Help with Wiring Issue Please

[onlypadog]

Hi all

So I went ahead and did my planned mods - put in SD Humbuckers with 2 push/pull coil splits. I went basically for this diagram:

Wiring Diagram

But I wired 0.022 Bumblebees from the middle lugs of the volume pots to the end lugs of the tone pots, and grounded the middle lug on the tone pot instead of having them as the diagram. Was going for a combination of 50s wiring and push/pull...

So now, I have no sound at all from either pickup (only tested using screwdriver on the top trick and could do with some advice as to where I might have gone wrong..

Here's some photos...

First the finished article:



Then, as I was making up the basics:


Switch:


Anyone see anything glaringly obvious? this is my first attempt at modding a Les Paul....go easy on me

Thanks in advance

[Lizzy4Life]

Which pots are your volume pots? The push-pulls or the regular pots? Cause the push-pulls need to be the volume pots. You say you wired the caps from the middle lug of the v pot to the outer lug of the t pot, so looking at your picture I believe you've reversed v and t pot.
BTW great choice doing the 50's wiring! You won't regret it!

[captcoolaid]

+1

[WildeStarr]

Originally Posted by Lizzy4Life

Cause the push-pulls need to be the volume pots.

Wrong!
They can go in either position, volume or tone.

[SJM]

+1.^^ I know because I have it both ways and it works fine.

[Phildog]

Dumb question, but where do you have the leads from the switch going. It's a little difficult to see in the photo.

[SJM]

Originally Posted by Phildog

Dumb question, but where do you have the leads from the switch going. It's a little difficult to see in the photo.

I just noticed the same thing. I'm sure they're in there but I can't see them. Also the middle terminal on the push/pulls where you have the coil cut wires attached looks OK but the terminal directly beneath that has to be grounded to the pot. I don't see that in the pic either.

[onlypadog]

Thanks for replies - I was under the impression I could put the push pulls anywhere too... Used tone as I tend to use them less.

The switch wires run from the switch to the middle lug of the volume pots, with the caps. They're the two metal braided wires in the second picture. The third cable from the switch is the third metal braided wire which run through to the jack. Maybe I'll start at the start and check out the jack.

Only other thing I can think of is I've fried pots, but I always thought if that happened you would still get sound but no control of it...?

As for the grounding of the push pulls, they're there I did it with little bits of black wire running to the back of the pot with the main ground wires, so it's hard to see

[SJM]

Do you know that the ground lug on a Switchcraft Toggle and an import toggle are opposite of each other? This could be a problem too. What brand of switch did you get?

[onlypadog]

Ah! I have a switchcraft. I grounded it to t4 and 5 which I see is wrong? Is t1 'thick ground lug' the middle one in the side of 3? Would this cause no sound?

How should I have wired it?

[SJM]

Originally Posted by onlypadog

Ah! I have a switchcraft. I grounded it to t4 and 5 which I see is wrong? Is t1 'thick ground lug' the middle one in the side of 3? Would this cause no sound?

How should I have wired it?

The pups connections should be OK but T4 and T5 should be your hot lead going to the input jack, and then of course T1 the thick lug is your ground. I learned this lesson the same way, LOL. You should be working after this change. It's possible I guess that your pup wires could be crossed but it would not prevent it from working, but the top position would be your bridge pup and bottom your neck pup. Easy enough to change if that's the case.

[onlypadog]

Excellent, thanks! I'll make these changes after dinner today and update everyone later

[onlypadog]

Right, I've made that change now, and everything looks like its working on the multimeter...but still no sound from anything! I've checked the jack socket connections too, in case they had come loose but they're solid...I'm officially stumped

[SJM]

Take a look at this and see if anything looks out of sorts.

STEWMAC.COM : Seymour Duncan Humbucking Pickups Free information

How about the hot lead going from toggle to input jack. The ground should go on the inner terminal and hot lead on the outer one.

[SJM]

I don't supposed there is any chance this is something exterior of the guitar such as a bad cord or amp problem? This is odd. I think even if you fried the pots you would here something.

[onlypadog]

Yeah that all looks to check out, red & white to the middle lug of the push/pulls, green & bare grounded to the back of the volume pots, black to the first lug of the volume pots.

The jack - I just pulled that again and taped back the braided outer wire - it may have been touching the hot inner ring along with the hot lead to the switch. After i did that the bridge pup works - with volume and tone control and the push/pull (as much as you can ascertain without stringing up the git that is) - but only works with the switch selecting the bridge only - nothing works in the middle position, and nothing works selecting neck position only...

The plot thickens...

[onlypadog]

Originally Posted by SJM

I don't supposed there is any chance this is something exterior of the guitar such as a bad cord or amp problem? This is odd. I think even if you fried the pots you would here something.

No can't be that..using the same amp & cord I was using before I stripped it down and all was working fine

[SJM]

That doesn't leave much else except cold solder joints or damaged pots. I damaged the bridge pot on my first mod and had to replace it. They can't take much more than about 5-6 seconds with a hot iron. Funny thing was, I could put pressure from side to side on the shaft and get it to go on and off but the replacement made all the difference. I hope ya get it figured out.

[Phildog]

I agree with SJM. I, too, have found out the hard way, that pots can only tolerate but so much heat before the contact material breaks down. A 25 watt iron with some 60/40 should only take a second or two to puddle a nice flow of solder to the back of your pup. And longer, or any hotter of an iron and you run the risk of ruining a pot. I hope this is all that it is for you.

[onlypadog]

Thanks guys my logic is telling me I still a switch problem - otherwise why would the bridge pup only work in Bridge position only and not in middle position?

So I'm going back to the start and putting (another) new switch in and a new jack socket with new wire - insulated on the outside as well as having a braided metal sleeve to minimise the chance of shorting anything out to ground.

Hope this works! I've ordered some spare pots at the same time, so will change those out if needs be too. I'll post more updates when I can - will take a few days for the bits to be delivered.

[SJM]

It's possible that it's just the connections on the neck pup wire. If the neck pup isn't working then you WOULDN'T get any sound in the 1st or middle position. Do keep us posted though, I'm anxious to see you get it fixed but I'm really curious as to the problem.

[onlypadog]

Originally Posted by SJM

It's possible that it's just the connections on the neck pup wire. If the neck pup isn't working then you WOULDN'T get any sound in the 1st or middle position. Do keep us posted though, I'm anxious to see you get it fixed but I'm really curious as to the problem.

Even on the bridge pup in middle position which works on its own...?

I want to get it fixed too! I guess it's a good thing I've picked a £160 Epi for my first attempt at mods rather than a more expensive axe...best way to learn!

Do you mean it could be the connections on the pup itself? I ran the multimeter across the pup and got a good signal through to the ground at the tailpiece and to the connections on the pots, all seemed to check out...

[SJM]

When you're in the middle position, you know you need both the neck and the bridge volume turned on or nothing comes out. Unless you are wired for independent volume control that's they way it works. Take an LP that's working and put it in the middle (both pickup) position. Turn the bridge volume on but leave the neck volume off. You will get nothing. Turn you neck volume on and you have sound. That's why I'm thinking a bad neck pot or maybe the solder joint at either the switch or the pot is bad. It's just a thought. Did you check the toggle switch for continuity? It may not be bad. I don't know what else to suggest.

[onlypadog]

I think that my soldering at the volume pots was quite good - I did these while the rig was out of the guitar so I had a lot more room to manouver (see pic 2)...thats why I'm suspecting the switch out of the two - I didn't quite leave enough cable and it was tight when I was soldering to the switch - it got a bit messy.

Couple this with the fact I had then done it wrong and needed to re-do it, all this soldering, desoldering, soldering again and all the time pulling on the wires made it a bit awful, with the metal braided outside getting frayed and touching everywhere. Same goes for the Jack...that's why I'm doing it all again, new switch and insulated cable and do it outside the guitar before feeding the wires through and cutting down to size there. Hopefully that will do the trick...If not, I'll re-do the volume pots too

[onlypadog]

Ok time for an update as my extra bits came today.

Wired in a new switch, nice and neat this time...


And a new jack:


AND a new Neck volume pot as that was the pup from which I had no sound where I left it the other day...tone pot responded normally on the multimeter so left that...

Now I'm back to square one - no sound at all from either pickup in any switch position.

I officially give up: she's going in to the shop at the weekend. I've broken her, and wonder if she'll ever forgive me...

[SJM]

That looks right. Makes me wonder if you got a dead pup. It happens but SD pays so much attention to quality, you wouldn't even consider that as a possibility. I don't know, I'm just sorry we couldn't figure it out for you.

[Phildog]

Personally, I don't think you have any bad components. I wonder if you should go back and reflow ALL of your solder connections. The reason I say that is because you got sound before (even from 1 pickup), but now you don't...it's because of something YOU did. And all you did was solder. I bet you have a cold joint on your switch, or even your pickups. BTW, what kind of switch did you get? A Switchcraft or other brand. It matters as the grounds are a little different on the Switchcraft.

[onlypadog]

Hey all

Guess what - I have an answer!

And yes, it was something suitably ridiculous. I had left the earth braid on the jack plug slightly too long in my caution and as I fed the jack plug back into the body and secured it, the earth was curling around. When I plugged the cord in, it connected with this earth braid and sent my amp straight to earth, bypassing everything.

Now she works, I had her set up at the same time and she sounds AWESOME!

On another note - this isn't an NGD but at the same time I picked up my Silverburst Custom which was in the shop having the full works done - Gibson Burstbucker Pros, CTS pots with 0.022 bumblebees in 50's style, switchcraft hardware and Gibson vintage tuners with a full set up afterwards. Here's some pics cos I didn't put her on this part of the forum when I first joined. The pics are taken before I had her modded....except the last one, which shows the new guts I've also taken the PG off now. Does it warrant a NGD thread? I never got boobs for this one....

[SJM]

Glad to here your problem is solved and there isn't any reason you can't start a NGD thread for your LPC Silverburst. Go for it, we all enjoy the boobs!