First Kit Build: Bulldog Flame LP

[Robbie]

I just got a Bulldog body kit and am now trying to absorb the details of a '59 burst to try and duplicate it as closely as possible.

I ordered some LP plans from eBay (Item number: 150350211669)...haven't a clue as to how accurate. After I ordered I found this forum and a link to Stew Mac's LP plans. These may be a ripoff.

The kit's specs:

Maple Arch Top w/Flame Veneer
Single Layer of Cream Binding around Body
Mahogany Back
Mahogany Set-In Neck
***NEW*** Long Neck Tenon
***NEW*** Ebony Headstock Overlay
22 Fret Rosewood Fingerboard with Cream Neck Binding
Crown Inlays
24-3/4 Scale Length
Adjustable Truss Rod
Routered for 2 Humbuckers
Nut Size: 1-11/16
Neck: C Shape
Weight: Roughly 6.50 lbs

My Initial Thoughts:

1) Is headstock the right size/shape? My eyes say too big.
2) How to align neck and angle before gluing?
3) Neck joint needs some tweaking, but I found Ex Nihilo's 2nd build and he demonstrates a cool trick.
4) I need to figure out measurements or get template to drill bridge/tailpiece stud holes. Shouldn't string alignment with neck and PUP pole pieces be factored in?
5) I can't afford the OTPG M69s or other aged parts. I will need to find off the shelf replicas that I can age.
6) How did Gibson do sunburst in 1959? Rubbed or sprayed? I was sure I was going to rub the dye until I saw Ex Nihilo's spray job.
6) The tenon does not seat flat but one edge is high? Warped or just in need of a router.
7) Don't real '59s have tenons with clipped corners?
8) Headstock is separate piece of wood joined with scarph joint. How to hide?
9) Should bottom of rosewood fret board sit on body or on binding? The binding on mine is wider than rosewood from joint to end of 22nd fret.
10) Side positions markets are black. I can't tell if they are inlaid or just a divot filled with paint.

Any help or comments appreciated. Photos to come of joints and routing.
Robbie

[Bellows1]

I purchased the same plans...I don't think they are accurate or complete.

Good luck with the build.

[Ole'Lefty]

Catto drawing #10 and StewMac. There are some things you just can't cheap on. O'L

[Throwing7]

Congrats on getting the kit. I'm about to purchase one myself.

Sinister detailed his kit pretty well already, so that should help you out a little.
Just ordered one of these.

The kit will probably not bring you to the level of a 59, simply because that's not its purpose.

Take this kit and have fun with it. Experiment if you wish, but most of all this looks like an amazing first step towards "really" building a truly great guitar. I've never built a guitar before, so I am getting one of these kits so I can have a taste of what it's about before I try to dive in headfirst with the time and expense of building an Ex-Nihilo level build......because damn that guitar was nice, and I won't fool myself into thinking I have that kind of skill.

So anyway, have fun with the kit, and don't let it eat you up. If it turns out not to your liking....you can always strip the parts and buy another kit.

[Robbie]

Thanks Throwing7...I checked out Sinister's build. Very helpful! There are a few peculiarities I need to suss out such as how the fretboard joins the body. Hopefully my photos will fill in the gaps in Sinister's thread.

I hope you'll post your progress with your kit either here or on your own thread.

[Sinster]

Robbie for you cavity plates make sure you get the ones that fit USA Gibson.. The ones for Epiphone and all imports will not fit.

[Robbie]

Thanks, Sinster...good tip.

I ordered a set of Kluson SD90SLN tuners off of eBay. I hope they fit! I engaged in a bit of post-purchase consumer behavior after ordering and found on the forum that the older issue is metric and the newer ones are SAE (inches). The bushings on these are 9mm and post diameters 6mm. I should have looked harder for my calipers before ordering.

I ordered plans from StewMac and Old Lefty. I also got the Gotoh 5851 nickel aluminum tailpiece and the 4566 ABR01 bridge from StewMac.

With these parts I hope to check how the neck fits in the pocket before gluing (as well as drill holes for these parts).

Also ordered some books...BOTB, Guitar Finishing Book, Building Electric Guitars (Koch), and Guitar Player Repair Guide (Yes, I am a total geek).

I have Fralins, Antiquities, etc. in my other guitars. For the time being, I'm going to have to find some decent pickups on the cheap .

[Bellows1]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thanks, Sinster...good tip.

I ordered a set of Kluson SD90SLN tuners off of eBay. I hope they fit! I engaged in a bit of post-purchase consumer behavior after ordering and found on the forum that the older issue is metric and the newer ones are SAE (inches). The bushings on these are 9mm and post diameters 6mm. I should have looked harder for my calipers before ordering.

I ordered plans from StewMac and Old Lefty. I also got the Gotoh 5851 nickel aluminum tailpiece and the 4566 ABR01 bridge from StewMac.

With these parts I hope to check how the neck fits in the pocket before gluing (as well as drill holes for these parts).

Also ordered some books...BOTB, Guitar Finishing Book, Building Electric Guitars (Koch), and Guitar Player Repair Guide (Yes, I am a total geek).

I have Fralins, Antiquities, etc. in my other guitars. For the time being, I'm going to have to find some decent pickups on the cheap .

Robbie, these are said to be very good for the money. Very good prices on hardware also.

GFS Pickups

[Robbie]

Thanks, Bellows1...I ran across those and wondered whether they could "sing the [Les Paul] body electric," to bastardize Walt Whitman. I'll suss them out.

[Texas07R8]

I just ordered a kit from Bulldog myself. I went to the website and got free shipping, if you buy it on ebay it'll cost you $20 more for shipping.

I have seen some nice builds of this kit. Haven't seen any bad ones but I suppose if there were some bad ones they probably didn't post it on the net..

Anyway, I'm seriously considering a Dakota Red top and depending on the back body (I know it's 3 pieces) if the seams are close like a few I've seen I may do a dark back finish, if the seams and grain look bad on the back of the body I may just shoot the whole guitar in opaque Dakota Red.

Depending on what the flame top looks like I may try to do an aged burst. What I'd want is amber yellow with a hint of reddish brown around the upper bout fading out near the waist with virtually no edge darkening on the lower bout and bottom. Kinda like Pearly or a Page type fade. If I go that route I plan to darken under the poker chip and pickguard to give it artificial fading/no-fading areas like a real one would have. It doesn't seem very difficult to make a mask for the ring and the pickguard and shoot it with some more color to darken it.

I was going through my nitro inventory and found I have a spray can of black for the headstock, a spray can of clear and a spray can of transparent cherry (Gibson SG) red.

After seeing that can I didn't need on my last SG refinish I am considering shooting the back in that darker Gibson Heritage Cherry, it's got a great color and really shows the grain of mahogany. Then after thinking about that I wondered what the flame top would look like sprayed with transparent red. I bet it'd look pretty good...

So, I haven't made up my mind at all on how to finish this one. I guess when it arrives Monday I can start to get an idea of where to go with the color scheme. The only thing that bugs me is I've only got one shot at doing something transparent with the veneer flame top. If I do an amber burst of sorts and it looks like crap I really don't have enough wood underneath to sand it down and do a color change. I guess if I try a transparent top scheme and it doesn't look good I can sand it out, not worrying if the flame veneer gets yucked up, just paint opaque Dakota red over it.

I wonder how a vintage amber would look across the top with a burst edge of Gibson cherry?

I've got a bunch of parts for this project, all I need is a pickguard, pickup switch, jack, tuners (I'm going with nickel Grovers 18:1), TRC and a stop tail piece and I ordered them last night. I'm going to put my set of double cream WB VTP PAF's in it with Historic rings, etc. I've got a wired ABR from my Historic that got an aged wireless ABR upgrade a while back, some vintage knobs & pointers, poker chip and jackplate plastic.

[Throwing7]

Sounds like a great plan you've got there Texas.

I am planning one of these kits as well, just have to sell of another guitar to fund it. I'm looking to do a Wine Red finish, but right now having a hard time finding a premade wine red.

I am also in Dallas, so maybe when yours is well on it's way I can have a look at it myself to see just how much better yours will likely be than mine (this build will be my first).

[Texas07R8]

Originally Posted by Throwing7

Sounds like a great plan you've got there Texas.

I am planning one of these kits as well, just have to sell of another guitar to fund it. I'm looking to do a Wine Red finish, but right now having a hard time finding a premade wine red.

I am also in Dallas, so maybe when yours is well on it's way I can have a look at it myself to see just how much better yours will likely be than mine (this build will be my first).

Sounds like a plan. Mine is supposed to be here Monday. I've been slow with my work the last two weeks and as soon as I get a project it seems like I'm getting busy again. So I don't know how fast it's going to go. I won't rush it as I really do want to make this a nice one, just gotta figure out how to paint it and get busy.

There's some good info over at guitar reranch website/forum about painting, building, finishing, etc. worth checking out if you're doing your first one. This is my first project kit guitar but I've refinished a few in my day so I'm not too concerned about the finish process other than the headache that is grain filling.. one thing I plan to double check is the neck angle when I join the neck and body. I don't want my bridge thumbscrews that run down to the top to get the action low enough, gotta make sure there's enough angle to keep that bridge up an 1/8" or so off the top.

[SiriusAbbott]

The only thing that bugs me is I've only got one shot at doing something transparent with the veneer flame top. If I do an amber burst of sorts and it looks like crap I really don't have enough wood underneath to sand it down and do a color change. I guess if I try a transparent top scheme and it doesn't look good I can sand it out, not worrying if the flame veneer gets yucked up, just paint opaque Dakota red over it.

since you are doing this over a thin veneer,a small suggestion.....
grainfill,level fine sand,then shoot a sealant like "Fullerplast" over the body and neck,fine sanding every 2-3 coats,then shoot your lacquer 'burst or whatever onto the sealed body....if it fails(runs,etc),you can easily sand back to the sealer,no veneer worries

[Texas07R8]

The day after I orderd my flametop veneer kit they announce the new kits with a solid maple flametop and one piece neck.

Well, I just ordered one today, my first kit, the veneered flametop with the 3 piece neck should arrive this afternoon around 6:00 PM.

I have the option to send it back and get a credit minus shipping or keep it and maybe build a Les Paul for my grandson who is 12. Right now we're refinishing his black Strat to a Daphne Blue (powder blue) and a brown tortoise pickguard, looking real good so far.

But for me, I just can't wait to get the solid flametop in by Friday I hope. I want to do a burst top but I've never done one before and was frankly a little nervous about the veneer top as I probably wouldn't be able to redo a booboo unless I cover it in a solid color as I'd have to sand down the veneer to nothing to get rid of a problem spray.

My hope is I can take the solid flametop and try my hand at making a nice looking burst and if I screw up at least I should be able to sand it down enough to fix something that doesn't look right. Also, I am happy about the one piece neck offered on the solid flame top. The back looks like one piece but I really can't tell for sure from the smallish pics on his website.

Hey Throwing7, if you are serious about buying one then you should come take a look at the kits. Looks like I'll have this veneer kit for at least a day or so. If I decide not to keep the veneered flametop I'll offer you first dibs on it as you're local and I won't have to ship it to Jay or sell it to someone else.

Here's the top I just ordered, it's this one, not one "like it":

This is the top, looks like a nice curly flame and some mineral streaks in it too!



Here's the back of the guitar I ordered, I swear it looks like a single piece but I doubt it is:



I specifically asked if the guitar he was sending me was the one pictured on the website, he assured me it is the same one. He further stated that with the solid flametops the photos posted will be of the guitar you order. AS soon as it sells he's changing the pic to the next available body so if you see something you like you better snag it while it's on the website because if it sells it's gone and the next one may not be what you want.

I double checked after sending him some more funds for the solid top and sure'nuff, he's already changed the pictures out on his website for the solid flametop. So the one there now is available and it's what'cya get if you order it.

[Luke122]

Originally Posted by Texas07R8

Here's the back of the guitar I ordered, I swear it looks like a single piece but I doubt it is:

It looks pretty good, but I think I can just barely see the seam. On the right side, it's almost matched with the bottom edge of the neck.. it looks great though, so why even sweat it?

I'm subscribing to this build.. I've been looking for a decent kit for a decent price, and this one looks pretty good so far.

[Throwing7]

Originally Posted by Texas07R8

Hey Throwing7, if you are serious about buying one then you should come take a look at the kits. Looks like I'll have this veneer kit for at least a day or so. If I decide not to keep the veneered flametop I'll offer you first dibs on it as you're local and I won't have to ship it to Jay or sell it to someone else.

Think I may just have to take you up on that. PM me your whereabouts and I will have to check it out.

If I take it, I'll need a long enough drive to come with a way to explain to my pregnant wife why I have brought home an incomplete guitar without first selling off a complete one in order to fund it.

But that will be my problem....not yours.

[Texas07R8]

Originally Posted by Throwing7

Think I may just have to take you up on that. PM me your whereabouts and I will have to check it out.

If I take it, I'll need a long enough drive to come with a way to explain to my pregnant wife why I have brought home an incomplete guitar without first selling off a complete one in order to fund it.

But that will be my problem....not yours.

I clicked on your name but you don't have PM enabled apparently. Fix your PM thing or PM or email me and we can go from there.

[Texas07R8]

So Robbie, when are you going to post some pics and info? We're anxious to see what you've come up with.

[SG Lou]

I like the "Updated" kits but I wish they would do away with the off-set tenon

[Texas07R8]

I agree, if they did that.... well it'd be DARN close.

[Kølabrennern]

These kits look so great, seems like a really nice platform for learning the basics of guitar construction. Hope Gibson won't go and take legal action against them, that would really be too bad, but I guess it's just a matter of time.

[Robbie]

Sorry for the delay, everyone.

I held off on gluing the neck as I was iffy on the fit and needed to verify that it was correct.

So, after buying and reading a lot of books I discovered that my neck tenon had twisted and the neck would not seat correctly in the pocket.

It wasn't minor enough to try to finesse so I emailed Jay at Bulldog and he was very quick to offer a replacement. After I read his email I visited his site and discovered his new kit with the maple cap and 1-piece neck. The control pocket even has the witness line. So, I emailed him again and he's going to send me the new kit for an upcharge.

I'm going to have to find a band saw as his new necks are correct for width and peg holes, but he no longer does the Gibson book scroll.

So, in the meantime I (among other things) took apart my tweed Pinceton clone and used Absolv to remove all the glue overspray. Still took a lot of scraping with a razor blade. I washed everything with a sponge/scotch brite pad and let it dry.

I'm now heading to the garage to rub it down with denatured alcohol and shellac. I'm planning on using some light amber shellac diluted 4:1. I'll sand the first coat down with a 320 sponge and then hit it again with the shellac (or maybe nitro).

I found an old logo plate in my collection that I'm going to attach. I also recreated the tube chart in a drawing program and will print that out on cotton paper and try to age it. I'm thinking tea for color, but I'll have to fix the toner somehow. I might have to do a test with two sheets...one fixed prior and the other after. I think I'll also exchange the .02 Orange Drops with vintage-type caps in the signal path.

[Texas07R8]

Originally Posted by Luke122

It looks pretty good, but I think I can just barely see the seam. On the right side, it's almost matched with the bottom edge of the neck.. it looks great though, so why even sweat it?

I'm subscribing to this build.. I've been looking for a decent kit for a decent price, and this one looks pretty good so far.

I have the kit in hand and the seam was not where I guessed it was, it's dead centered just like the top.

[dogbone94]

i want one of these bulldogs..... hows the craftmanship...?

[Sinster]

Originally Posted by dogbone94

i want one of these bulldogs..... hows the craftmanship...?

There was a few things that I wasn't happy with on mine.... but overall the craftsmanship is good.


Just ordered one of these.

[shtdaprdtr]

Originally Posted by Bellows1

Robbie, these are said to be very good for the money. Very good prices on hardware also.

GFS Pickups

The GFS are a great price but some reviewers complained they were too hot and muddy. since you have antiquities in your other ones..you seem to be more of a vintage guy...how about a set of duncan alnico pros..they go for 150 for the set.

[dogbone94]

Originally Posted by shtdaprdtr

you seem to be more of a vintage guy...

i love these... and i have tried all the major winders.... mine sustain forever....
HighOrderPickups.com
mine are 7.5k a5 in the neck and 8.5k a5 in the bridge

[Texas07R8]

here's my Bulldog solid maple flametop, I just finished painting the burst yesterday so there's no clear on it yet, I went with the Brockburst finish attempting to emulate the famous Brock/DaPra 59 burst.

[FF_Pedals]

Man, you're fast. I love the burst.

So you string it up, play it, and then buff in a month?

[Sinster]

We should setup a thread just dedicated to the bulldog kits.. so we can showcase them