HELP...How to install grover rotomatics properly.

[billy]

How do you install grover rotomatic tuners........

[Roman Rist]

They should just drop in on most les Pauls unless they have klusons.
If you have klusons, you then have to ream ( NOT DRILL) the tuner holes.

[djd100]

Why is this (ream vs drill)?

What size?



Thanks...

Originally Posted by RFR

They should just drop in on most les Pauls unless they have klusons.
If you have klusons, you then have to ream ( NOT DRILL) the tuner holes.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by djd100

Why is this (ream vs drill)?

Thanks...

If you drill, you are almost certain to crack your headstock!

I am not joking, I have seen it too many times.
go to the hardware store and buy a Taper reamer and turn in a clockward fashion till the hole is the right size. It may cost you 10 bucks or so but that is cheap insurance and costs less than having a repair guy install them for you.

cheers
Roman

[lp59aholicDon]

THe BEST advice you could ever get for free ! Keep Drills with bits away from your guitar !

Originally Posted by RFR

If you drill, you are almost certain to crack your headstock!

I am not joking, I have seen it too many times.
go to the hardware store and buy a Taper reamer and turn in a clockward fashion till the hole is the right size. It may cost you 10 bucks or so but that is cheap insurance and costs less than having a repair guy install them for you.

cheers
Roman

[djd100]

Got it, thanks all...

[wackocrash5150]

I've got a question to add to this if I may.

Do the screw holes for the Grovers (the bottom ones as the stock Klusons have 2 screws per tuner) line up? I'm considering some 106C's.

[Mr Bones]

Trust me on that crack the headstock part, unless you have a drill press, it's almost a sure thing.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by RFR

If you drill, you are almost certain to crack your headstock!

I am not joking, I have seen it too many times.
go to the hardware store and buy a Taper reamer and turn in a clockward fashion till the hole is the right size. It may cost you 10 bucks or so but that is cheap insurance and costs less than having a repair guy install them for you.

cheers
Roman

Let me clarify some things so there is no misunderstanding.

REAM not Drill the Tuner shaft hole to enlarge them for grovers.

If you have kluson look-a- likes, the ones that have a nut and washer instead of a press in bushing, you can omit the reaming step. ( the hole is already the same size)

The bottom screw hole for the grovers should match up to the kluson hole.

Drill the top tuner screw hole ( mark the drill bit with some tape wrapped around it to the length of the screw)

Install tuner

[El Toro]

The best way is to send it to Roman. You'll hate yourself if you blow it.

[wackocrash5150]

Originally Posted by RFR

The bottom screw hole for the grovers should match up to the kluson hole.

That is exactly the answer I was looking and hoping for. Any recomendations on filling the top holes of each tuner? Asthetics only, nothing permanent on the 0.001 % chance I need to sell this thing and buy a kidney for one of my kids, I can return it to original. I was thinking of raiding my kids crayon box. Thoughts?

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by wackocrash5150

That is exactly the answer I was looking and hoping for. Any recomendations on filling the top holes of each tuner? Asthetics only, nothing permanent on the 0.001 % chance I need to sell this thing and buy a kidney for one of my kids, I can return it to original. I was thinking of raiding my kids crayon box. Thoughts?

Minwax
it comes in different colors to match

[wackocrash5150]

AWSOME!!!

I love this forum already. Thanks all !

[ArchEtech]

I think the hardest part is getting the washer out if you have the thin saft type of Klussen. That grommet washer thing is a real PITA to remove before reaming out the hole.

[captain tightpants]

Originally Posted by ArchEtech

I think the hardest part is getting the washer out if you have the thin saft type of Klussen. That grommet washer thing is a real PITA to remove before reaming out the hole.

Take a drill bit that is slightly smaller than the hole, turn it backwards and lightly tap out the bushing. Best to use an old one, you'll probably ruin the point, unless you have a plastic faced hammer.

[Roman Rist]

I just wiggle a phillips head screw driver in the bushing, it comes right out nice and clean.

[ISOgoldtone]

How can I tell if I have Kluson look-a-likes or the real thing?? I just bought a 2004 Les Paul Standard Limited Edition, and it has the little round nickel buttons on the end, 2 screws on the machines going into the back of the headstock, and "Gibson Deluxe" on each machine. The reason I ask is because I really wouldn't consider reaming the holes in my headstock, but may try out some Grover Locking Rotomatics sometime in the future. If they're a perfect swap then I have no worries!

I also noticed that on the Grover site, the locking rotomatics only come in gold, black chrome, and chrome. All of the hardware on my guitar is nickel. Would it look bad to have chrome tuning machines on an otherwise all nickel equipped guitar?? There doesn't seem to be a WHOLE lot of difference in the look of chrome vs. nickel, but I haven't seen them side by side either.

The whole reason I'm thinking about swapping the tuners out is because:

A) I LOVE locking tuners in general
B) The Grovers are pretty spiffy!
C) I want a higher gear ratio tuner (the ones on mine don't seem to be!)

I've had some issues with keeping my new axe in tune, but from other posts that I've read, it seems to be an issue with the nut/saddles. I'm going to try the sandpaper trick that Roman suggested and may buy some GHS Graphitall lubricant for the nut and saddles. Anyhow......here are some pics of my guitar:

[ISOgoldtone]

Any thoughts guys??

[barchiola]

Folks,
Thanks for the info so far but here's another question or two.
A friend of mine gave me a 74 Les Paul with a cracked headstock. I glued the head back together and fit a couple of splines into the head but now I"m shopping for tuner heads.
It seems the standard is 10mm holes but I'd swear mine are 23/64. The Grover website lists a 23/64 tuner head but I can't find them for sale anywhere. I may just call Grover tomorrow to see what they have to say about it but thought someone here could shed some light on it.
Thanks,
Bart in NJ

i spent some more time researching this last night and figured out how the grover hole sizes work with their different tuner heads. with the 102 tuner, they only fit a 10 mm hole so you have to ream like you guys were saying or find a different tuner head. i thought the 102 might come in different sizes to fit different sized holes.
thanks.

[kom75]

Hey,

I bought some locking rotomatics from Grover (106G), and I have the same "Gibson deluxe" on my stock tuners. The hole seems to be the right size, but the screw hole does not drop in directly. That's for the info...

Now I'm wondering if the screw hole on the 102G would drop in directly...

Thanks

[Udonitron]

I just bought the 102CS Rotomatics to replace the ones on my Burny with. The odd thing is, the tuners are not 1-6 but rather they gave me two #1's, two #4's, one #2, and one #3?! My Burny had the Kluson's at one time but were swapped out for Rotomatic replicas which are hooped. My Grover's are identical with the hole at the 6 o'clock position but the holes on the guitar do not line up with the Grover's...well they do BUT the Grover's are all lopsided as a result. Now I know the numbers are there to place #1 at the low E etc until # 6 is the high E but do you think the numbers have more significance relating to slight offsets to assure they line up on a 3x3 set up? If so Grover messed up giving me doubles etc The replicas look identical but they are not cockeyed at all on the guitar...there Grover satin chromes are big time. Any ideas? Thanks guys

[Udonitron]

Aw man..the existing holes won't work...the original Kluson's were installed slightly lopsided at the factory so I will have to fill the holes and drill new ones so that the tuners are straight and equidistant although the guy on the drill press at Fujigen was sleeping as the holes on the right side of the headstock are in towards the middle more so than the left side. Thus the tuners stick out further on one side vs. the other...I am so smart, SMRT argh!

[bfcg]

That is so weird, any self respecting guitar factory would use a pin locator to drill tuner holes.
If they drilled undersized holes and then hand reamed, that could explain some variation. Hand reaming could cause the reamer to go slightly off center.

[Udonitron]

Agreed...I am sure that is what happened as the guitar originally came with the classic Kluson type tuners and then the previous owner put Gotoh Rotomatic copies on there so it was reamed for sure (bare wood in the pin holes). I suppose there is not much I can do regarding the pin holes but the screw holes will have to be drilled to make sure the tuners are straight down the right side of the head. They are all off kilter due to the pin holes being routed inward and thus the existing screw holes will not work Left side is straight however...

[Loserface300]

could you use a dremel and CAREFULLY partly ream the holes and then screw them in....

[JM Vasek]

Originally Posted by Loserface300

could you use a dremel and CAREFULLY partly ream the holes and then screw them in....

This = BAD IDEA.

DO NOT USE A DREMEL.

[Loserface300]

i meant a dremel at low torque with the correct drill bit attached... very low torque...

[JM Vasek]

Originally Posted by Loserface300

i meant a dremel at low torque with the correct drill bit attached... very low torque...

And I mean it's a bad idea. You'll get uneven tuner holes and jack up a nice guitar.


Just listen to ROMAN. I think he may know what he's talking about.

[Udonitron]

Yeah I think I will just go back to the old Kluson style but I might need conversion bushings. Shitty thing is those are going to push the tuners over to center more, since the holes are now off, and thus misalign my original upper and lower screw holes. I will get the Wilkinson EZ Lok's with a 10mm bushing and maybe add some tape to one side of the bushing to offset the more center reamed hole I suppose.

[JM Vasek]

Originally Posted by Udonitron

Yeah I think I will just go back to the old Kluson style but I might need conversion bushings. Shitty thing is those are going to push the tuners over to center more, since the holes are now off, and thus misalign my original upper and lower screw holes. I will get the Wilkinson EZ Lok's with a 10mm bushing and maybe add some tape to one side of the bushing to offset the more center reamed hole I suppose.

Check these out - Kluson / Waverly Conversion Bushings - Nickel Hex