Help! Need advice! Ebay item not shipped: Jimmy Page / Tom Murphy $$$

[Led Zep Fan]

That's too easy, I was thinking

[ajaxajax2000]

Originally Posted by Led Zep Fan

That's too easy, I was thinking

Hey Led, you've got a meeeeaaan streak, there.

But seriousely, JimmyAce. I think you need to have another look at this story. Try to get some good advice from a professional cop/legal person. Then nail this succer and try to get your money back!

[Slidewinder]

Assuming you have his address and phone number I'd just bring a friend for moral support, rent a car for a day or two and drive down to his location. Not to do any physical damage or anything that could get you locked up, just to see if you can meet him and pick the guitar up in person. Do a printout of the ebay transaction and the paypal transaction and possibly go to a police station in his town to see if they can do anything one you're actually there to show and present evidence that clearly shows you've been screwed. The police might have a different opinion if you show up in person.
Whether you contact him or not is up to you( I wouldn't) but if you show up fairly early in the day you might be able to surprise him and either get your guitar or let him know you're contacting the police in regards to theft and internet fraud. You might have to stay over at a hotel or motel for the night but there's no substitute for doing things in person. Again I'd stress not to do anything that would land you in hot water. Just the fact that you're there will probably show him you don't intend to sit back and see what happens.

[Physical_rocks]

Originally Posted by Slidewinder

Assuming you have his address and phone number I'd just bring a friend for moral support, rent a car for a day or two and drive down to his location. Not to do any physical damage or anything that could get you locked up, just to see if you can meet him and pick the guitar up in person. Do a printout of the ebay transaction and the paypal transaction and possibly go to a police station in his town to see if they can do anything one you're actually there to show and present evidence that clearly shows you've been screwed. The police might have a different opinion if you show up in person.
Whether you contact him or not is up to you( I wouldn't) but if you show up fairly early in the day you might be able to surprise him and either get your guitar or let him know you're contacting the police in regards to theft and internet fraud. You might have to stay over at a hotel or motel for the night but there's no substitute for doing things in person. Again I'd stress not to do anything that would land you in hot water. Just the fact that you're there will probably show him you don't intend to sit back and see what happens.

Thats what I was thinking, play possum early in the morning and confront the guy, the police will prob be willing to go with you on the matter. I wonder if he even as the said guitar? As good as it would feel to bash the guys skull in I would wait. Bring a video camera too, make sure you get it on tape. Or call the news and have them do a cover story they love getting in on good scoops like this...

[Extremerocker827]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

My money is gone. I was able to get his real number from someone. He was duped like me. Here is how it went down. He is unemployed. He went onto Career Builders online & found someone who wanted him to start his own business & make money. Before taking their employment, he checked them out with the Better Business Bureau in their home state. They had a perfect record for 5 years. So he went to work for them. Let's assume his name is John Doe. This company sets up a business called John Doe Online Services. And they set up a bank account in the name of his company. They send transactions to his bank account. He does not know where they come from. All he sees is a name and an amount. He takes the money out of the account and sends a money gram or Western Union payment to an individual in another country. He was familiar with my name and the amount I paid. He said he tried to find me but he had a bogus phone number for me. He sent the money to Russia. So when I called today, he was surprised to find out his employer has used his name on an ebay account and set up several bogus phone numbers in his name (identity theft), and fraudulently sold items using his name. Who knows if they are on Craigslist, ebay, etc. ? I am still owndering how they got 459 feedback score, 100% positive. Maybe they pruchased the ebay store from the original owner? Maybe they have been legit until now? The money is gone, no way to get it back. But this guy has been in contact with the local FBI & Fed Trade Commiss & Attorney General, has been calling me & giving me info on his contact at the company, etc. He seems pretty stressed out that he's possibly in trouble. I contacted my bank & asked them if they can get involved from the fraud stand point & who I might need to get involved as well. I wonder if my homeowners policy or maybe his policy would cover identity theft; some do. I plan to post the link to the auction at some point, but not yet.

He still might be making ALL this up, just so you don't go after him. As someone else said, tell law enforcement of ALL the possible suspects(him, and the supposed to company, and anyone in it) and then let the court sort it out. 15k is a lot, and I'm sure you can get it sorted out. This looks like a at large company if im not mistaken, so if the FBI or CIA cant manage to get them, I'm sure the government would give you money. Well now that I think about it, it was over ebay so maybe not. But this is a bad case, i would be sooooooo pissed if i were you right now. I feel for ya....

[denwing]

I really think ebay should be held to higher degree of responsibility for preventing fradulant cases that they are basically sponsoring thru their business.

[155]

I dont believe his story, dude, hunt this guy down now! scare him into giving the money back whether its him or not! bring a friend too for witness to cover your ass, as in he threw the first punch , no what I meen!

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by rybass

This is getting beat into the ground but my experience:

I bought a bassman head a few years ago. Paypal'd the money the guy transfers it to his bank and says he'll ship. I wait two weeks then contact. No response for another week. I contacted paypal. They wouldn't issue me a refund because he had withdrawn the money already, they said sorry you can file a claim with ebay and they will tell you the same. So I called my bank. Customer service looked up the states FBI internet fraud location called them and conferenced me in. Agent told me this was a minor issue but he would make a quick call. 3 days later I had my amp and my bank threatened paypal so I ended up with a 75% refund too.

I would not leave negative feedback until the issue is resolved b/c if anything that is a tiny piece of leverage and if you use it early that is one more reason for him not to resolve this. I would call and politely give him an ultimatum and a timeframe that you will follow before contacting the police and FBI. I would leave a VM and email, CC ebay resolutions center and a bank rep in the email so that there is record. If you don't hear back or he doesn't comply then move forward and send him a email with each step. He'll move on some sort of action if you take logical steps and keep it civil in the communication. If it comes to a legal battle you will need the email records that you send him.

15K should warrant a federal case if I'm not mistaken and why is your bank not doing more? Mine was for $600 and my bank was all over it and all over paypal.

My bank says that a bank wire is like cash and there is no recourse. They tried a wire recall, but the other bank said it was up to the owner of the other account as to whether they would issue the refund.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by moff40

Interesting story. Can you confirm any of this, or is it just a story the guy told you once you'd found him? Pardon my skepticism, but if it was me, I'd call "bull5h1t". Did you actually witness him sending money to Russia or calling the FBI? It's probably just a very well rehearsed scenario created in case he got found. I'd still contact the authorities and report HIM, at least for his part in the scam. Let him prove in court that he was also an unwitting victim...

I feel for you though, man. That's a lot of loot to have been scammed out of.

He is faxing all the documents to me; he has documentation on who it went to in Russia - 2 individuals. He has documents of the company he worked for; gave me his contact's name. Looks like their web site might be Chinese.

[moneyfornothing]

The minute I read "I paid the guy via bank to bank wire the following day", I knew how it was going to turn out....

NEVER EVER do a bank transfer, that is a classic sign of a scam. Sure, you may think, ya the guy has 500 feedback, 100 percent, etc, but I would NEVER do a bank transfer. The sale would be off, I don’t care how much GAS I have, or how good a deal it is ( too good to be true would take precedent if it was that good).

I feel for the OP. It really must suck. Buyer ALWAYS Beware no matter what is the rule of thumb...

I recently did a guitar trade that started to turn bad. Mainly the other party kept putting off sending his guitar. I think he wanted to "look" at my guitar before he sent his. I called FEDEX and had my guitar sent back to me before it was delivered. The guy then realized I was serious. I made him pay for the return shipping, and he sent his guitar the following day...

Always leave yourself an out wherever you can. All my Ebay purchases are used using Paypal, and using a Credit Card. If PayPal jerks me around, I'll call My CC Company. It may not work in the end, but its just a few layers of protection. My CC Company may take the hit in the end. They may not, but there outs to me.

Also COD (cash on delivery), is a good thing too. I just did a deal, and that seemed to be the right thing to do. It was from an out of town Craigslist ad.

I recently found a Les Paul, that was Neal Schon's supposedly. The guy said I need to wire the money, he was out of town, bla bla bla. Moneybookers was his scam. I knew it was a scam, I string him along for a few weeks.

NEVER do a bank transfer. Once its transferred its gone....leave yourself as many outs as you can.

Sorry to the original poster however, god I feel the pain.

[Slidewinder]

If he is on the level then a call from you to the local FBI, Fed Trade Commiss or Attorney General should be able to back up his story. They'll have it on file.
If he is just making excuses and realizes he's in over his head I don't blame him for being stressed. Make the call and check his story out for yourself.

[gearitis]

There are a lot of strange things going on in this deal.

I wonder if the $14000.00 '62 Les Paul SG that this same seller supposedly sold on Oct-23-08 was even a real deal. That buyer hadn't made an eBay purchase since Feb-21-08 and a lot of their existing feedback seems to be for sports cards with nothing obviously musical showing up. A hijacked account with a fake high dollar guitar purchase to make someone feel OK with wiring money for another high dollar guitar?

The seller in question seems to have sold a lot of Boss tuners, Boss DS-1 pedals and guitar picks with only one other guitar sale which is for a '61 SG Reissue at $2390. That auction shows no real photos, just a single stock photo. Also, that guitar is available from Musician's Friend for $1999.00. That buyer received no feedback from the seller in question and that buyer's most recent eBay purchase seems to have been on Jul-08-08. Again their feedback shows no obvious musical gear purchases. Instead it shows some books and a DVD. Another hijacked account with a fake guitar purchase so that the seller in question can show a history of guitar sales? Perhaps.

Even though the seller has been an eBay member since Nov-10-00 with a feedback rating of 459 you have to look at the details. Here's the kicker for me. The seller in question has a four year gap in their eBay feedback. There is nothing between Jul-01-04 and Jun-27-08!!!!! A lot of the feedback prior to Jul-01-04 mentions T-Shirts and dresses. That sure looks like it could be a hijacked account to me.

To me it looks like someone may have hijacked a dormant account, sold a bunch of low dollar pedals and picks to get a recent track record going, hijacked another account (or two) to add a couple of guitar sales to their feedback record for appearances (the SG reissue deal could be real-who knows), and then they lay out the big bait of a Jimmy Page Murphy with payment by wire transfer only.

I'd get the police and FBI (if possible) involved ASAP!

[FastFret]

Could you post his E-Bay name........ Just curious, I would like to view his feedbacks and his account in general....... Good Luck and I sure hope you nail this SOB Bro.!

[JimmyAce2006]

I plan to do that tomorrow. The trouble is that Dale told me he sent the money to Russia already via moeny gram / western union. It is gone.

[kernelofwisdom]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

I plan to do that tomorrow. The trouble is that Dale told me he sent the money to Russia already via moeny gram / western union. It is gone.

Certainly in this state, you could sue him personally for the money, as this outcome reasonably could have been foreseen by him, from the facts you have outlined. Ultra-sweet? In NC, and maybe in your state, you could sue him for engaging in unfair and deceptive trade practices, which here provide for three times actual damages and attorneys' fees. I have personally lit people up for more for doing less.

Maybe he doesn't have the money, but if you get a judgment against him it should last for years and years and if he ever gets money you can have the judgment executed then. It will also be on his credit. If he moves, well you can have that judgment follow him to the next state.

-kow

[Last]

I bought an R6 GT on ebay last month & the guy had it clearly listed in his ad that he only wanted a wire xfer or western union xfer otherwise he would charge me for Paypal fees (as eBay now forces ((so he said)) for him to have to use this as well).

But! I would have to pay for the paypal fees which was an additional $65.00 on top of my winning bid. I came very close to doing the xfer but decided that for $65 it would be a small insurance coverage to have Paypal on my side.

During this time while I was deciding I had saved R6's as a daily email from eBay on new listings. Well, what do you know but I see the exact same guitar that I just bought from the other guy. Same planted pots in the background same porch same everything!

I had already paid by Paypal after seeing the other ad but did let him know that I'd contacted eBay fraud about his pics being used in another auction. He never said a word or was concerned in the least.

I do think that some of these guitars as well as other high ticket items are being sold more than once especially when they know you have little recourse using a wire xfer.

I received the guitar no problem within a week & am very happy but things certainly looked fishy. Especially when he seemed disinterested in the other auction with his pics!

Of course the other auction was shut down soon after I made my complaint but did find this guys reaction very strange.

I know this doesn't help in your situation but I hope others here will read this & take it for what it's worth.

Always vigilant!

[jomo]

Originally Posted by Last

I bought an R6 GT on ebay last month & the guy had it clearly listed in his ad that he only wanted a wire xfer or western union xfer otherwise he would charge me for Paypal fees (as eBay now forces ((so he said)) for him to have to use this as well).

But! I would have to pay for the paypal fees which was an additional $65.00 on top of my winning bid. I came very close to doing the xfer but decided that for $65 it would be a small insurance coverage to have Paypal on my side.

During this time while I was deciding I had saved R6's as a daily email from eBay on new listings. Well, what do you know but I see the exact same guitar that I just bought from the other guy. Same planted pots in the background same porch same everything!

I had already paid by Paypal after seeing the other ad but did let him know that I'd contacted eBay fraud about his pics being used in another auction. He never said a word or was concerned in the least.

I do think that some of these guitars as well as other high ticket items are being sold more than once especially when they know you have little recourse using a wire xfer.

I received the guitar no problem within a week & am very happy but things certainly looked fishy. Especially when he seemed disinterested in the other auction with his pics!

Of course the other auction was shut down soon after I made my complaint but did find this guys reaction very strange.

I know this doesn't help in your situation but I hope others here will read this & take it for what it's worth.

Always vigilant!

According to ebay rules, a seller CANNOT charge the PayPal fees to the buyer. I've eaten those fees many times. as a matter of fact my last one was $65 too. It's all a pain in the ass, I had PayPal lock up $385 of my money because some jackass was trying to scam me. I got it back but it really pisses me off that as much money as they make off of me, they are going to take a scammer's word and freeze my money without talking to me.
Sorry, got off the subject. Jimmy, I am sick for you over this man, I really hope that you get some resolution. All this crap really makes me think about getting out of my buying/selling/ebay hobby.

[gearitis]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

I plan to do that tomorrow. The trouble is that Dale told me he sent the money to Russia already via moeny gram / western union. It is gone.

Man, I am so sorry for what happened! I got burned twice on eBay in the early days. Fortunately, it added up to less than $300.00.

So am I correct in guessing that Dale had no knowledge of the eBay account, that account was in fact a hijacked account, there never was a Jimmy Page Murphy guitar, and Dale was just used as a stateside money forwarder/launderer?

[River]

I feel PayPal is a necessary evil. Without it, eBay is the wild west. Well, I guess it is anyway.

Credit card companies do not allow merchants to pass their fees through either, but many do it and get away with it.

As I see it, PayPal is eBay's way of proving that they are policing their market, to forestall lawsuits.

Separately, please consider that the penalty for rolling someone will make $15k look like chump-change.

[JPP373]

I would go after Dale..Dale is connected. On the Pay Pal Fee of 3% using a credit card is standard. Our business has payed anywhere from 2-3.5% fees to Credit Card componies. We just negotiated down to 2.3%. Takes A LOT of transactions to bring it down..So i'm sure Pay Pal is making a small % but not the Full 3%. When i sell i ask they use E-check $5..or split fees. If not no big deal. Its a service Pay Pal provides with protection. Protection factored in with a legitimate person living in a legitimate town and so on. The whole Scam makes me Sick..Feel Horrible for JImmmy but i'm glad he's sharing to educate us on another scam out there. I always wonderd if someone would do this..Create a fake EBay account..Fake history over time to set up a scam down the road.

[FastFret]

The guys Feedback rating was not 100%... it was only 94.6 I looked through the transactions and saw that he had done this b4 with someone else. A guy sent the money and said he never received item...........

[River]

Any reason not to post a link here? I'd sure like to take a look.

[FastFret]

He sent me a copy in my e-mail so, its up to him to post it here.. I'm sure he will.......

[Huey]

damn dude, i just read this and thought how lucky i was on the fleabay, i hope they catch these mofos

[gearitis]

Originally Posted by FastFret

He sent me a copy in my e-mail so, its up to him to post it here.. I'm sure he will.......

That was me that sent the info.

I'll let JimmyAce2006 post it in this thread.

[gearitis]

Originally Posted by FastFret

The guys Feedback rating was not 100%... it was only 94.6 I looked through the transactions and saw that he had done this b4 with someone else. A guy sent the money and said he never received item...........

That negative feedback was left today. I'm pretty sure that it was left by JimmyAce2006.

[FastFret]

His feedback is 94.7 and here is what one of the other guys that got screwed from him said ......' FFFF, never receice my hat after i purchase them and paid for them and lied Buyer: lordski23 ( 483) Oct-23-02 00:08
-- (#954428327) ' you have to hit the tab that says show all feedback........ I just hope that theirs someway he can recover his money man, thats alot of money where i come from

[Bizarro]

This is an unfortunate situation. I do not believe the "middleman" is an innocent dupe. Go after him with the appropriate Law Enforcement Agency in his jurisdiction and he just "may" cough up the money if there is danger the whole scam may be exposed and prosecuted.

[Tuxedo Kaz]

Okay, breathe.

Seriously dude, have you tried, I don't know, the ebay system for Item Not Recieved? You cannot just jump into legal action.

Don't be a moron. And I mean that in an honest, will save you stress way.

[FastFret]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo Kaz

Okay, breathe.

Seriously dude, have you tried, I don't know, the ebay system for Item Not Recieved? You cannot just jump into legal action.

Don't be a moron. And I mean that in an honest, will save you stress way.

DUDE, This is $15,000.00 this makes me sick so I can only imagine what Jimmy feels...................