Help! Need advice! Ebay item not shipped: Jimmy Page / Tom Murphy $$$

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by BCRGreg

He's cooperating while looking to cover his ass.

I will personally fly out there and jam a running lawnmower up his ass if you say the word.

He's dirty, I guarantee.

Ge on him before HE disappears.

He's stuck where he's at; has a wife and kids. I do feel that he is the middle man, the mule, here. Not saying he is not liable. Seems like a nice guy who was desperate for for $ and got conned. Still. I am out $15,000 and he got more than $1,000 of it in commission.

[VastHorizon]

Originally Posted by blaze_022

he got 7% of $15,000
Thats still £1050 he got,
They will be able to trace what acount it went to in russia,
And from there on,
I still feel after reading this, that he was part of it,
I would sue his ass,

He had to know something,
I feel for you man,
and on a lighter note, if he will give you what he earned..... you only really lost $13950

Sorry man, trying to chear you up, hope you sue him and get your cash back,

With the cash he got back, he can buy a used LP Studio! Just trying to cheer you up man.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by vasthorizon

If this is what really happened, then both of you are victims.

That is true. But he could be liable for a lot.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by blaze_022

he got 7% of $15,000
Thats still £1050 he got,
They will be able to trace what acount it went to in russia,
And from there on,
I still feel after reading this, that he was part of it,
I would sue his ass,

He had to know something,
I feel for you man,
and on a lighter note, if he will give you what he earned..... you only really lost $13950

Sorry man, trying to chear you up, hope you sue him and get your cash back,

It went via western union / money gram; so it did not go to an account. It was cash.

[martin6string]

To the OP, I'm very sorry to hear this. I'm a Certified Fraud Examiner and I see this kind of stuff all the time.

My best advice to you is document absolutely everything and contact a lawyer.

Best of luck.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by JPP373

I really think so..If what he says is true Ebay would've shut down the account during the 2 weeks of your transaction. Since this guy owns the account and everything is Legit as far as Ebay is concerned (except the Bad Deal ofcourse)...Ebay won't shut it down.

Ebay won't do crap, they rarely go after fraud auctions when we point them out; they let them run. Sometimes they will take one down, but from what I have seen, not in most cases. They want me to wait out the 2 weeks without a delivery, then escalate the case since the seller won't respond.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by JPP373

I really think so..If what he says is true Ebay would've shut down the account during the 2 weeks of your transaction. Since this guy owns the account and everything is Legit as far as Ebay is concerned (except the Bad Deal ofcourse)...Ebay won't shut it down.

The guy I have been talking today, the middle man, does not own the account.

[JPP373]

I had my acount Hi-jacked about 6 years ago..Got an email saying my Ebay account had an Over due bill or something. The link directed me to what Looked like an Ebay log in. I logged in and the Page went blank. I thought thats wierd. Mind you this was before people knew what the hell was going with Phish Emails. The next morning i saw i was suddenly selling Crappy Cameras and Other Goofy Electronics instead of Golf Clubs(boy how times have changed in the Club Market-yikes). I reported the problem to Ebay and within 24 hours my account was shut down. I had to come up with a new user name. Point is i just can't believe the Ebayer didn't know what was going on with his account.

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

Ebay won't do crap, they rarely go after fraud auctions when we point them out; they let them run. Sometimes they will take one down, but from what I have seen, not in most cases. They want me to wait out the 2 weeks without a delivery, then escalate the case since the seller won't respond.

True, but go through all the proper channels to cover yourself.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by martin6string

To the OP, I'm very sorry to hear this. I'm a Certified Fraud Examiner and I see this kind of stuff all the time.

My best advice to you is document absolutely everything and contact a lawyer.

Best of luck.

Thanks Matt. First I plan to file a police report so that it is an official complaint. My polcie officer friend told me they get this a lot on the internet and it starts with a police report. They escalate it to other agencies if needed. If there is a case for a law suit that would show I can get some money from someone that is within reach, I may pusue that as well. But winning a civil suit and collecting are two different things; yet my lawyer will want to get paid.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by JPP373

I had my acount Hi-jacked about 6 years ago..Got an email saying my Ebay account had an Over due bill or something. The link directed me to what Looked like an Ebay log in. I logged in and the Page went blank. I thought thats wierd. Mind you this was before people knew what the hell was going with Phish Emails. The next morning i saw i was suddenly selling Crappy Cameras and Other Goofy Electronics instead of Golf Clubs(boy how times have changed in the Club Market-yikes). I reported the problem to Ebay and within 24 hours my account was shut down. I had to come up with a new user name. Point is i just can't believe the Ebayer didn't know what was going on with his account.

The ebayer I have been dealing with the past two weeks led me to believe he was the owner of the account. Nobody is denying that. The middle man I talked to today ha nothing to do with ebay at all.

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

Thanks Matt. First I plan to file a police report so that it is an official complaint. My polcie officer friend told me they get this a lot on the internet and it starts with a police report. They escalate it to other agencies if needed. If there is a case for a law suit that would show I can get some money from someone that is within reach, I may pusue that as well. But winning a civil suit and collecting are two different things; yet my lawyer will want to get paid.

Indeed. Even if you don't pursue legal action, it wouldn't hurt to have an initial consultation with a lawyer to see exactly what you options, if any, are.

Again, good luck. Reading stuff like this makes me lose faith in mankind!

[dennistruckdriver]

This is the most interesting thread I have read in a long time.
Isn't this a federal crime if the internet is used, and if overseas persons are concerned, isn't it then INTERNATIONAL wire fraud? That's 'big prison' stuff, isn't it?

[guitarfish]

The bank wire was a huge mistake, as stated earlier. ALWAYS use a credit card. Even with Paypal, opt to use an alternate funding source - your credit card - instead of your bank account. This way you always have the credit card company in the loop to fight for you. I would never EVER send a chunk of money like that without some serious protections in place.

What took place is crime - as stated, law enforcement s/b involved.

Regardless of whatever happened on the seller's end, the bottom line (as far as you as the buyer is concerned), is that you and he had a binding legal agreement of sale. He owes you either the axe, or $15K. You aren't responsible for where the money went. Don't even waste your time getting into that trap. It's just a distraction.

Considering the amount of money, yeah, I'd probably be seeking legal representation, and filing against this guy. Let him tell his story to the judge. Even if the money is gone, you can still get a judgement against him.

I hate to sound cruel, but maybe your experience can be a lesson to others here. Very sorry man.

[gearitis]

I would bet that the person that started that eBay account in 2000 has no idea that it was even being used recently. If you look at the feedback posted there is none for a nearly four year span from Jul-01-04 to Jun-27-08.

Someone hijacked that account and started using it in June of this year to set up the scam. The old feedback from 2000-2004 mentions t-shirts and dresses, but no guitars. Suddenly after four years of not selling or buying a thing they start selling cheap Boss pedals and picks and eventually very expensive guitars. It seems very unlikely that it is the same person that started the account.

Maybe eBay should shut down dormant accounts after a certain period of time to prevent an unused account with hundreds of feedbacks from being stolen.

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

This is the most interesting thread I have read in a long time.
Isn't this a federal crime if the internet is used, and if overseas persons are concerned, isn't it then INTERNATIONAL wire fraud? That's 'big prison' stuff, isn't it?

The problem is the international part. It's difficult to prosecute when your talking about an international transaction.

And not to minimize or make light of the OP's loss, but it's small change as far as what the Fed's deal with on a daily basis. Doesn't make it right, just reality. I sincerely hope the OP is made whole in this fiasco and that the perpetrators feel the wrath of kane.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by gearitis

I would bet that the person that started that eBay account in 2000 has no idea that it was even being used recently. If you look at the feedback posted there is none for a nearly four year span from Jul-01-04 to Jun-27-08.

Someone hijacked that account and started using it in June of this year to set up the scam. The old feedback from 2000-2004 mentions t-shirts and dresses, but no guitars. Suddenly after four years of not selling or buying a thing they start selling cheap Boss pedals and picks and eventually very expensive guitars. It seems very unlikely that it is the same person that started the account.

Maybe eBay should shut down dormant accounts after a certain period of time to prevent an unused account with hundreds of feedbacks from being stolen.

I think ebay should be liable too. This account was given negative feedback in the past for not delivering the item after it was paid for.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by martin6string

The problem is the international part. It's difficult to prosecute when your talking about an international transaction.

And not to minimize or make light of the OP's loss, but it's small change as far as what the Fed's deal with on a daily basis. Doesn't make it right, just reality. I sincerely hope the OP is made whole in this fiasco and that the perpetrators feel the wrath of kane.

I was told that unless it was about 1/4 of a million $, it would not even get looked at unless I opened a report online with the FBI & they were able to find a bunch of others that did the same thing & put them together & go after them; and if international, they don't have any recourse. If you have not read the link above to the article that came out today regarding mules, you should. It is exactly what happened here. Dang. $15K not only buys the aged Page, but I could have bought a decent late 60s Les Paul instead! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

I was told that unless it was about 1/4 of a million $, it would not even get looked at unless I opened a report online with the FBI & they were able to find a bunch of others that did the same thing & put them together & go after them; and if international, they don't have any recourse. If you have not read the link above to the article that came out today regarding mules, you should. It is exactly what happened here. Dang. $15K not only buys the aged Page, but I could have bought a decent late 60s Les Paul instead! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh

Found the link...I'll check it out.

[Gunner]

I just finished reading this entire thread. I have "that sick feeling in my stomach" just reading it. I can't imagine how badly you must feel. I'm sorry to read about your difficulties and hope that the Police may be able to help you. This sucks.

[lifele55]

Ahh man...this is agony bro. I'm not even on this side of the forums often but I went through all the pages on this thread and I was shocked it was $15k!

Sorry to hear what happened, really hoped the authorities or Ebay or whoever, can and will do something about it. $15k is definitely a huge hole to cover!

[Joeydego]

I just read 6 pages and damn. Thats ALOT of dough.

[moff40]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

It isn't his account. They are identifying themselves in email communications using his name, but it is not him. Read the article that was posted above:

Bad economy helping Web scammers recruit `mules' (AP) by AP: Yahoo! Tech

It will explain that the guy I have been talkign to today, the cooperative guy, is the middle man. They call him a mule in these scams.

Then who did you talk to on the phone - the person who told you the guitar was in a vault and would be shipped right away? Surely they didn't forward a US phone number to Russia!

Jimmy - make no mistake - you may have befriended him (I see you're referring to him by first name...), but my feeling is this middleman is scamming you. And the offer to give you back the 7% is just a way to get you off his back without getting the law involved.

Get on him NOW with all the law enforcement you can muster!

[HungryBenji]

Sorry for the bad luck on this one....

You do have the best/healthiest outlook on it though…..be thankful for what you have.

Call the cops…get a report...call the FBI…talk to an attorney….but other than that…..there is not really much you can do. The “American middle man” might have some dumb culpability in this…but like you said….he doesn’t have any money…if you are going to sue someone…you sue McDonalds…or Wal-Mart….not some poor unemployed guy that you can’t collect on.

As a last shot in the dark…try emailing and calling 20/20…or some big TV personality…play up that the scum bags are probably using the money you were defrauded of to sponsor terrorism….who knows…maybe Barbara Walters and The View will chase down your Russian terrorists.

[moff40]

Originally Posted by HungryBenji

….he doesn’t have any money…if you are going to sue someone…you sue McDonalds…or Wal-Mart….not some poor unemployed guy that you can’t collect on...

Again, do we have any real evidence that the guy is unemployed and he doesn't have any money, or do we just have his word for that? Maybe I've missed something over the course of this thread, but it appears to me that they've only talked on the phone, not in person, and not at the possible perp's house. I'd imagine lying over the phone could come pretty easy to a guy who can defraud somebody out of 15 grand.

[jimmyq]

Hey Jimmy,

Really sorry to hear that this has gone so wrong for you, I hope that somehow it works out Ok in the end.

Jimbo

[markophonic]

Originally Posted by ellem52

Wait. Stop.

The middle man. The American. He's a bad guy. Make no mistake, not knowing you broke the law is not a defense. You need to go after this guy. Plus he's probably lying. It's very easy to be helpful now that the money is gone. He could be counting as I type this.

He got paid at some point. Let the FBI start tracking it.

I'm sorry. Mr. Unemployed American IS a criminal.

I agree...Mr. Unemployed American is probably unemployed because he doesn't have to work...He did his JOB by sending the $$$ to Russia. This guy has to get paid something for sending this cash around the world...HE must get a cut for playing the part of the patsy.

[roamer]

JimmyAce,

I am really sorry to hear about your situation, and I am not trying to pile on but I do think that having as many people as possible tell you this may help:

Call the cops. As soon as possible. Maybe the middleman is an unwilling dupe, maybe not. The truth is, it's not your job to figure that out. Contact the authorities and let them track this whole thing down and figure out what, if any, part he played in the scam.

On a side note, getting scammed sucks and most people that lose money to a scam, let alone as much as you did in this case, are very reluctant to talk about it because they are embarrassed. I want to thank you for not falling into that trap and for getting this information about what happened to you out so that others can see and learn from it.

Good luck on this. Oh...and call the cops.

[GibsonSlash]

Jimmy sorry to ask this, so what's the next move you are going to do after this?

[stoof]

JimmyAce, I m really sorry about what happened to u
I think ebaY is also responsible for this....
I really hope you'll have a happy-end.......

Good luck....