Complete EPI custom setup

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by CuttingJesse

Just wondering, Im assuming you glued down the nut. If so did you use an epoxy or just a carpenters glue??

I used a couple of drops of superglue, However, wood glue, epoxy, hide glue all work.

The key is to not use too much.

[CuttingJesse]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

I used a couple of drops of superglue, However, wood glue, epoxy, hide glue all work.

The key is to not use too much.

Aww thank you. Ive really been getting into modding and setting up my own guitars lately this thread is very helpful

[matthornet]

Originally Posted by matthornet

Hi Roman, The gibson vintage setup tips teaches to steel wool the entire fretboard even the rosewood and also some other tips to smoothen the fretboard nad fill the pores. Is it safe to do so? why did you not do that? thanks.. I'm pretty confused with all the different opinions

wat do you think roman?

[Roman Rist]

Oh, I steel wooled it. I end up steel wooling all boards except finished maple.
maybe I didn't take a pic of that.

the only thing with steel wool is that you need to keep the pickups taped off.

[calibud]

Did my fret board today. Just a simple scraping with the razor and a nice couple coats of lemon oil. I'll post some pics when I get back from church. It only takes about an hour and a half and anyone with an Epiphone should do this. The difference is seriously nothing short of night and day.

Thanks Roman!

[calibud]

half way done...

fully finished...

first oil...

looking good!!!

finished product!

[matthornet]

I didnt scrape the fretboard & after lemon oiling it, doesnt look as brilliant as i wanted it to be

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by matthornet

I didnt scrape the fretboard & after lemon oiling it, doesnt look as brilliant as i wanted it to be

you only did half the job

look what calibud did

[auditi]

i'm doing this with a spare neck for an ibanez rg i'm about to sell, and need to oil it, but the steel wool job came out good, got all the gunk off the fretboard nicely... thanks for the thread roman, good stuff.....

[lifele55]

I'll put my works up in another thread soon.. the steel wool part is brilliant, though I still have some white unidentified stuff in some of the pores it really is a good step to not miss.

But like Roman says, tape up your pups!

[jeph]

awesome, very informative thread.

cant wait for the next edition

all the best ROMAN!

[calibud]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

you only did half the job

look what calibud did

Couldn't have without this thread!

[R.L.]

Wow, thank you! This does inspire me to try this my self, very well written and very interesting.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by R.L.

Wow, thank you! This does inspire me to try this my self, very well written and very interesting.

My pleasure

[Ole'Lefty]

Roman, Greg and David and a few others who have a "lower profile" are very special people. Those who strive to share more than they receive have their own rewards.

For those who have begged for a public posting of expected price- (I have only been in California for two days in my 62 years). In Iowa, a setup like that would be a minimum of $150. More for neck rub-up. Actually even more to fully round the fret ends and roll(ease is what I call it)the binding. In Chicago, likely a $200 start. But, the truth is, you can take a $300 guitar and for $200 make it play like more than $500. It won't be worth $500 to sell it unless you find someone who cares about what the guitar can do, not the name on it. Then, you will have really enjoyed that guitar and broke even on it. How can a body complain? We would do well to find a way to thank Roman for this-write a song, actually use what he taught and show it here. Jumping into setup takes courage; if it is thoughtful courage, all will be fine. A master flows in his work; break down your efforts into segments and think that whole segment through and then ,DON'T let your mind shut off as you DO IT! Just me.

[matthornet]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

you only did half the job

look what calibud did

hey roman, any pointers on a safe and right way of scraping the fingerboard with a razor? really dont wanna screw it up.. & the steel wooling actually leaves many scratches on the inlays, not so pretty anymore but its ok i guess thanks for all your help roman

[calibud]

Originally Posted by matthornet

hey roman, any pointers on a safe and right way of scraping the fingerboard with a razor? really dont wanna screw it up.. & the steel wooling actually leaves many scratches on the inlays, not so pretty anymore but its ok i guess thanks for all your help roman

I just wiped it down with a cloth, and then started scraping (gently, but with enough force to do something) away. Took as little off at a time as I could. Worked my way down the board. Oil it up a couple times and let it soak.

[Stevehose]

Hi Roman et al this is a great thread, when you file the string slots in the nut, what is the height of the strings from the first fret to the bottom of the strings that you like to start with? I read somewhere that Gibson spec is 1/64 on the high E and 2/64 on the low E. Do you agree with that or do you have a different number - I like my action low so is it advisable to go lower than that? Thanks much.

[marwan38]

Roman, you never replied to my email or private message ( i can't remember ) I sent you a couple of months ago, so i guess i'll ask here.

Can you please explain more detailed on how to level the frets, i'd like to do that myself, and how do you use the razor on the fret board after you use the superglue, and do you use the superglue on all the un-leveled frets or what? About the razor thing, like how do you scrap the thing off the fretboard off, You put the razor on then go up and down? or you scrap it like you're cutting a vegetable or something?

[greasykid]

Hi Roman, I'm just finishing up my Orville LP Custom but the nut is too high on the 3 high strings, chords are out of whack on the 1st three frets. Can you give ballpark string heights off the nut? I dont want to file away too much. Thanks!

[Ayush Presley]

it honestly looks much much better than it was before..those are nice tips..

[lifele55]

Originally Posted by greasykid

Hi Roman, I'm just finishing up my Orville LP Custom but the nut is too high on the 3 high strings, chords are out of whack on the 1st three frets. Can you give ballpark string heights off the nut? I dont want to file away too much. Thanks!

You could use a file to file down the slots if its just for the higher strings. I did some nut filing a few weeks ago and didn't follow by any measurements. Just kept filing and checking against the old nut.

Also don't glue the nuts in first. After every file, tune up and check again. If its too high then just give the strings some slack and take out the nut and file abit more till you feel its right..

[The Thruth]

hey Roman, where to find this kind of file with wooden handle:


what is the granulation on that file (2,3,4,5)?

Thanx

[Iceman0124]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

Now I do a complete scraping of the fingerboard. There are a couple of reasons for this.

1) I get all the super glue off.

2) I smooth out the inlays and make sure all are level to the rosewood

3) It always appears on import guitars that there is some type of coating on the fingerboard. When they are brand new, they do not look and feel like wood, but wood with a plastic coating.

I don't know exactly what it is but I don't like it. So, I scrape it off and get to real wood!

Also, we need a good surface for the oil to seep into.

4) This is also the point where we start to "Roll" the binding.

Heres a before and after shot, The before really wasnt meant o show off the board so its not a great pic but does get the point across, and the difference in feel is much greater than appearance.

Before



After




Thanks again!!


I do this with the razor blade. As I am scraping I take the blade at an angle on the edge of the binding and take off the square edge.



WoW!!! I just did the whole scraping and oiling on my Gretsch eleactomatic....man, I always wonderd why the oil never really soaked in on my cheaper axes with rosewood boards, just kinda pooled up on the top waiting to be wiped away, my gretsch is now a sponge! Thanks again roman!

[TWANG]

Here's a couple things you can do yourself for frework.
lower your strings, plug in your guitar, set the amp treble high.
adjust the truss rod so that the neck is as straight as it can possibly be.

play each fret on each string.
you should have the action set for each string just a tick lower than you would actually want it.
take a sharpy and every time you hear some noise.. mark the fret above the one you're playing with a little black line.

When you're done, you'll see every high fret.
any two lines that are next to each other.. connect.
If there's a string between them, don't connect them.

get a piece of wood that's really planned well.. flat flat flat. and smooth.
about an inch or inch and a half wide.
take some 800 grit wet or dry and tape it so that you have one edge covered with the
sandpaper.

remember to mask off your pickups so no small metal particles get on the magnets.

lightly run the paper over the frets until the marks disappear.
You should see them go.. just take your time, use light.. your eyes..
don't press hard. you don't want to muck up the radius of the board..

you will see some of the ink on the sides of the frets.. you just want it off the top.

The idea is to create a thin metal strip on top of the frets.. it will be less on the unmarked frets.. much less. that's good.
you don't want to do it all at once.

you repeat the trebly fret testing process.. use old strings at first..no sense wrecking a new set.

you should remark the frets then.. you'll see that you've gotten rid of several of the high noisy frets.
take your time. be cautious. be patient. be slow. make the effort.
anything less will be stupid.

You can do this up to three times before you're happy. But the time you've done it three times, you'll have developed a real sense of the process. a feel for it.

this is only good for a bit of noise.

It's much better if you also get a crowning file.. allparts.com sells them and they'll know what frets you have most likely.

that's a different process.
the point here is, you don't have to buy a radiused block if you take your time and be cautious.
Heavy handedness is dumb anyway.. many many techs that do this just slam in there and take off half your frets. they don't give a crap that it's taking years off them.

If you feel you're a bit clumsy, don't try it on a good guitar.
But it works, and it does a good job.

you can also buy a radiused sanding block at stew mac.. find out what your board radius is and do the above with it.. it's the same process.

you don't have to go over the areas where there are no marks at all, but if you do this job you should touch almost all the frets because you need to hit the high spots a few at a time.. so you will go beyond them..
YOU have to decide while you're doing it whether or not the amount you're taking off
means you need to touch them a bit more or less.
by doing it in steps.. you can not only feel this, you test it by restringing and marking them a second or third time.

Be aware the board is radiused. feel it.. as you work. think about it.. worry about it. and proceed.
but if you ignore the details, if you use muscle or speed, they'll bite you in the butt.

and you'll deserve it!

TWANG

[The_Sentry]

Originally Posted by TWANG

Here's a couple things you can do yourself for frework.
lower your strings, plug in your guitar, set the amp treble high.
adjust the truss rod so that the neck is as straight as it can possibly be.

play each fret on each string.
you should have the action set for each string just a tick lower than you would actually want it.
take a sharpy and every time you hear some noise.. mark the fret above the one you're playing with a little black line.

When you're done, you'll see every high fret.
any two lines that are next to each other.. connect.
If there's a string between them, don't connect them.

get a piece of wood that's really planned well.. flat flat flat. and smooth.
about an inch or inch and a half wide.
take some 800 grit wet or dry and tape it so that you have one edge covered with the
sandpaper.

remember to mask off your pickups so no small metal particles get on the magnets.

lightly run the paper over the frets until the marks disappear.
You should see them go.. just take your time, use light.. your eyes..
don't press hard. you don't want to muck up the radius of the board..

you will see some of the ink on the sides of the frets.. you just want it off the top.

The idea is to create a thin metal strip on top of the frets.. it will be less on the unmarked frets.. much less. that's good.
you don't want to do it all at once.

you repeat the trebly fret testing process.. use old strings at first..no sense wrecking a new set.

you should remark the frets then.. you'll see that you've gotten rid of several of the high noisy frets.
take your time. be cautious. be patient. be slow. make the effort.
anything less will be stupid.

You can do this up to three times before you're happy. But the time you've done it three times, you'll have developed a real sense of the process. a feel for it.

this is only good for a bit of noise.

It's much better if you also get a crowning file.. allparts.com sells them and they'll know what frets you have most likely.

that's a different process.
the point here is, you don't have to buy a radiused block if you take your time and be cautious.
Heavy handedness is dumb anyway.. many many techs that do this just slam in there and take off half your frets. they don't give a crap that it's taking years off them.

If you feel you're a bit clumsy, don't try it on a good guitar.
But it works, and it does a good job.

you can also buy a radiused sanding block at stew mac.. find out what your board radius is and do the above with it.. it's the same process.

you don't have to go over the areas where there are no marks at all, but if you do this job you should touch almost all the frets because you need to hit the high spots a few at a time.. so you will go beyond them..
YOU have to decide while you're doing it whether or not the amount you're taking off
means you need to touch them a bit more or less.
by doing it in steps.. you can not only feel this, you test it by restringing and marking them a second or third time.

Be aware the board is radiused. feel it.. as you work. think about it.. worry about it. and proceed.
but if you ignore the details, if you use muscle or speed, they'll bite you in the butt.

and you'll deserve it!

TWANG

TWANG!!

It's great to see you here!

[taypeng]

wow i just caught this thread and im going to try the english oil treatment on my orville, maybe roll the binding too

thanks for posting roman!

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by The Thruth

hey Roman, where to find this kind of file with wooden handle:


what is the granulation on that file (2,3,4,5)?

Thanx

I make a lot of my own tools, this one is a Simmons fine mill, not sure of the gradation.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by greasykid

Hi Roman, I'm just finishing up my Orville LP Custom but the nut is too high on the 3 high strings, chords are out of whack on the 1st three frets. Can you give ballpark string heights off the nut? I dont want to file away too much. Thanks!

A general rule of thumb is this;

Imagine fretting your first fret, now look at or measure the distance the string sits from the second fret...............this is the distance your string height should be from the first fret when the nut is cut to height.

[Sinster]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

The last thing. Intonation.

I play the open string........check it on the tuner.

Hit the 12th harmonic.......check it on the tuner

Hit the 12th fret.........check it on the tuner

If sharp, the saddle goes back.
If flat , the saddle goes forward.



On a side note; Epi bridges are not that great. The good news is that the import version of the Gotoh/tonepros is a DIRECT fit.

It is a much better bridge. It is pre notched and you wouldn't even have to install new studs and inserts. Just put it on and set the intonation and action.

The problem I run into sometimes when I fret the 12th is depending on the pressure I put on the string I don't get a good reading any suggestions.