Help! Need advice! Ebay item not shipped: Jimmy Page / Tom Murphy $$$

[River]

Originally Posted by moneyfornothing

Are you kidding me? You can afford to wire someone 15K for a "guitar" , and now want to cry poormouth?

No need to be rude. For all you know he wired his last dime, or the chances of success aren't good enough to throw good money after bad.

[moneyfornothing]

I doubt it was his last dime he spent...Granted it may have been rude, but when everyone is suggesting that he contact a lawyer and he says "where do i get $$ for a lawyer", is just kind of ridiculous and begging for a comment like this. He spent 15K on a guitar............

If he spent his last dime on this guitar, as in fact broke, well, I will keep my comments to myself....I hardly believe this is the case however.....

If the chances for success aren’t good enough, fair enough, but crying "where do I get $$ for a lawyer" when you bought a 15K guitar is ridiculous. There are many people in this country that say "were do I get money to pay the electric bill"...when you can say that, then you can say where do I get the $$ for a lawyer. When you get to spend 15K on a guitar, you don’t get to say either.....Or you may get to say it, but expect some comments from people like me.....

Granted the dude got screwed, and I feel for him on some level, but I believe in personal responsibility highly. He sent 15k away on a bank transfer..classic sign of a scam......he wasnt a very responsible person with his money......He should have done research, or better yet , ask for advice before sending 15K away on a wire transfer......

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by moneyfornothing

I doubt it was his last dime he spent...Granted it may have been rude, but when everyone is suggesting that he contact a lawyer and he says "where do i get $$ for a lawyer", is just kind of ridiculous and begging for a comment like this. He spent 15K on a guitar............

If he spent his last dime on this guitar, as in fact broke, well, I will keep my comments to myself....I hardly believe this is the case however.....

If the chances for success aren’t good enough, fair enough, but crying "where do I get $$ for a lawyer" when you bought a 15K guitar is ridiculous. There are many people in this country that say "were do I get money to pay the electric bill"...when you can say that, then you can say where do I get the $$ for a lawyer. When you get to spend 15K on a guitar, you don’t get to say either.....Or you may get to say it, but expect some comments from people like me.....

Granted the dude got screwed, and I feel for him on some level, but I believe in personal responsibility highly. He sent 15k away on a bank transfer..classic sign of a scam......he wasnt a very responsible person with his money......He should have done research, or better yet , ask for advice before sending 15K away on a wire transfer......

Dude, you have no idea what sort of research I did. I find your comments to be completely offensive and out of line.

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by moneyfornothing

Are you kidding me? You can afford to wire someone 15K for a "guitar" , and now want to cry poormouth?

You know, the guy got screwed on a deal. The details of his financial situation are not our business. He simply asked for help from the forum brothers. Since you obviously have nothing to say worth posting, why don't you just move along to another thread.

[JimmyAce2006]

Thanks Matt!

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

....In that case, is ebay liable?....

eBay profited from the sale, so I believe they may have some liability.

[moneyfornothing]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

Dude, you have no idea what sort of research I did. I find your comments to be completely offensive and out of line.

Granted I may be out of line, and I apologize. However, a lot of people who purchase online and do business online know that a bank transfer is a classic sign of a scam. Maybe you were disillusioned by the positive feedback, etc, however, I would have never done a bank transfer, and if you had asked in this forum beforehand, I am sure some members would have told you about hijacked accounts, etc.....

If you are unaware of a bank transfer being a warning sign, then I question your research into internet buying, scams, etc. I know this, and I have never made a purchase of this size. I know that a bank transfer is a big warning sign. Although not related to Ebay, It’s practically posted on every Craigslist ad. This means to me to stay away from wire transfers in general.

"Beware any deal involving Western Union, Moneygram, wire transfer, cashier check, money order, shipping, escrow, or any promise of transaction protection/certification/guarantee"

I've done many deals online, and I always use the maximum amount of protection I can get. You didn’t leave yourself any outs.....A bank transfer, once done, is a done deal, as you are finding out, after the fact.

Scams are out there and are abundant. If you were unaware of scamming going on, then your research wasn’t very good, and if it sounds rude and out of line so be it, but there is some amount of truth to it. If you were just not aware of scams, then I apologize, but I would say you need to make yourself aware. Especially before sending off 15K.

What happened to Buyer Beware?

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by moneyfornothing

Granted I may be out of line, and I apologize. However, a lot of people who purchase online and do business online know that a bank transfer is a classic sign of a scam. Maybe you were disillusioned by the positive feedback, etc, however, I would have never done a bank transfer, and if you had asked in this forum beforehand, I am sure some members would have told you about hijacked accounts, etc.....

If you are unaware of a bank transfer being a warning sign, then I question your research into internet buying, scams, etc. I know this, and I have never made a purchase of this size. I know that a bank transfer is a big warning sign. Although not related to Ebay, It’s practically posted on every Craigslist ad. This means to me to stay away from wire transfers in general.

"Beware any deal involving Western Union, Moneygram, wire transfer, cashier check, money order, shipping, escrow, or any promise of transaction protection/certification/guarantee"

I've done many deals online, and I always use the maximum amount of protection I can get. You didn’t leave yourself any outs.....A bank transfer, once done, is a done deal, as you are finding out, after the fact.

Scams are out there and are abundant. If you were unaware of scamming going on, then your research wasn’t very good, and if it sounds rude and out of line so be it, but there is some amount of truth to it. If you were just not aware of scams, then I apologize, but I would say you need to make yourself aware. Especially before sending off 15K.

What happened to Buyer Beware?

This isn't even my money and this is starting to piss me off. Look, I don't think the original poster needs anyone else saying "you screwed up." I think he is well aware of what happened and measures he could have/would have taken given what he knows now.

I don't know what you do for a living, but fraud detection is my business.

If your object was to sling shit in this thread, congrats, but it's doing no one any good at this point.

Move on already.

[moneyfornothing]

Originally Posted by martin6string

Look, I don't think the original poster needs anyone else saying "you screwed up."

I don’t see many people saying that at all, except for me. And this thread just isn't for the OP either. You work in fraud detection, whereas if there was more fraud education (i.e. don’t send money via wire transfer), there would be less fraud going on.

Evidently, there isnt enough fraud education at all. The OP has 652 posts, and didn’t know not to use a wire transfer? I will NEVER send a wire transfer, I do not care how good the deal is, how many feedbacks, I don’t care.

In my honest opinion, there needs to be more threads like this, and more "pricks" like me saying Buyer Beware, don’t send money via wire transfer. It’s not all about the original OP....

Maybe if the OP had read a thread about a scam a few weeks ago and some "prick" came along and said, hey, "part of this is your fault, you needed to be more careful, Buyer Beware." then maybe this wouldn’t had happened? Possible...?

or is posting pics of guns more effective in fraud prevention?

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by moneyfornothing

I don’t see many people saying that at all, except for me. And this thread just isn't for the OP either. You work in fraud detection, whereas if there was more fraud education (i.e. don’t send money via wire transfer), there would be less fraud going on.

Evidently, there isnt enough fraud education at all. The OP has 652 posts, and didn’t know not to use a wire transfer? I will NEVER send a wire transfer, I do not care how good the deal is, how many feedbacks, I don’t care.

In my honest opinion, there needs to be more threads like this, and more "pricks" like me saying Buyer Beware, don’t send money via wire transfer. It’s not all about the original OP....

Maybe if the OP had read a thread about a scam a few weeks ago and some "prick" came along and said, hey, "part of this is your fault, you needed to be more careful, Buyer Beware." then maybe this wouldn’t had happened? Possible...?

or is posting pics of guns more effective in fraud prevention?

I think you made your point the first time. You are not adding value to what you said. You are just being a Monday morning quarterback. The time for that has long passed. The fact is, I am looking for a good lawyer because I plan to sue the crap out of the middle man. Maybe I can get a lien on everything he owns, since he claims to be broke.

[moneyfornothing]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

I think you made your point the first time. You are not adding value to what you said. You are just being a Monday morning quarterback. The time for that has long passed. The fact is, I am looking for a good lawyer because I plan to sue the crap out of the middle man. Maybe I can get a lien on everything he owns, since he claims to be broke.

Probably so, but for the next guy, they need to hear this stuff.

Yes, I would sue the middle guy. I dont know how much I would spend on it however. Risk vs Reward I guess.....worth a talk to a lawyer, but it doesnt sound good to me at best....

[martin6string]

Originally Posted by moneyfornothing

I don’t see many people saying that at all, except for me. And this thread just isn't for the OP either. You work in fraud detection, whereas if there was more fraud education (i.e. don’t send money via wire transfer), there would be less fraud going on.

Evidently, there isnt enough fraud education at all. The OP has 652 posts, and didn’t know not to use a wire transfer? I will NEVER send a wire transfer, I do not care how good the deal is, how many feedbacks, I don’t care.

In my honest opinion, there needs to be more threads like this, and more "pricks" like me saying Buyer Beware, don’t send money via wire transfer. It’s not all about the original OP....

Maybe if the OP had read a thread about a scam a few weeks ago and some "prick" came along and said, hey, "part of this is your fault, you needed to be more careful, Buyer Beware." then maybe this wouldn’t had happened? Possible...?

or is posting pics of guns more effective in fraud prevention?

I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with you, but I will do my best to enlighten you and anyone else who cares to partake in this discussion. The simple fact of the matter is that there are dishonest people in the world who are coming up with more cleaver ways of stealing money. Now, you can think all you want that this could never happen to you, or that your too smart to fall for a trick of this nature, but never say never. I've seen it first hand.

Granted, I personally agree with you in that I would never send a bank wire, money gram etc.. to someone I did not know. The OP did, and I'm sure regrets doing so. But don't think for a second that the buck stops with wire transfer fraud. There are alot of other schemes that dupe people, even perfect ones like yourself.

Think Steven Spielberg thought he'd be holding the bag with the recent Ponzi scheme that just happened in NY from a former NASDAQ official?

The problem I have with you personally is that you spending your time bashing the original poster (who I don't even personally know very well at all) for making a mistake that many of us could have made.

I'm more that happy to help ANYONE here, or on any other venue to REDUCE THE CHANCE of getting scammed, but I don't feel the need to be a prick about it.

[moneyfornothing]

Originally Posted by martin6string

I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with you, but I will do my best to enlighten you and anyone else who cares to partake in this discussion. The simple fact of the matter is that there are dishonest people in the world who are coming up with more cleaver ways of stealing money. Now, you can think all you want that this could never happen to you, or that your too smart to fall for a trick of this nature, but never say never. I've seen it first hand.

Granted, I personally agree with you in that I would never send a bank wire, money gram etc.. to someone I did not know. The OP did, and I'm sure regrets doing so. But don't think for a second that the buck stops with wire transfer fraud. There are alot of other schemes that dupe people, even perfect ones like yourself.

Think Steven Spielberg thought he'd be holding the bag with the recent Ponzi scheme that just happened in NY from a former NASDAQ official?

The problem I have with you personally is that you spending your time bashing the original poster (who I don't even personally know very well at all) for making a mistake that many of us could have made.

I'm more that happy to help ANYONE here, or on any other venue to REDUCE THE CHANCE of getting scammed, but I don't feel the need to be a prick about it.

Fair Enough....

[JPP373]

Everyone on this site Feels Horrible for Jimmy..However, I don't think MoneyforNothing(MFN) means Harm or is Bashing Jimmy. He's just pointing out with Sided Anger that it was A Very Stupid thing to do and Hopes that No One else will do such a thing...And/Or Ask for advice Before a Transaction is done. Afterall, there Should be No Hurry. My Mom taught me that if i get myself into a SHit situation then it was My Fault for being Stupid and My Responsiblity to get myself out of it. With that along Came A Huge Whipping Literaly! MFN is just giving Jimmy A Good WHipping So He or Anyone else won't make this Same Mistake Twice.

[axslinger]

I think Moneyfornothing should go hang out on HCAF...it would be a better fit for his style. JMO.

[axslinger]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

The seller is not the one I have here. It is the middle man who was hired by the seller. He offered to pay back the $1000+ he got for a commission. I did tell him the law will get him, put him in jail, and make him pay me back. He did not offer anything more. And now the law is saying we have to prove he knew he was doing something illegal. Not sure I can do that. But the law did say I might have a civil case against him.

This is complete crap. The police shouldn't be giving legal advice. Like I said in an earlier post, he is liable. Being an ignoramus is not an excuse. This guy could have made tens of thousands of dollars laundering money and this "cop" expects us to believe he's "off the hook" because he was too stupid to be suspicious? Hmm. Jimmy, you just might want to mention the IRS to the "mule". I am reasonably certain this guy hasn't claimed any of these funds as income. Since he isn't a W2 employee, there is no withholding. I seriously doubt he has file a W9 either. Perhaps the threat of the IRS knocking on his door might give him some incentive to work with you.

[River]

Originally Posted by axslinger

This is complete crap. The police shouldn't be giving legal advice. Like I said in an earlier post, he is liable. Being an ignoramus is not an excuse. This guy could have made tens of thousands of dollars laundering money and this "cop" expects us to believe he's "off the hook" because he was too stupid to be suspicious? Hmm. Jimmy, you just might want to mention the IRS to the "mule". I am reasonably certain this guy hasn't claimed any of these funds as income. Since he isn't a W2 employee, there is no withholding. I seriously doubt he has file a W9 either. Perhaps the threat of the IRS knocking on his door might give him some incentive to work with you.

Worked for Elliot Ness...

[JPP373]

Originally Posted by axslinger

This is complete crap. The police shouldn't be giving legal advice. Like I said in an earlier post, he is liable. Being an ignoramus is not an excuse. This guy could have made tens of thousands of dollars laundering money and this "cop" expects us to believe he's "off the hook" because he was too stupid to be suspicious? Hmm. Jimmy, you just might want to mention the IRS to the "mule". I am reasonably certain this guy hasn't claimed any of these funds as income. Since he isn't a W2 employee, there is no withholding. I seriously doubt he has file a W9 either. Perhaps the threat of the IRS knocking on his door might give him some incentive to work with you.

Best Idea yet! Get the I. Fukin R. S. on his Ass and i'll Bet he'll give up everyone he's involved with! There's a Great chance to get some Money back or at least Wreack Havoc on All their Pathetic Lives.

[GuitarnLax36]

WHO THE HELL KEEPS A GUITAR IN A BANK VAULT
This is sketchy man

[JimmyAce2006]

The detective workign my case said he told the mule that he is likely to be found liable in a civil suit. The mule told the detective that the FBI told him the same thing. Winning and collecting could be two different things unless they garnish his wages. But this is the direction I will be pursuing.

[Gasp100]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

How does that work?

I prefer to use credit card. If I get screwed, my CC company will force paypal to eat it. Then they can go after the crook.

Sorry to hear about this, I damn near read the whole thread. But in the end, I can't imagine why you would stray from your own policy? Especially with this amount of money on the line.
The other thing that strikes me as strange is if this person (middleman) really does live within driving distance (~5+ hours) why you wouldn't at least pay a visit. Not to fight or anything, but to see if the address is legit, what type of house he does live in, car he drives, etc... or better yet, contact HIS authorities as well as your own to get the ball moving. The PI info might be a way to go as well.
It also seems like it took quite a while for you to get any authorities involved at all? Sorry, I definitely feel for you (I have done excellent deals on ebay and only been semi-burned once or twice by plain old jerk sellers, not scammers). I will not be contributing to the "Jimmy" fund though...

[Gasp100]

I should mention there have been two instances where a little bit of extra effort on my part has gone a long way (but not nearly to the extent of what this requires).
I was selling some gear and had an ad on tdpri.com I got contacted by someone via there with some emails in broken English and such, strange requests that they really wanted the Tele, take if offline for sale, maybe even wire transfer request, can't remember. Anyway, total scam. So I had them email me directly (to my 'bogus' account - a free email account I use for these types of situations). I was then able to check the email headers and find the IP address used to send the original mail - Nigeria, lol! When the person said they were from the Midwest. So, I emailed them back my findings, emailed tdpri.com and also contact an online source (3C or something like that) just to get on record that the "buyers" email address, IP, etc... was being used to try and scam people.
I stupidly paid $300 in full via Paypal/credit card to have someone mod my AC30cc1. He is highly regarded everywhere as THE man for the job and works magic. Anyway, what should have been 2 weeks turned into 4 months. I tried emails, phone calls, etc... and I got to thinking I was screwed even though friends of his assured me he was going to pull through. What worked? Telling him to forget it, he can have my cash and just send back the amp unmodded. Also, I contacted friends/business partners that I know worked with him and THEY helped to set him straight. Took a while, but my amp comes back (modded) on Monday via UPS.
If you have email directly from the "mule" to you I would checked the email headers, find the starting IP address and do a looking to see where it's registered (and possibly the location of his ISP) to see if he lives where he says he does.
Now, if HE has original emails from HIS guys he could do the same... might be interested to find out what part of Russia they are from

[RnRjUnKiE]

Since a lot of you said that he should never wire money for transactions:

Here in Europe, where I have been living for a while, it's common practice to wire money between banks. Anything you do here is sent electronically, whether it be your rent, your power bill, or transactions on Ebay. It's normally considered safe, provided you follow certain guidelines.

What hasn't really been mentioned in this thread is that you need to be careful who you send money to in regards to Ebay transactions. Here are some tips, that will help you through transactions as times seem to get harder:

1. Only send money to the same account holder as the Ebay account holder, whether it be Paypal or Bank Transfer.
2. Only send to the Paypal address listed in Paypal
3. Check to see if addresses are valid using online services
4. for valuable items, use an escrow service or Paypal


If the seller in any way gives you the feeling that he'd rather put you at risk than have a smooth transaction, abort immediately.

If anyone has more points to add, plz add accordingly.

[axslinger]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

The detective workign my case said he told the mule that he is likely to be found liable in a civil suit. The mule told the detective that the FBI told him the same thing. Winning and collecting could be two different things unless they garnish his wages. But this is the direction I will be pursuing.

Good for you. Keep us posted on any progress...barring anything that could jeopardize the case.

[JimmyAce2006]

The thing jeopardizing the case now is that - amazingly - none of my friends or relatives is able to recommend an attorney for me. What should I do? Google one?

[Beerdog80]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

The thing jeopardizing the case now is that - amazingly - none of my friends or relatives is able to recommend an attorney for me. What should I do? Google one?

Place a call to your local bar association and see who had the highest degree of success in your area in dealing with cases involving your situation.

[kernelofwisdom]

Originally Posted by Beerdog80

Place a call to your local bar association and see who had the highest degree of success in your area in dealing with cases involving your situation.

That's a good idea in that they probably have an attorney referral service. However, I don't think they'll recommend one, beyond giving some names which may be good enough, based on any results for lots of reasons. From there you can meet with them and see if they'd take the case on terms you can live with. If collection seems like it will be difficult, then it will be hard to convince them that a contingency fee is worth it, but who knows??

Googling one may not be a bad idea. A tiny firm (1-4) lawyers that has an awesome website probably means there is an attorney there who is a techno-geek, and might get into your case and have the ability to comprehend it. That doesn't mean the lawyer would be good at trial, but at least they might be up on the technology involved.

[kernelofwisdom]

Another point: many states have a cause of action frequently termed some version of Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices. Filing under this statute (and you can still file under any other cause) usually allows for amplified damages and attorneys' fees. For example, in NC, the statute provides for three times damages and attorneys' fees. That makes your case a 60G case. Might motivate the guy to come up with initial loss, if he's facing a judgment like that. Of course, you'd have other causes, like fraud, etc. Anyway, be sure to ask the local attorney about this.

[Texas07R8]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

Hello Jimmy. I'm new here and i'm in Honduras, the Mahogany wood land!!!

Your problem has me thinking a lot of my buying habits on ebay and I'll be more careful on my next guitar purchase, because i feel I'm getting a little bit too confident and my luck could change any time. And i see now that Ebay will not respond as they promise with this kind of problems.

Hope this sad episode come to a happy ending for you.

Nicolas.

+1 for sure. Well said Nicolas!
I feel the same way and I'm rethinking some of my past purchases and sales on ebay. How easy would it have been for something to go painfully wrong.

Jimmy, if it's an consolation to you and I hope it is, this thread will stand as a testament of what CAN and DOES go wrong sometimes. Perhaps we'll all take pause from now on and think a little more, be a little more cautious, ask a few more questions and play smarter.

So even though you've for now lost BIG, you can take some solace in the fact that your experience will probably save many fold future buyers the agony and asset risk you've just experienced.

My heart goes out to you buddy. I too have been scammed several years ago on ebay, I was purchasing rare silver and gold coins. I paid out of my checking account about $600 for a 1908 $20 gold piece (St. Gaudens for those of you who know this coin). Never got it but I started getting some email from about 20 other people he had "Sold" rare gold coins to about the same time asking if I had got me stuff from the guy, we realized he had ripped off dozens all at once. I did not get my money back that time. Another time, rare coins again and this time I had credit card and paypal on my/our side and we got our money back and the guy went to prison. He was in the States though. So I feel your pain Jimmy and I hope you get some form of justice.

I think my approach would be to try to get liability from the mule and bug the hell out of ebay as I feel they have some culpability here with the account fiasco, forget the international spy chase, it ain't happening. I'd get the cops, mail fraud boys-Postal inspectors and FBI, State Department, etc. involved.

I would target to get your money back and maybe someone else is liable to you and you get some or all your money back and then the fight goes on to the next guy up the chain. Ebay should know who hacked the account and how it was hacked and they should have warned someone that it had occurred.

[River]

Originally Posted by Texas07R8

So even though you've for now lost BIG, you can take some solace in the fact that your experience will probably save many fold future buyers the agony and asset risk you've just experienced.

Ebay should know who hacked the account and how it was hacked and they should have warned someone that it had occurred.

RTFO for both of these points. But in spades for the latter. eBay is coasting along as if they can't afford the reverse hackers it takes to identify, broadcast, and STOP this shit. That's horseshit. In this economy, I was able to hire one with a one-week listing on Craigslist.

HMPH