The Fake Epiphone Thread II

[Sinmastah]

I wouldn't trust the first one, but second looks nice and legit.

[Guitarsquirrel7]

Originally Posted by groomvroom

Ok well this one at least had a happy ending, in no small part thanks to you guys. I believe this was a genuine mistake on the part of the seller and the guitar was a gift she had had for some time and was none the wiser, we came to an amicable agreement and I got to keep the guitar as starter for my 13 year old son, who will be well chuffed, I will how ever make it very clear to him that its a fake! Now I am on the lookout for a real one, trawling through eBay, I reported two sellers for selling obvious fakes, i did come across these two though, what do you think?

Epiphone Les Paul Custom Black Beauty on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 13-Mar-09 21:06:29 GMT)

and

Epiphone black beauty 3 seymour duncans! on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 14-Mar-09 23:02:23 GMT)

On the first one, it has a Gibson TRC, would epiphones have those?

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Guitarsquirrel7

On the first one, it has a Gibson TRC, would epiphones have those?

Customs under certain years. Not sure which, that will take some homework. And sometimes, people change them to Gibsons also.
Both guitars appear good, but that first looks way too new to be 8 years old, and he went out of his way to hide the box, it might not even be an Epi box.

[purevilpleasure]

Originally Posted by GNR4EVR

Customs under certain years. Not sure which, that will take some homework. And sometimes, people change them to Gibsons also.
Both guitars appear good, but that first looks way too new to be 8 years old, and he went out of his way to hide the box, it might not even be an Epi box.

Also the Korean's had the Gibson TRC's My standard plus top korean has the Gibson trc. Seen quite a few around here that are the same.

[purevilpleasure]

Originally Posted by groomvroom

Ok well this one at least had a happy ending, in no small part thanks to you guys. I believe this was a genuine mistake on the part of the seller and the guitar was a gift she had had for some time and was none the wiser, we came to an amicable agreement and I got to keep the guitar as starter for my 13 year old son, who will be well chuffed, I will how ever make it very clear to him that its a fake! Now I am on the lookout for a real one, trawling through eBay, I reported two sellers for selling obvious fakes, i did come across these two though, what do you think?

Epiphone Les Paul Custom Black Beauty on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 13-Mar-09 21:06:29 GMT)

and

Epiphone black beauty 3 seymour duncans! on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 14-Mar-09 23:02:23 GMT)

I see that second one has the "Epi" Bigsby. They are fun to play. My standard has one on it. This one is the 5th one I've seen with it on.

[Brachy8]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

Hi - I dont want to ruin your day but I think you'll find that the general consensus of opinion about the guitar dater site is that at best it is of limited use to give info about genuine guitars.

I dont think you can conclude that if you type your number in and it comes back with some info that guarantees your guitar is genuine.

The serial numbers follow a logical pattern - 1st two digits denote factory, next 2 denote year, next two denote month, last group denote sequence number of guitar within month. Therefore it is not beyond the wit of the counterfeiters to make up numbers which come back with an apparent genuine set of info. In no way does this guarantee that it actually matches up to your guitar. This is why the site is so misleading.

Also - counterfeiters are clever - knocking up a cardboard box a tag and a user manual is easily within their capability. Check your user manual for page sequence accuracy - the first two pages of info had been transposed on mine i.e page 2 was actualy page 1 and vice versa. Also the print quality was very poor. Would Epiphone themselves make this mistake?

I suggest you may want to post pics of your guitar on this site or a link to your ebay advert for the senior members to look at before you conclude that your guitar is OK. I hope I'm wrong - but I have a nasty feeling.

Hi there, thank you for your concern however, whilst I agree that the serial number can be 'cloned' quite easily, the feel, sound and finish of the guitar, I would suggest, cannot.
I have been a guitar player since 1958 and have owned more than a few Epiphone and Gibson models. The worst instrument I ever owned being a walnut (?) Gibson 335 which was just awful. This LP plays beautifully, sounds just fine and will be part of my estate when I finally 'shuffle off this mortal coil'. (Die, dudes)
If this instrument is a fake Epiphone LP, then so be it. I didn't buy it to profit from its future value. By the way, the owner's manual is just fine, no blurred printing, pages all in order etc. It could still be counterfeit of course. Damned clever these Chinese.
I have to say that, having had a good browse around e-bay for EP LP's, there does seem to be rather a high number of Black Beauties, all boxed etc. floating around.
I picked the guitar up in person from, would you believe a young chinese lady in Edinburgh, Scotland. What that implies, I am not quite sure.
By the way, what is the definition of 'fake' which is used on this forum?
Cheers

[Brachy8]

Originally Posted by River

He just may not be who you think he is.

Hi River, Oh I am who I say I am. Check out my latest post to Generic Clapham.
Peace Brother.

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by Brachy8

]
By the way, what is the definition of 'fake' which is used on this forum?
Cheers

This is a hard question to answer, but I believe, as far as we fake spotters are concerned, fakes are defined as being non-licensed, mass produced guitars with logos from companies that did not okay the use of their trademarks and copyrights on said guitars. These guitars are generally built with cheaper materials and worse handiwork than the guitars they are cloning.

I've heard it said that some of the fakes are close to Epiphone quality, that's fine with me. I don't care if they're good guitars, I care that if I buy an Epiphone I want an Epiphone. If they're good enough guitars they should stand on their own merit.

Now when it comes to Gibson fakes, I'm a bit tougher on them. They're selling 300 dollar fakes, with the MADE IN USA stamped into the back of the headstock and claiming to be a Gibson OEM.

[Generic Clapham]

Hi Brachy8 - I'm pleased to see that you came back. I'm also happy that you are content with your purchase. I guess your guitar is not a counterfeit after all.

It just shows you how wrong you can be (me I mean) and how you shouldnt jump to conclusions. I felt sure that the first text page (actually page 3) in your manual would start (as the one which accompanied my fake did) with the sentence "and the tailpiece in place with no tools needed!" which is actually supposed to come after the wrongly ordered second text page (page 4) which ends with "And now our updated patent pending design, AUTO-LOCKS the bridge"

People were just concerned that your purchase may be a fake and wanted to let you know. I'm not pushing but would you be prepared to allow links to be posted to your eBay sale on here so we can at least all have a look at what you bought. A genuine epiphone from ebay seems quite a rarity these days

Have fun playing it - sounds like you got a good one.

[gazaboy1]

This forum has totally put me off buyin guitars from Ebay and i now will be goin to a local shop or what about online like that thoman ? Lookin for a epipi les paul and just want one that will be geniune .If a guitar is retailing at £430 how can ebay sellars sell for Average prices of £200 without being fake

[Generic Clapham]

Hi - I've a question for all you longstanding members on this thread. Do you know if Gibson/Epiphone ever monitor these threads or have a presence on them at all?

Do they ever chip in advice or pm the victims of counterfeit selling to ask for further details?

Has anyone heard whether they proactively and rigorously pursue the ebay scammers and the counterfeit production manufacturers?

Do you senior guys have an official contact in Gibson/Epiphone who you feed tipoffs to?

Its obvious to me from my few days here that a lot of members on this forum care passionately about the Gibson/Epiphone guitar brands and dont want to see that passion, and their own guitar residuals,eroded as a result of counterfeit products flooding the market and the uncertainty and confusion amongst buyers that generates.

The senior members here appear to put in a great deal of work and time to give advice all for no financial recompense.

eBay appear to be attempting to prevent counterfeit selling through their eBay against Counterfeits initiative. I realise there are a number of views as to how hard they are actually trying and whether in reality they even feel that it is in their interests, but at least they are paying lipservice to it.

I see a number of organisations are signed up in partnership to eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Programme - designed so rights owners can report listings that infringe their rights. Well known organisations are involved including the likes of Fender.

What I cant see is any official involvement from Gibson or Epiphone. Come on guys if you are reading this - please engage. Don't you feel that you owe it both to your loyal existing customers, and to your potential new ones, to prevent people getting ripped of when they are trying to buy your products? Or are you just content to leave it to the good folk here?

:CLIMBSDOWNOFFSOAPBOX:

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

Hi - I've a question for all you longstanding members on this thread. Do you know if Gibson/Epiphone ever monitor these threads or have a presence on them at all?

Do they ever chip in advice or pm the victims of counterfeit selling to ask for further details?

Has anyone heard whether they proactively and rigorously pursue the ebay scammers and the counterfeit production manufacturers?

Do you senior guys have an official contact in Gibson/Epiphone who you feed tipoffs to?

Its obvious to me from my few days here that a lot of members on this forum care passionately about the Gibson/Epiphone guitar brands and dont want to see that passion, and their own guitar residuals,eroded as a result of counterfeit products flooding the market and the uncertainty and confusion amongst buyers that generates.

The senior members here appear to put in a great deal of work and time to give advice all for no financial recompense.

eBay appear to be attempting to prevent counterfeit selling through their eBay against Counterfeits initiative. I realise there are a number of views as to how hard they are actually trying and whether in reality they even feel that it is in their interests, but at least they are paying lipservice to it.

I see a number of organisations are signed up in partnership to eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Programme - designed so rights owners can report listings that infringe their rights. Well known organisations are involved including the likes of Fender.

What I cant see is any official involvement from Gibson or Epiphone. Come on guys if you are reading this - please engage. Don't you feel that you owe it both to your loyal existing customers, and to your potential new ones, to prevent people getting ripped of when they are trying to buy your products? Or are you just content to leave it to the good folk here?

:CLIMBSDOWNOFFSOAPBOX:

Gibson/Epi do not provide any input here, though Ive been told theres some folks watching from there.
We have, through trial and error and a whole lot of self research, learned and are passing on what we learn, thats all.

[nubbington]

Hi, new to the forums and would greatly appreciate some input!

Didn't really think anything was wrong but reading these threads has made me a tad paranoid. Any opinions as to the authenticity of this epi BB would be awesome.

Epiphone Les Paul Custom Black Beauty3 W/OHSC MIKorea! - eBay (item 120389235520 end time Mar-10-09 18:58:31 PDT)

Thanks!

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by nubbington

Hi, new to the forums and would greatly appreciate some input!

Didn't really think anything was wrong but reading these threads has made me a tad paranoid. Any opinions as to the authenticity of this epi BB would be awesome.

Epiphone Les Paul Custom Black Beauty3 W/OHSC MIKorea! - eBay (item 120389235520 end time Mar-10-09 18:58:31 PDT)

Thanks!

Its good.

[nubbington]

thanks much

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by nubbington

thanks much

And welcome to the forums.

[Brachy8]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

Its a shame, but I dont think Brachy8 hung around long enough to read any of the replies to his post. According to the site stats he posted and then just left - so I dont think he will know that his guitar is fake - he'll assume that the guitar dater proj site proved it wasn't.

I'll try and message him thru eBay to suggest he returns to read the responses.

Hi there, well, I guess I have to eat my words, I have just returned the fake EP LP BB from whence it came. Having spent all day yesterday trawling through this forum and web sites from here to yonder, I decided that Reh and Generic Clapham were correct.
In particular I have to thank GC for the useful link to the Chinese wholesale supplier web site which, I have to say, made my eyes water. It's definitely worth a look, just don't buy anything! I have also raised a dispute procedure both with e-bay UK and Paypal which may have results in barring this particular trader. I see that he appears to have generated another e-bay alias based in the fountainbridge area of Edinburgh.
During my researches yesterday, I also sent an e-mail to the Gibson, China support team asking if they could provide details of where certain Serial number batches had been delivered to. They probably will not supply these to me however, my contacts in the Scottish Musical Instrument Retail Association may have more luck. Anyhoo, to all those who, like myself, have been stung try and remember, even in the heat of LP lust, if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is...
Peace Brothers

[Generic Clapham]

Thanks for reporting back Brachy - I was kinda worried that we'd got it badly wrong there for a minute. I'm sorry to hear that you were stung but, as discussed, hopefully it will turn out OK for you in the end.

I had to smile at the results when I typed "EE10089999" into the Epiphone part of the guitar dater project site

The Guitar Dater Project - Epiphone Serial Number Decoder


Its hot here in Spain today, Im going to take a rest from guitar research now and sit and reflect on my roof terrace with a nice cold glass of San Miguel.

Be careful out there guys - watch out theres a scammer about.

GENuine ERIC

Rick.

[Lynyrd77Skynyrd]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

Its hot here in Spain today, Im going to take a rest from guitar research now and sit and reflect on my roof terrace with a nice cold glass of San Miguel.

Nobody likes a show off

[Generic Clapham]

You my friend are only jealous as it always rains in Sheffield, England! If you sat outside dinking beer it would last forever

[Lynyrd77Skynyrd]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

You my friend are only jealous as it always rains in Sheffield, England! If you sat outside dinking beer it would last forever

Refer to my previous post in reply to that comment lol.
.......You have a point though

[Generic Clapham]

Epiphone Les Paul Custom Vintage Sunburst on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 14-Mar-09 21:30:00 GMT)


Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty Electric Guitar on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 16-Mar-09 21:30:00 GMT)

Fakes? Two more unhappy buyers I fear - check out this sellers completed listings too for others.

[Generic Clapham]

Eiphone les paul custom electric guitar Black beauty!!! on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 18-Mar-09 21:15:35 GMT)

Eiphone les paul Zakk Wylde Bullseye Electric on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 17-Mar-09 21:30:00 GMT)

and again these two? Come on you fake hunters what do you say?

And come on Gibson/Epiphone - register for eBay's vero initiative and get these removed !!!!

[-=[Shifty]=-]

All 4 Fakes...again a Bullzeye with toggle switch plate. Didn't check their listings, though.... Geez, I'm getting tired!

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

Epiphone Les Paul Custom Vintage Sunburst on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 14-Mar-09 21:30:00 GMT)


Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty Electric Guitar on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 16-Mar-09 21:30:00 GMT)

Fakes? Two more unhappy buyers I fear - check out this sellers completed listings too for others.

All fake.

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Generic Clapham

Eiphone les paul custom electric guitar Black beauty!!! on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 18-Mar-09 21:15:35 GMT)

Eiphone les paul Zakk Wylde Bullseye Electric on eBay, also Epiphone, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 17-Mar-09 21:30:00 GMT)

and again these two? Come on you fake hunters what do you say?

And come on Gibson/Epiphone - register for eBay's vero initiative and get these removed !!!!

All fake also.

[PowerDude]

Any thoughts?
Looks like the seller is legit....

2008 Epiphone Elitist Tak Matsumoto Tak Burst Les Paul - eBay (item 140307560192 end time Mar-16-09 13:01:40 PDT)

[Sinmastah]

Good, but overpriced.

[Generic Clapham]

EPIPHONE LES PAUL CUSTOM EBONY. EB. Guitarra Eléctrica. en venta en eBay.es (finaliza el 28-mar-09 11:25:49 H.Esp)

Guitarra Eléctrica. EPIPHONE LES PAUL CUSTOM PLUS. en venta en eBay.es (finaliza el 17-mar-09 21:10:06 H.Esp)

Heres a couple of guitars from one of my fellow countrymen - both of these look a bit dodgy to me (especially the second one), but some of his/her other sale items look like they may be ok.

Can we get a forum experts view on these two please GNR/Shifty/Sin/DJ ?

[Generic Clapham]

Thought I would post someting of a more lighthearted nature. If anyone thinks its inappropriate let me know and I'll remove it.


Just suppose Guys – A Senior Director within Gibson spotted this thread and was so impressed by the efforts of the stalwart members here in their fight against counterfeit Gibson/Epiphone products (thus maximising Gibson profits by ensuring all guitar sales were authentic Gibson ones, and also neatly sidestepping adverse publicity from intended Gibson customers who had been scammed), that he decided to award a top of the range Gibson/Epiphone guitar, of their own choice, to a selection of the members.

If he emailed or rang you – what would you choose? Model and finish etc.
Give it some thought and feed back here – you might as well be ready in case the call comes!
Hell, you wouldn’t want to settle for a lowly Les Paul 100 in your surprise – when with hindsight you really wished you’d asked for something a bit more special.

This would be better in a separate thread but as a lowly "junior member" Im not allowed to open one