Are some Gibsons actually...cheaper than Epi's?

[The_Sentry]

Random thought....

Before I sold off my Epiphones.....(and I had 4 of 'em)....I'll admit that in many instances I had a midranged priced guitar where I dumped a lot of hardware into it in an effort to make it sound and play better.

I know in at least 2 of those instances with those guitars...by the time all of the modding was said and done...I could have bought a new Gibson and have been done with it.

Now granted...a lot of people mod those as well....but it seems like there's more overall value..and the temptation to mod is not as strong because you're dealing with quality hardware, tonewoods, and components.

So with that being said...are Epi's...TRULY cheaper than Gibsons? Especially if you end up buying the Epiphone, modding the hell out of it, selling it off...and settling on a Gibson anyway?

(I"m mindful of the fact that yes, some Gibsons are ridiculously expensive but the Studio and the SG come to mind as comparisons for new models that are bought stock vs. Epi's that are bought stock w a bunch of aftermarket parts....)

[lp_junkie]

You know I have done the same thing, bought a Epi cherryburst custom, dumped a ton of money on it in hardware and electronics, still have it, but I paid less for my 2008 Gibson Standard than what I have tied up in that Epi (although it is a screamer and one of my favorite guitars still).

SO yes Gibsons can be cheaper than Epi

[djwilbanks]

That's life though. Like the guy who dumps 20k for a Honda Civic and then 25k in upgrades to make it as fast a Corvette when 30k would have gotten him a used Corvette.

[onioner]

Yeah, I think that's fair. You can buy an Epi and upgrade it to a pretty good guitar for the price of a studio. That said, a studio is just a studio. If you want a three pup LP, or whatnot, it's a heck of a lot cheaper to get the Epi and fix it up then it would be to buy a comparable guitar.

So, if the goal is just to have a well playing guitar, I think the Gibson Studio does win out, especially these days, when they can be had for $600 or so. Heck, plenty of Epis sell new for more than that. It just depends on what you want. As far as I'm concerned, there's considerable value in putting together an instrument like you want it to be, as opposed to how low end Gibsons are put together.

For the record, I have two Epis (Ultra II and a Black Beauty) and one Gibson Studio. They each ended up costing me (or will cost me) about the same, but I got good deals on all of them. The Gibson is the best player, but I can't really say which is my favorite, nor even which I consider the best value.

Anyways, yah, the comparison breaks down once you start gettin' fancy...

[onioner]

Originally Posted by djwilbanks

That's life though. Like the guy who dumps 20k for a Honda Civic and then 25k in upgrades to make it as fast a Corvette when 30k would have gotten him a used Corvette.

Exactly. That Civic ends up being way cooler than a Corvette.

Alright, I just think tricked out Civics are cool, and I'm not a fan of Corvettes, but, well, that's kinda the point, or something...

[Eggy]

Well my experience has been a lot different.
2nd hand Epi = £200
New pickups = £65
Rewire, pots and caps £30
Total = £295

2nd hand Gibson = £900 to £2k

I'm not sure how buying a Gibson would save me any money at all?

[QuicksilverSS]

Originally Posted by onioner

Exactly. That Civic ends up being way cooler than a Corvette.

Alright, I just think tricked out Civics are cool, and I'm not a fan of Corvettes, but, well, that's kinda the point, or something...

I can't believe i just read this....

[paruwi]

Originally Posted by djwilbanks

That's life though. Like the guy who dumps 20k for a Honda Civic and then 25k in upgrades to make it as fast a Corvette when 30k would have gotten him a used Corvette.

What if he never wanted a Corvette.......

[ext1jdh]

Originally Posted by QuicksilverSS

I can't believe i just read this....

Well, for one thing, you can expect 300,00+ miles out of the Civic even with the mods. American ≠ Better.

[ext1jdh]

Originally Posted by onioner

That said, a studio is just a studio.

So? Isn't it just as good but without the shiny?

[GitFiddle]

You also need to consider the intrinsic value invested aside from money spent.

Look at all the experience and knowledge you gain when buying a less expensive Epi and making all your experimental mods and upgrades. It gives you more freedom to try different things and learn a boatload of information about things you want to try.

It may also help you understand and appreciate the higher end Gibson more than you normally would. When you pay top dollar for a nice Gibson LP, you may be less inclined to experiment with it.

Epi's the breadboard and the Gibson's the PCB.

[ext1jdh]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

You also need to consider the intrinsic value invested aside from money spent.

The only intrinsic value in a Gibson is what you're willing to pay for it. Personally I think it's stupid to buy a guitar as an investment. You think Page or Clapton bought their guitars as an investment? Hell no, they bought them in order to play the hell out of them. They modded freely without consideration of the "intrinsic value" of the guitar.

[Phildog]

That's interesting. I would suppose that if you were to buy a used Epi and mod it, than it would be cheaper than a Gibby.

The upgrades on my Epi LP consist of:

Grover locking tuners
TusQ nut
GFS Vintage Alnico II's
Gotoh Nashville bridge
Jonesified wiring upgrade (soon to be)

All of that (which is by no means considered top-of-the-line), still brings the total to less than the cost of a Gibby Studio. But much, much cheaper than a Gibson LP Standard. I probably wouldn't go out and buy a brand new Epi LP because I'd gut it anyway. To me, that would be less cost effective than spending less money on a used...only to gut it and mod it anyway.

[56Bluesboy]

It all depends on how one shops the guitar as well as the parts they mod with. In general using new parts and a new Epi LP Standard Plus Top as the starting point, one could easily end up putting in enough goodies to have an easy $750-$850 into said guitar by the time they are done. Using a used guitar as the starting point, and shopping ones' parts in a clever fashion can bring things in for less cash. All in all it doesn't make those Epi Les Paul tribute series guitars look so high in price now does it? However when your basic Gibson Les Paul Standards at m.a.p.s pricing float in the $2200-$2400 range, those modded Epi Pauls when done and tweaked right, can offer a lot of bang for the buck that's hard to beat.

[Diocletian]

I don't see how. The only thing I upgrade on an Epiphone is the pickups, and you can sell the Epiphone ones. So - two used Duncans off Ebay= £80? Minus £15 or so for the Epi ones. = total upgrade cost of £65 on top of the price of a used Epi, £170?

Total = £235.

Find me a used Gibson for that!

The good thing with upgrading Gibsons is you can sell the pickups for over a hundred quid, and buy Duncans for less, so you get some money back with that.

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by ext1jdh

The only intrinsic value in a Gibson is what you're willing to pay for it. Personally I think it's stupid to buy a guitar as an investment. You think Page or Clapton bought their guitars as an investment? Hell no, they bought them in order to play the hell out of them. They modded freely without consideration of the "intrinsic value" of the guitar.

Yes, I agree. I only buy guitars to play them. I don't think I have ever bought a guitar when the ROI ever crossed my mind.

I mainly meant buying a low cost Epi and spending even more on upgrades holds much more value than just the money you have invested in it, even if it ends up being more than a low cost Gibson. The knowledge and experience you gain from research and making mods is invaluable.

I got an R7 GT last spring and I just finished upgrading it to a Jonesy 50's wiring harness (for under $100). I doubt I will ever make any more mods to that guitar. It is too sweet just the way it is.

But now I have the urge to take my 89 MIK, gut it and replace all the controls and pickups with quality electronics. It plays and feels great but the hardware is very troublesome. Even though this will probably end up costing close to the price of a new studio overall, the enjoyment and satisfaction of tailoring this guitar to my personal taste will have far more intrinsic value (to me) than what I paid in dollars.

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by Diocletian

I don't see how. The only thing I upgrade on an Epiphone is the pickups, and you can sell the Epiphone ones. So - two used Duncans off Ebay= £80? Minus £15 or so for the Epi ones. = total upgrade cost of £65 on top of the price of a used Epi, £170?

Total = £235.

Find me a used Gibson for that!

The good thing with upgrading Gibsons is you can sell the pickups for over a hundred quid, and buy Duncans for less, so you get some money back with that.

I don't believe I could even think of upgrading the pickups on an Epi until I have totally replaced pots, caps and toggle switch. By then, the original pickups may sound like new ones.

[Jody]

Maybe I've played some Gibson duds then..

[Raffie..]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

I don't believe I could even think of upgrading the pickups on an Epi until I have totally replaced pots, caps and toggle switch. By then, the original pickups may sound like new ones.

what type of pots, caps and toggle switch that will be a nice replacement to epi LP?

[TeleDog]

When you factor in the upgrades and all the stuff people end up buying in the end to make it "better than a Gibson" then yeah, some of those Epis are more expensive.

[Fuelish]

Random answer ....yes...and no..... and, who really cares ??? Same ol' played out bs....

[lp_junkie]

I do the same mods on my Gibsons as my Epis-

tuners, plastics, hardware, electronics so it just depends on what I want to build which platform I use.

I'm not any more afraid to dig into a $5000 Gibson than a $500 Epi, but I've been modding Gibsons since before Epi made Les Pauls.

[skelingtony]

Got my used Korean Epiphone Standard Plus Top for £100 (needed fret levelling).

-Fret levelled and set up myself (free).
-Stuck in £30 used Iron Gear pickups, and rewired with £2 caps.
-£18 for Wilkinson Deluxe Klusons (great tuners for a sily low price).

Now a giggable guitar, and in a small noisy venue, sounds as good as a Gibson imo. Not as good quality (in 'feel' especially), I know, but £150 would only buy me a Gibson case!

[JasonLovesRock]

Originally Posted by ext1jdh

The only intrinsic value in a Gibson is what you're willing to pay for it. Personally I think it's stupid to buy a guitar as an investment. You think Page or Clapton bought their guitars as an investment? Hell no, they bought them in order to play the hell out of them. They modded freely without consideration of the "intrinsic value" of the guitar.

trueness i want to play the thing to the max, not baby it in the closet.

[Skynyrdpicker]

I have enough invested in my Epi to buy a low end Gibson, but at the time the total amount wasn't an option. All the upgrades happened over time, when the money was available

[dave-m]

My 09 Epi Les Paul HCS cost me $615, SD Alnico 2 Pro's $200, Upgrade wiring with CTS pots, Vitamin T caps, Switchcraft Toggle and Jack $110, 18:1 Grover Nickel Rotomatics $60, Gotoh Nickel Bridge and Aluminum Tailpiece $65, Tusq Nut $7 and Gold Reflector Knobs $20. I did all the work and setup myself. Total comes to $1077. All prices Canadian with tax added.

For $1008 I could have bought a Gibson Les Paul Studio Worn Cherry(IMO a hideous guitar that I would never buy) that I would have changed the pups, pots, caps, knobs and nut on for an additional $350. Total for that would be $1358.

If I was to buy a Studio it would be a Wine Red with Chrome Hardware which runs $1364 and still do upgrades totalling $350. That would put the total around $1714.

So in my case the Epi fully upgraded is $637 less then a new Studio that I would actually buy.

[Diocletian]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

I don't believe I could even think of upgrading the pickups on an Epi until I have totally replaced pots, caps and toggle switch. By then, the original pickups may sound like new ones.

I might do that over time when parts fail but I've had no problem with the electronics on my Epis (other than a cap change or two). On the other hand I totally redid the wiring in a Squier using CTS pots, orange drops, switchcraft switch and all that stuff and never noticed any difference at all in the tone.
So I don't do that any more!

[Chocobo]

In response to the general topic question, YES, many, many Epis are more expensive than some Gibsons.

An Elitist LP is more expensive than a Gibson Studio.
Many other Elitists are more expensive than other Gibson guitars.

[4nd3h]

Gibson Melody Makers where like 500 dollars during production, and Epiphone Elitist Byrdlands were like 2 grand. So yes.

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by Raffie..

what type of pots, caps and toggle switch that will be a nice replacement to epi LP?

CTS Pots, Switchcraft toggle.
Browse through the Epiphone forums and the Tone Freaks forum. You will find many options and how-to's.

One place to check out:
ToneMojo.com Got your Tone-Mojo Working?