2 Volumes, a master tone and a Varitone walk in to a bar...

[Maestro and the Muse]

I've seen this covered once, maybe twice, a year or two ago, but never really in depth. The preliminary question, which I find few people ask:

1. Do you use both your tone knobs together, much, if at all? (that is, on the middle position.)

If the answer is no, or never, then why haven't more people tried Varitones in their Les Pauls? I bought a Big D varitone for my Epi Les Paul (Big Ds are all I ever use... I've got 4 to date), and I've never been happier. The switch is so useful for jazz, and for mellowing out the treble pickup if it's too shrill (position 2 just rolls off a touch of high-end). Not only that, but I find it cuts noise when throwing on heavy gain for a face-melting solo.

I personally like the master tone/varitone set up for the reason that it's like I have a coarse and a fine tone filter. I often use them together.

Currently, I've got varitones in:
1. Ezra, my MIK Epi Les Paul
2. Gillian, my '08 Gibson Les Paul Faded
3. Fiona, the Fender USA Deluxe with Texas Specials
4. Liesl, my custom P/J bass.

So the next question is:

2. Has anyone thought to giving them a try? They're easy to install -1 wire to ground, 1 wire to the tip of the output jack.

This may sound like a sell, and perhaps it is -I'd just like to see more varitones in more Les Pauls because I think they're indispensable.

Maestro

[dynabite]

I use both my tones thanks, in stereo

[Xavier_32]

Yeah, I'm sure some guys can't imagine not having a page wiring harness for coil splitting, in phase/out of phase, and series/parallel and would say that the tonal options it provides are 'indispensable;' but some of us don't really need all those options readily available on 27 push pull flippy-dially micro-whatsits.

I'm fine with a three way selector, two tones, and two volumes.

[Maestro and the Muse]

Originally Posted by Xavier_32

Yeah, I'm sure some guys can't imagine not having a page wiring harness for coil splitting, in phase/out of phase, and series/parallel and would say that the tonal options it provides are 'indispensable;' but some of us don't really need all those options readily available on 27 push pull flippy-dially micro-whatsits.

I'm fine with a three way selector, two tones, and two volumes.

I agree with you about the so-many-switches-buttons-and-knobs-that-I-don't-remember-what-they-do modders. I don't tend to do that. I subbed out a tone knob to avoid drilling a hole into my guitar, as I never find it necessary to go that far. I found the varitone a nice touch for those who like the sound of the ES-355s but find them too bulky, or dislike them for one reason or another aesthetically or physically.

The main reasons I first put a varitone in my Epi LPC were for more of "Lucille" sound (without buying one), and because frankly, I could never remember exactly where the sweet spot was on my tone knob!

Maestro

[Raz59]

Originally Posted by Maestro and the Muse

I agree with you about the so-many-switches-buttons-and-knobs-that-I-don't-remember-what-they-do modders. I don't tend to do that. I subbed out a tone knob to avoid drilling a hole into my guitar, as I never find it necessary to go that far. I found the varitone a nice touch for those who like the sound of the ES-355s but find them too bulky, or dislike them for one reason or another aesthetically or physically.

The main reasons I first put a varitone in my Epi LPC were for more of "Lucille" sound (without buying one), and because frankly, I could never remember exactly where the sweet spot was on my tone knob!

Maestro

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only thing the varitone switch does is switch capacitors, right? If that's all it does, then the "Lucille" sound you're fond of is in a particular capacitor...right?

If all you want is a sound of a normal 0.22 mF capacitor and some other weird value 0.78BOB mF cap, you can install a push/pull pot and switch between only two caps with the added benefit of a volume/tone control.

[Exluthier]

Snagged this off of the Big D website. I used to have an old 345, and I do miss the varitone switch. I find it much more useful than the regular tone controls, which I never touch.

My switches are usually made with capacitors that follow this range. It varies depending on the manufacturer, but tries to follow the same incremental change:

* C1 = .001 micro farads
* C2 = .01 mf
* C3 = .022 mf
* C4 = .047 mf
* C5 = .22 mf

About format:

My switch works in this format:

* Position 1 = Bypass - True bypass switch is pulled from the system, will not ruin your original tone!
* Position 2 = C1 - softer than bypass
* Position 3 = C2 - deeper tone than bypass, better response
* Position 4 = C3 - jazz box full
* Position 5 = C4 - jazz box mellow
* Position 6 = C5 -almost woman-ish tone

Personally I'd probably really enjoy a LP with the 3way moved down to the control cavity, 2 independent volumes, and a varitone for tone. Yeah, I like it.

[Maestro and the Muse]

Originally Posted by Raz59

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only thing the varitone switch does is switch capacitors, right? If that's all it does, then the "Lucille" sound you're fond of is in a particular capacitor...right?

If all you want is a sound of a normal 0.22 mF capacitor and some other weird value 0.78BOB mF cap, you can install a push/pull pot and switch between only two caps with the added benefit of a volume/tone control.

That's fair. But while it was the reason I bought it originally, I figured there was more to the other different capacitors that I might like, so I went with it. It was $40 when I bought it, and the install didn't take much time at all. I found that all the positions had their particular uses, and it's an easy switch between songs on stage for me. It's a strange personal inspiration thing for me, too. With a switch, I lock in to a sound, and can get inspired by it to write something in that style, while with a tone knob, I rarely just cycle through the continuous dial find something inspiring. There is a term for this and I can't quite think of it right now... something to do with the inability of humans towards ordering of near-alternatives. That is, you're indifferent to the sound your guitar makes with your tone knob going from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3, or 3 to 4, but you know the difference between 1 and 4.

On that note, in my Epi, I did go all out and use the master tone as push/pull for coil tap, but that's because it's my MIK, and I wanted to experiment.

Exluthier,

That sounds like an interesting way to do it! I don't know what you'd do with the 3-way switch hole up by the neck though... The Big Ds are great. I love what it does for my P-bass, especially since I have the stacked 250K/1M tone pot that opens it up some, and then brings it down a 'notch'.

I'm a huge fan of switches over dials.

[Exluthier]

Oh I've been kicking around the idea of having one of the gents on here whip me up a Custom body that just doesn't have a hole for the toggle. Or you could maybe put something in the hole like the jewel from a fender amp or something I guess.

[Maestro and the Muse]

Originally Posted by Exluthier

Snagged this off of the Big D website. I used to have an old 345, and I do miss the varitone switch. I find it much more useful than the regular tone controls, which I never touch.

My switches are usually made with capacitors that follow this range. It varies depending on the manufacturer, but tries to follow the same incremental change:

* C1 = .001 micro farads
* C2 = .01 mf
* C3 = .022 mf
* C4 = .047 mf
* C5 = .22 mf

About format:

My switch works in this format:

* Position 1 = Bypass - True bypass switch is pulled from the system, will not ruin your original tone!
* Position 2 = C1 - softer than bypass
* Position 3 = C2 - deeper tone than bypass, better response
* Position 4 = C3 - jazz box full
* Position 5 = C4 - jazz box mellow
* Position 6 = C5 -almost woman-ish tone

Personally I'd probably really enjoy a LP with the 3way moved down to the control cavity, 2 independent volumes, and a varitone for tone. Yeah, I like it.

Funny, my first Big D I bought used off of some guy, and it turned out that it was custom done out of order... that is, instead of C1-C5, it was bypass, C3-5,C2,C1. Interesting combination, but since I use C1 sparingly, it's fine to have it all the way out there at position 6.

I didn't really realize it was like this until I installed my second one, ordered from Derek personally.

[Raz59]

Originally Posted by Maestro and the Muse

That's fair. But while it was the reason I bought it originally, I figured there was more to the other different capacitors that I might like, so I went with it. It was $40 when I bought it, and the install didn't take much time at all. I found that all the positions had their particular uses, and it's an easy switch between songs on stage for me. It's a strange personal inspiration thing for me, too. With a switch, I lock in to a sound, and can get inspired by it to write something in that style, while with a tone knob, I rarely just cycle through the continuous dial find something inspiring. There is a term for this and I can't quite think of it right now... something to do with the inability of humans towards ordering of near-alternatives. That is, you're indifferent to the sound your guitar makes with your tone knob going from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3, or 3 to 4, but you know the difference between 1 and 4.

On that note, in my Epi, I did go all out and use the master tone as push/pull for coil tap, but that's because it's my MIK, and I wanted to experiment

I see your point. With the Varitone, you turn the switch and it's instant gratification...

[Maestro and the Muse]

Originally Posted by Raz59

I see your point. With the Varitone, you turn the switch and it's instant gratification...

That's essentially what it is (though that kind of word choice is tinged with insult...)

[Raz59]

Originally Posted by Maestro and the Muse

That's essentially what it is (though that kind of word choice is tinged with insult...)

Don't take me wrong. There was no sarcasm or any kind of insult on the word choice, I'm sorry if I made you think that way.

Off-topic: This whole talk about the varitone has given me an idea for when I install a push-pull to split humbuckers - when it splits the humbuckers, it'll also use a lower value cap, inspiration by the varitone switch.

[jon1]

If I had a Page harness in my LP, I honestly wouldnt know what to do with the different sounds. I do use all of my controls quite a bit.

[Exluthier]

I had the Page wiring in a LP once and I was the same way I didn't really didn't use it. However on the 345 I had I used the varitone quite a bit, it probably just had to do with only having to click the switch once or twice to hit a specific tone instead of pulling this pot and that pot and so on.

[Maestro and the Muse]

I've never had the inkling to go for the full Jimmy Page wiring. The In/out of phase never really appealed to me. Having the push/pull to coil tap is kind of cool -I haven't used it all that much, save for when I didn't want to put down my Epi LPC to pick up my strat.

I suppose I never made clear that I rarely use any of the knobs on my LP, and that the varitone finally gave me something to use. That is, I never really touch volume or tone knobs.

[vortexx]

Here are some other interesting varitone switches. These seem to have more variety midscooping and such).

Rothstein Guitars • Serious Tone for the Serious Player

[dspelman]

The stock LP quad has never made all that much sense to me, and I *do* like to have a few options. But I'm also not above drilling a hole or three into an LP to install some miniswitches. I've got one LP with an active preamp (the pickups are standard LP passive pickups) that gives you a master volume, master bass (15 dB boost and cut), master treble (15 dB boost and cut) and a blend knob. Still four knobs, but much more useful. Two miniswitches are coil taps for the humbuckers and the third miniswitch is a phase switch (for when both pickups are selected).

[egerryiii]

Hello!

I've looked for, and attempted to adapt a wiring harness for just this setup. Could someone point me in the direction of a diagram?

Thanks!

[JonMan94]

i only use the tone for one thing: at 10, so my tone is nice and crunchy, even in milk...