Polyeurethane Sucks!

[The_Sentry]

I "sort of" get why they put this stuff on the Epiphones. Cover up the cheaper wood...make the finish bulletproof. Sorry...it just doesn't look right. It looks like cheap plastic, and it makes the guitars look like cheap plastic pieces of crap. Polyeurethane is a great finish for floors...but guitars?

And as thick as they glob it on there?

I've owned Epiphones...good ones, and bad ones. Maybe it doesn't look too bad with a straight color...it still doesn't feel right. At all.

The most popular threads on this board? People sanding that crap off of their guitars. Seriously.

Hey Epiphone...what gives? Is it really that big of a burden to release a model that ISN'T covered with that crap?

Ibanez has a few. Fender has matte finishes on a lot of their import guitars...especially their acoustics.

Allright...so what's the deal? Aren't there better alternatives than buying...a guitar that looks...and feels....like BLOODY PLASTIC???

[nicolasrivera]

Even Surh guitars defend poly..... I really cant trust that opinion, poly is a huge tone sucker like it or not that is what it is, a have even started a refinish on my PRS!

Long life to Lacquer!!

[dudu]

I played poly finished guitars that sounded great and nitro finished guitars that sounded
like crap, so I won't say that poly makes or breaks the sound. But what I truly hate about
it is how it exfoliates under mechanical shock. Ding a poly finished guitar and watch the
paint going off around, like on a car.

[Solidbody]

My Epiphone Casino has a very thin poly finish and it looks and sounds good, my Les Paul junior has a thick poly finish - it sounds good but I would like to refinish it, I bet it would loose a few ounces !

[The_Sentry]

Originally Posted by Solidbody

My Epiphone Casino has a very thin poly finish and it looks and sounds good, my Les Paul junior has a thick poly finish - it sounds good but I would like to refinish it, I bet it would loose a few ounces !

Thin poly finishes...I get this. From an environmental perspective a lot of builders (at least in the US) are moving to polyeurethane finishes as it is getting more difficult on a commerical level to use other finishes like nitro or lacquer.

So some folks...like Suhr...are using the polyeurethane.

But it's not globbed on there. I think that's the difference. The Epiphone finishes have ridiculous amounts of finish on top of the guitars. I have no idea what the guitar REALLY sounds like underneath all of that gunk....

[exPFCWintergreen]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

. . . poly is a huge tone sucker like it or not that is what it is. . .

Evidence?

[Malikon]

My guitars feel and sound fine. Sorry you're unhappy with yours.

[msfenderarg]

I prefer poly to nitro, given it's not uber thick...not because of tone, but because thick poly tends to crack and fall off in chunks...

As for necks, again thin satin poly is my choice.





I have a hard time believing a plank of wood "breathes" at a hundred decibels...


YMMV IMO My .02 et cetera...

[msfenderarg]

Originally Posted by The_Sentry

Thin poly finishes...I get this. From an environmental perspective a lot of builders (at least in the US) are moving to polyeurethane finishes as it is getting more difficult on a commerical level to use other finishes like nitro or lacquer.

So some folks...like Suhr...are using the polyeurethane.

But it's not globbed on there. I think that's the difference. The Epiphone finishes have ridiculous amounts of finish on top of the guitars. I have no idea what the guitar REALLY sounds like underneath all of that gunk....

A couple of months ago I sold the only Epi I've ever owned, so maybe it is a hit or miss sorta thing, but the finish on that guitar was EXTRMELY THIN!

You could actually see the paint sinking into the grain!

[Kammo1]

Oh dear here we go with the nitro versus poly saga LOL!!!!!!!!Bro don't want to come across as a dick as opinions are like assholes and everyone has one but some of the greatest tones that our hero's banged out where guitars that were finished in poly coatings!!!!!!!!! I think you really need to Google what myths are around with the nitro versus poly and you will realise what is what................ For me I wouldn't even finish a guitar in nitro as it has absolutely no advantage in tone or as a protective coating it's the very last finish I'd use on a guitar! come to think of it I would sooner use Creosote that nitro LOL!!!!!!!! \m/

[WhippingPost]

Poly isn't as fragile as nitro, doesn't crack as easily with temperature fluctuations, and is relatively impervious to most common household chemicals. It's a superior finish.

[standard man]

I just like nitro better for the fact if doesnt feel like a toy. Im not a big fan of poly at all.

[Indyclone]

Polyurethane or Polyester?

I thought newer Epi's were polyester..

[Alex Moody]

Personally I loved the dipped in glass finish on my Epi and never really understood all the moaning about it.

[Kammo1]

Guys I could finish a guitar in poly or nitro and you wouldn't even tell the difference. What you need to understand is the factory produced guitars are applied in the normal manner and are cut back just enough that the imperfections are removed then it's off to the buffing room to get all shiny. The difference when small makers like myself and others do it you go the extra mile to level it out so it is nice and thin and in general I end up taking off more than 1/2 of what I put on! so the finish is a little thicker than a nitro piss thin finish but has the luster and durability that the nitro will never have. Oh and as far as anyone says that nitro helps the guitar to "breathe" is been sniffing too many "nitro" fumes ! I have never ever heard such bollocks put into one sentence in all my life...............!

[Gooner]

Originally Posted by Kammo1

Oh dear here we go with the nitro versus poly saga LOL!!!!!!!!Bro don't want to come across as a dick as opinions are like assholes and everyone has one but some of the greatest tones that our hero's banged out where guitars that were finished in poly coatings!!!!!!!!! I think you really need to Google what myths are around with the nitro versus poly and you will realise what is what................ For me I wouldn't even finish a guitar in nitro as it has absolutely no advantage in tone or as a protective coating it's the very last finish I'd use on a guitar! come to think of it I would sooner use Creosote that nitro LOL!!!!!!!! \m/

I think you are right, I seem to remember one of many threads on either OSG or FDP, where they were discussing either the white undercoat or sealant coating on pre CBS starts, and from what I remember this coating was poly. Personally I have both finishes and have no problem with either. I think that Sentry has a point also, where the coating is so thick it may be hiding something.

[Skit]

I'm sure it won't happen but I would like to see someone make some recordings using a poly finished guitar. Make note of all the settings. Better yet just dime everything save for volume. Then measure the string height and pickup height. Strip the poly off the guitar and reassemble at the same measurements (using new strings both times) and record the same again. I am willing to bet the difference in tone would be indiscernible.

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by exPFCWintergreen

Evidence?

Evidence??? if you want measured evidence hire a dam scientist to do it, but have refinished many poly to nitro guitars and guess what, that is my experience and every single one of the owner has said they can't believe what a difference in tone a simple refinish could do.

Have you refinish any guitars??? if not it is very difficult for you to understand this.

Even those companies that say a thin layer of poly is invisible to the ears they are lying... and yes thick or thin will break the same does not matter i have first hand experience to this.

Believe me or not, but Poly is a tone sucker.


AND don't tell me that feeling your guitar is not part of this whole experience, Poly feels like glass, nothing authentic and lacquer well, just makes the guitar feel more close to you if that makes any sense to you.

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by Barcham

You know that if the first guitars were finished in poly and then nitro came along, you'd be making the same arguments but in reverse.

If you are trying to tell me that a poly guitar played on stage through a pedal board, effects console and a stack of Marshalls, or whatever your fave amp might be, is going to sound different than a nitro finished guitar through the same setup, then I guess you have hearing that goes well beyond the normal human being.

YOu know what, a comment like that makes me wonder if what do you really feel for your guitar??? i mean for me its a personal bond with every single one of them, not just pieces of wood. Of course you could not tell a broom stick from a 59' LP through el metal zone pedal... Its not about that AT ALL.... it is how she responds when you are intimate with her, in your room relaxed. how she feels etc.

But i guess some guitar players don't care that much to what they play as long as it has 6 strings and a hole.--

[Grey]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

Evidence??? if you want measured evidence hire a dam scientist to do it, but have refinished many poly to nitro guitars and guess what, that is my experience and every single one of the owner has said they can't believe what a difference in tone a simple refinish could do.

That's called the placebo effect. You're expecting to a hear a difference so thats what you hear. There's no evidence for what you're saying, something isn't true just because you constantly repeat misinformation as fact.

I've never refinished a guitar but i've played and owned several which were Nitro, Poly, and other things in between.

[Malikon]

What did Mr. Les Paul say about guitars?

The object is to minimize all vibration, to make the guitar as hard and solid as possible so that all resonant vibration passes through the guitar and the sound is just pickups and strings.

Nitro is soft, Poly is not.

Poly is durable, Nitro is not.

Toy like? That's always a funny description because some of the nitro coated guitars I played felt cheap. Like something someone threw together in their basement and slapped some strings on.

Different strokes for different folks.

It's all subjective opinion. People that pay a bunch of money to have their guitars refinished in nitro are 100% of the time going to say, "it sounds better!"

What else are they going to say?, "I spent all this money and it sounds worse!"

Everyone who does some kind of upgrade on their guitars always says, "it sounds better/made an improvement."

It's a moot and circular argument over which is a better finish.

Play what you want to play and don't waste time worrying about others or what they play. Everyone just likes what they like anyway, which is why these discussions never go anywhere. People always feel whatever they own and play is 'superior' because somehow they've figured out things no one else has figured out. It's laughable and predictable.

Some people obsess over gear and other people just make music with whatever they have and leave the obsessing to,.....obsessive people.

At the end of the day you play your guitar or you don't. You make cool music or you don't.

Nothing else matters.

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by Grey

That's called the placebo effect. You're expecting to a hear a difference so thats what you hear. There's no evidence for what you're saying, something isn't true just because you constantly repeat misinformation as fact.

I've never refinished a guitar but i've played and owned several which were Nitro, Poly, and other things in between.

How does an IKEA furniture feels in your hand compared to an old table??

It is a very simple to comprehend....

[budg]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

Evidence??? if you want measured evidence hire a dam scientist to do it, but have refinished many poly to nitro guitars and guess what, that is my experience and every single one of the owner has said they can't believe what a difference in tone a simple refinish could do.

Have you refinish any guitars??? if not it is very difficult for you to understand this.

Even those companies that say a thin layer of poly is invisible to the ears they are lying... and yes thick or thin will break the same does not matter i have first hand experience to this.

Believe me or not, but Poly is a tone sucker.


AND don't tell me that feeling your guitar is not part of this whole experience, Poly feels like glass, nothing authentic and lacquer well, just makes the guitar feel more close to you if that makes any sense to you.

So you refinish guitars from poly to nitro? If yours isnt a biased opinion I dont know what is . The only noticable difference between the two is how they feel and wear.As far as tone sucking .... you are reaching my friend.

[Malikon]

.
meh,...guitars are pretty

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by Malikon

Everyone who does some kind of upgrade on their guitars always says, "it sounds better/made an improvement."

Really?? man that is so.....to say man, well guess you just have not experience anything so far....

[Grey]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

How does an IKEA furniture feels in your hand compared to an old table??

It is a very simple to comprehend....

Nitrocellulose and Polyesther/urethane are both plasticized lacquers, the idea that Nitro somehow lets wood "breathe" is a myth.

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by Grey

Nitrocellulose and Polyesther/urethane are both plasticized lacquers, the idea that Nitro somehow lets wood "breathe" is a myth.

And will continue to be until you buy a poly finished guitar and have it refinish to pure nitro....do that and let me know what you think....

[LSAR]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

Really?? man that is so.....to say man, well guess you just have not experience anything so far....

If you ever feel the need to return to school and relearn your spelling and grammar, please do not hesitate to do so.
And get over yourself, most people like things that look shinny and new, and not something soft, that they have to be careful with if they wish to keep it looking new.
There might be a very slight difference in tone between the two finishes, but I very highly doubt it's one most people can hear.

[Malikon]

*purse fight at 10 paces.

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by LSAR

If you ever feel the need to return to school and relearn your spelling and grammar, please do not hesitate to do so.

Sorry but unless you try to write in spanish, GFYS...