The Fake Epiphone Thread!

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Kølabrennern

Even if things on your Epiphone are off or not like every other one you see, that doesn't necessarily have to mean it's a fake. Yet again I will have to use my '95 Korean LP Standard as an example here. It has lopsided inlays with glue all over, neck volume knob is above the tailpiece, the tuner holes are vintage sized with "no name" machine heads, the TRC says Gibson, the headstock logo has no tilt whatsoever, the body is made up of at least 3 pieces, there's an obviously visible seam between the two pieces of the flametop, the toggle switch has such a thin post that not even a modern Epiphone plastic tip will fit, there is no "Epiphone" stamped on the back of the pickups, the bridge doesn't have those wheels on the posts, and it has a bolted neck, even if it's a Standard.

So guys and gals, even if one or more parts on your Epi aren't exactly like what someone else describes on their guitar, don't lose your sleep over it.

Otherwise I like the idea of this thread, even if I have a fake Chinese Gibson. Don't want people who think they're ending up with the real deal to be tricked.

Well, you definitely set me straight on the 90's Korean issues, and I have taken this into account here. And I wpould like to add that I appreciate it. So far as the latest guitars go, if the guitar is an Epiphone Zakk Wilde, they should be from the same line, hence, no difference during production, so I ask, why the differences when its a cutting machine with precise exact measurements doing all the work? Thats why I come to the conclusion that there should be NO differences whatsoever. If it came from Epiphone, was made in the last couple years or so, whether its a Zakk Wilde, a Slash, or whatever, the body characteristics should be all the same, no differences. I am pretty sure that the Q.A. guys at Gibson would feel the same way. Example- They wouldnt even let a pock mark the size of a screwhead on the upper edge of my guitar get by without stamping it a 2nd, whats the chance they are going to let control knobs and backplates and blemished hardware get by? Pretty slim I'd venture to guess.

The idea of having this sticky is so folks who are completely pumped up to learn guitar and are hungrier than hell for it, but yet are naive to whats going on, dont get ripped off of their hard earned money, when it comes so damn hard in the first place. The other thing, is I live in Michigan, am a Fire protection systems tech, and when I go into entire neighborhoods of factories that have closed up shop, shut their doors and laid off hundreds, nay, thousands of workers so some asshole can shave off production costs by shipping bulk product overseas to friggin China, only to be shipped back at half the total cost of making it here, and then the fat cat sitting on the pile gets rich, while all his ex-workers are in the unemployment line begging for cash to feed their families, and now some $#@@^&&*%$# jerkwad is adding to the issue, selling cheap knock-offs so even more people can lose their jobs due to lost sales? No way I am going to let that happen, not when I have the means to stop them.

(Steps off the soapbox)

If I sound a little pissed, maybe more people should be. I like my job, and I like feeding my family even more. How bout you folks?

NUff said.

[jon_c]

Originally Posted by Sinmastah

Oh man this is getting out of control. Something really needs to be done to fix this counterfeighting problem in general... We will just have to see what happens from now on. I will try to do the best I can...

Its one of the reasons I avoid Ebay tbh. I've only ever bid on 1 guitar on Ebay and it was only because it was MIJ Epi LP Standard in Nitro finish, that the owner said I could inspect before paying. Got outbid with 5 seconds to go on that

[oyvjak]

I shall avoid guitars on eBay in the future.
I think it's safe to assume mine is a fake, so I hope my pictures can help others avoid fakes. GNR4EVR made a good point about such a difference in something so basic as control knob placement. The diamond on the head seems to be another telltale sign. Also, I noticed the silhouette on the back only has 4 frets as far as I could see. I read somewhere it was supposed to be 5.
It is annoying when things like this happens, but the best thing to do is to learn from it, and move on. It's not a massive amount of money we're talking about, for my sake, but that doesn't make the counterfeiting problem any less severe. In the end, you may pay a bit more for an inferior product compared to the original, but at least you can play it, right? If nothing else, it gave me an excuse to get a new amp.

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by oyvjak

I shall avoid guitars on eBay in the future.
I think it's safe to assume mine is a fake, so I hope my pictures can help others avoid fakes. GNR4EVR made a good point about such a difference in something so basic as control knob placement. The diamond on the head seems to be another telltale sign. Also, I noticed the silhouette on the back only has 4 frets as far as I could see. I read somewhere it was supposed to be 5.
It is annoying when things like this happens, but the best thing to do is to learn from it, and move on. It's not a massive amount of money we're talking about, for my sake, but that doesn't make the counterfeiting problem any less severe. In the end, you may pay a bit more for an inferior product compared to the original, but at least you can play it, right? If nothing else, it gave me an excuse to get a new amp.

I wouldnt say to avoid it alltogether, just check on everything to make sure. MIne came from Ebay, and its genuine (since a counterfeiter doesnt have the nads to stamp on a second on back of the head, LOL) On that note, I was guaranteed a genuine guitar.

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by GNR4EVR

Well, you definitely set me straight on the 90's Korean issues, and I have taken this into account here. And I wpould like to add that I appreciate it. So far as the latest guitars go, if the guitar is an Epiphone Zakk Wilde, they should be from the same line, hence, no difference during production, so I ask, why the differences when its a cutting machine with precise exact measurements doing all the work? Thats why I come to the conclusion that there should be NO differences whatsoever. If it came from Epiphone, was made in the last couple years or so, whether its a Zakk Wilde, a Slash, or whatever, the body characteristics should be all the same, no differences. I am pretty sure that the Q.A. guys at Gibson would feel the same way. Example- They wouldnt even let a pock mark the size of a screwhead on the upper edge of my guitar get by without stamping it a 2nd, whats the chance they are going to let control knobs and backplates and blemished hardware get by? Pretty slim I'd venture to guess.

The idea of having this sticky is so folks who are completely pumped up to learn guitar and are hungrier than hell for it, but yet are naive to whats going on, dont get ripped off of their hard earned money, when it comes so damn hard in the first place. The other thing, is I live in Michigan, am a Fire protection systems tech, and when I go into entire neighborhoods of factories that have closed up shop, shut their doors and laid off hundreds, nay, thousands of workers so some asshole can shave off production costs by shipping bulk product overseas to friggin China, only to be shipped back at half the total cost of making it here, and then the fat cat sitting on the pile gets rich, while all his ex-workers are in the unemployment line begging for cash to feed their families, and now some $#@@^&&*%$# jerkwad is adding to the issue, selling cheap knock-offs so even more people can lose their jobs due to lost sales? No way I am going to let that happen, not when I have the means to stop them.

(Steps off the soapbox)

If I sound a little pissed, maybe more people should be. I like my job, and I like feeding my family even more. How bout you folks?

NUff said.

Hey man, thats a great point. I think you deserve to feel that way, I think more things should be made in America. I mean come on, support your country right?

I am thinking right now that this thread is doing pretty good at pointing out what to look out for. If people are still skeptical of their Paul post it in a new thread and we will look at it. Be prepared for a badanswer though.

Also two things I need. A picture of a fake back of a body, and what to look out for when buying on eBay, such as comments made by the seller like "comes straight from the factory in China" etc!

Thanks for the help guys, this is a community effort.

[Kølabrennern]

Originally Posted by GNR4EVR

Well, you definitely set me straight on the 90's Korean issues, and I have taken this into account here. And I wpould like to add that I appreciate it. So far as the latest guitars go, [...]

Well of course, I didn't mean to criticize anything with my post here now, I just wanted to add a little piece of my information. Seeing as a lot of Epiphones go over Ebay, I guess some of them used and from different eras, factories and countries, there will be certain variables. I put mine out there, so if anyone has the same model as me, they can read it and feel slightly safer about their guitar. The rest of what you're saying does of course make completely sense, the new Epiphones produced all after the same spec sheets should in theory be the same.

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by GNR4EVR

I wouldnt say to avoid it alltogether, just check on everything to make sure. MIne came from Ebay, and its genuine (since a counterfeiter doesnt have the nads to stamp on a second on back of the head, LOL) On that note, I was guaranteed a genuine guitar.

Yup same, I bought 2 out of three guitars on eBay, and the third one I bought had a broken headstock!

[Sinmastah]

GNR4EVR I know you pointed out that people may learn from this thread, like the people in China, and that a loose mouth will sink a ship, or something similar. I think there are two main differences from Epiphone and the counterfeights. Epiphone uses higher quality parts, and they care. The counterfeighters just want to pump out as many guitars as they can, and that is why they are sloppy and don't look as good. They don't care, as long as people buy them. I think that is the one main thing, other than part quality, that we can rely on to determine what is fake and what isn't.

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Kølabrennern

Well of course, I didn't mean to criticize anything with my post here now, I just wanted to add a little piece of my information. Seeing as a lot of Epiphones go over Ebay, I guess some of them used and from different eras, factories and countries, there will be certain variables. I put mine out there, so if anyone has the same model as me, they can read it and feel slightly safer about their guitar. The rest of what you're saying does of course make completely sense, the new Epiphones produced all after the same spec sheets should in theory be the same.

And honestly, no sarcasm at all, I appreciated that a lot. And I do now know that Epis from various eras have their own distinction as far as design goes, so I am actually giving you much credit for what youve added to the effort here. Can you throw up some pics of your 90's era guitars so we all know what youre talking about? (I of course already know, but for everyone else) Then when we are looking at 90ish guitars, we can dismiss some things. Thanks!

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by GNR4EVR

And honestly, no sarcasm at all, I appreciated that a lot. And I do now know that Epis from various eras have their own distinction as far as design goes, so I am actually giving you much credit for what youve added to the effort here. Can you throw up some pics of your 90's era guitars so we all know what youre talking about? (I of course already know, but for everyone else) Then when we are looking at 90ish guitars, we can dismiss some things. Thanks!

Yeah I am interested in seeing these pics, they sound interesting!

[jon_c]

Originally Posted by Nils

Some pictures of my Epiphone LP Standard Plus top (EE s/n)
Scales are in inches (larger scale), the first pic probably cm (smaller scale)

For the sake of curiousity, I compared my guitar to your pics. Everything seems the same, the rhythm controls line up with the pickguard screw, etc. Purchased from Dawsons.

But in your second pic with the straight edge in the middle of the stop bar. I just did that on mine and the controls are about 3/8" towards the neck compared to yours.

So assuming, ours are both legit there must be discrepancies in the manufacturing process.

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by jon_c

For the sake of curiousity, I compared my guitar to your pics. Everything seems the same, the rhythm controls line up with the pickguard screw, etc.

But in your second pic with the straight edge in the middle of the stop bar. I just did that on mine and the controls are about 3/8" towards the neck than yours.

So assuming, ours are both legit there must be discrepancies in the manufacturing process.

Oh yeah of course, I mean we are dealing with wood here etc. They don't just have a plastic mold and use that. The wood should all be the same shape, and the knobs and all that should be very similar and close together. The fakes are just horribly done. If your knobs and parallel and almost perfecty inline with the neck you should be good to go.

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Sinmastah

GNR4EVR I know you pointed out that people may learn from this thread, like the people in China, and that a loose mouth will sink a ship, or something similar. I think there are two main differences from Epiphone and the counterfeights. Epiphone uses higher quality parts, and they care. The counterfeighters just want to pump out as many guitars as they can, and that is why they are sloppy and don't look as good. They don't care, as long as people buy them. I think that is the one main thing, other than part quality, that we can rely on to determine what is fake and what isn't.

Yep. Absolutely. I am just saying that the game may change, so we gotta stay on top of it and add anything new here so everyone will know what to watch for. I was also saying that the more specific we get, the more anyone viewing will learn and make changes. If not for the stupid mistakes, we'd never spot them in the first place. Make too much of a point and they are the ones that fix the issues and get their junk by. Dunno, guess maybe I worry more than I should..LOL (Been told that before too)

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by GNR4EVR

Yep. Absolutely. I am just saying that the game may change, so we gotta stay on top of it and add anything new here so everyone will know what to watch for. I was also saying that the more specific we get, the more anyone viewing will learn and make changes. If not for the stupid mistakes, we'd never spot them in the first place. Make too much of a point and they are the ones that fix the issues and get their junk by. Dunno, guess maybe I worry more than I should..LOL (Been told that before too)

Yeah man, we gotta do this and like save the world man! This is what we were born for. Feel free to PM me any info you want to share. I will do likewise. I just feel we can as specific as we can, but if you rush the process of building guitars, they will get f'ed up eventually.

[Kølabrennern]

Originally Posted by Sinmastah

Yeah I am interested in seeing these pics, they sound interesting!

I'll try to get some up here tomorrow then. In the meanwhile, here's a full shot from an angle, that doesn't really show much of what I listed.

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by Kølabrennern

I'll try to get some up here tomorrow then. In the meanwhile, here's a full shot from an angle, that doesn't really show much of what I listed.

So far I can see the lack of a tilt with the logo.

[GNR4EVR]

Originally Posted by Sinmastah

So far I can see the lack of a tilt with the logo.

I see what you mean about the volume knobs too. Hmm, interesting. And the screw on the pickguard is like the fake customs. Maybe theres some credence to what Ive heard that pissed off koreans that used to work in those factories that moved to China are still making them and selling them on the open market...
Wow

[jon_c]

Some pics of mine here

Some up to date pics

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by jon_c

Some pics of mine here

Some up to date pics

What a great top on that, lucky man!!!

Oh, by the way, Lets all thank flick for the sticky on this.

Thank you!!!

[lifele55]

Yeah jon.. that is one of the nicer tops I've seen on the Epi

[jon_c]

Cheers

[yr990099]

how do you make the pictures come up big ? i uploaded some and they are small and you have to click them to enlarge..thanks

[lifele55]

Create an account at Photobucket. Upload your pictures there and use the links they provide and paste them here...

[-Ninja-]

Where do the fakes come from? Is someone making them somewhere, or is it like a factory or something?

Just curious.

[Sinmastah]

Originally Posted by -Ninja-

Where do the fakes come from? Is someone making them somewhere, or is it like a factory or something?

Just curious.

Some factory in China.

[Nils]

Originally Posted by jon_c

For the sake of curiousity, I compared my guitar to your pics. Everything seems the same, the rhythm controls line up with the pickguard screw, etc. Purchased from Dawsons.

But in your second pic with the straight edge in the middle of the stop bar. I just did that on mine and the controls are about 3/8" towards the neck compared to yours.

So assuming, ours are both legit there must be discrepancies in the manufacturing process.

Different factory/model/date of manufacturing?

[lifele55]

I'm sure 3/8" won't make it an illegitimate guitar for sure...

[Big_dawg]

I think theres a bit of hysteria going on here and people are worrying unnecessarily about the legitimacy of their guitars. The measuring and straight lines are a good starting point but just go into any shop with a decent selection of epis and look at them in some shops youll be lucky to find two that are the same. Some have knobs in line with the bridge, some have offset tuners, and thats even before the we start looking at B-stock and second guitars.

For those in doubt look at the rear of your bridge and stop bar newer models will have epiphone cast into them and even on the back of the pick ups. Also take the strings off newer models have a stop bar that doesnt fall off...

That Zakk Wilde I cant see anything wrong with it from the pictures TRC touching the diamond can be legit, knobs too high can be legit (or previous owner putting in long shaft pots) If youre really worried check the metal parts and take it to an epi dealer.

[DolmenRage]

Nice thread! This will really help guys like me that dont really know how to spot all these horrible copies.

[jkinnison90]

DO NOT buy any guitars from this web site. I believe the Epiphones are all fakes and just look at the Custom Shop section,

http://www.guitar-world.cn/