker Serial, not an inked one.

Originally Posted by Kølabrennern

I also think what appears to be a 3-piece neck appears a little funny. Never saw any Epi like that.

I think I'd buy it just out of curiosity, looks like an interesting guitar, and the fact that it really looks played should mean that it's worthy of being used.

I think if the price was right, I would buy it, it does look like an interesting piece.. but that multi-piece neck does raise some questions.... heck, the whole guitar raises some questions.

[FoxhoundXIII]

no photoshop done. just used a pretty high quality camera

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by savage118

But look closely at the front headstock picture, do I see photoshop work? I could be wrong. But it is very black and new looking compared to rest/ age of guitar. And there looks like a dark outline of the Korean shape. Or I could be totaly wrong.

I see what you mean on the front picture, but the back picture doesn't look like wood was added or reshaped... or manipulated in PS.

[FoxhoundXIII]

added a pic of the back of the body. yeah i think its a threepiece neck too. what do you guys think it indicates?

[Akahito]

Originally Posted by FoxhoundXIII

2002? but there wouldnt be anymore openbook headstocks by then.

Exactly: It isn't made in Japan. The serial number refers to 1992, and no Epiphones were made in Japan at that time. Like I said, production in Japan began in 1998. Also, Epiphone began the production of the Les Pauls in Korea in 1986, so the guitar cannot be from 1982. The guitar was made in Korea in 1992.

[FoxhoundXIII]

so its korean..... but why no prefix on its serial?

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by Akahito

Exactly: It isn't made in Japan. The serial number refers to 1992, and no Epiphones were made in Japan at that time. Like I said, production in Japan began in 1998. Your guitar was made in Korea in 1992.

Then someone explain why the headstock is shaped like a true open book? They didn't make those in Korea anymore than they made open-books after they started making Elitists.

[FoxhoundXIII]

hmmmmm. really having a tough time. seller says its japan made.

[alexvdl]

The shape of the headstock, trusrod, body and the long neck tenon with screw reminds me of e late 70's aria pro II.

[savage118]

Ok. I call shenanagens( South Park reference). I would like to see a picture of the entire front of the guitar. The front headstock pic does LOOK MIJ, but the back pic looks Korean to me. And does nobody else see the line on the headstock pick I see? I think MAYBE those two headstocks arent one in the same. Or photoshop. Just MY opinion.

[Akahito]

Originally Posted by djwilbanks

Then someone explain why the headstock is shaped like a true open book? They didn't make those in Korea anymore than they made open-books after they started making Elitists.

When the Orville production was changed to Epiphone in 1998, there were some overlapping serial numbers between Epiphone and Orville. I know nothing about Orville serial numbering, so I assume there is a slight chance it could be a transitional model from 1998, but this is purely guessing. Knowing the headstock angle would tell us a lot. At any rate, if the seller has owned the guitar for 11 years or knows the guitar is older than that, it is not made in Japan. Then we would have to accept the fact it has an open book headstock. Also notice the neck is three-piece like a Norlin. I was under the impression the MIJ's all had one-piece necks.

[FoxhoundXIII]

nobody here in the philippines would even try do that though.

[FoxhoundXIII]

i was trying to point that out to the seller and insited that it truly wasnt made in japan but he kept on bugging me and wouldnt lower the price. hahahaha. but it would had been amazing if it truly was a japanese guitar. the serial number is still bugging me though. no prefix means fujigen right? im not familiar with orville serial numbering too so im not quite sure.

[Akahito]

Originally Posted by FoxhoundXIII

i was trying to point that out to the seller and insited that it truly wasnt made in japan but he kept on bugging me and wouldnt lower the price. hahahaha. but it would had been amazing if it truly was a japanese guitar. the serial number is still bugging me though. no prefix means fujigen right? im not familiar with orville serial numbering too so im not quite sure.

Fujigen is in Japan. Did the seller indicate that he knew how old the guitar was, or guessed by the serial number?

[FoxhoundXIII]

i know thats why im not so sure if it really is korean. if it really was korean, a prefix that indicates it truly is from korea would had been there.