Dye or stain suggestions for refinishing?

[markophonic]

I have a '08 standard faded with a tobacco burst finish that I'm going to refinish.

It has a nicely figured top but a crap finish.

I'm thinking I would like a nice amber type finish, or something like a faded lemonburst.

I've been reading about wiping stains and dyes on to really accentuate the grain. I've read about spraying...

I like the color that is currently in the center of the burst...the yellow/amber.

any suggestions as to what color/brand etc. to use?

I think I would prefer to wipe on the color coat and spray the clear coats. I'll probably just use some spray bomb clear from reranch or stew-mac.

I'm only refinishing the top....everything else is staying the same.

I'd like to get a nice finish on it...but it's obviously not a show piece its a player.

This is the Top that I want to Refin.

[DRF]

I dont have any advice on staining technique,I will say that is a really nice color as is. I also will say that top looks like maybe a 1a or 2a and doesn't warrant worrying about trying to get a McNaught lookin flame.Maybe its the angle of the pic?but if you insist on doing it make sure you do some tests.

[shtdaprdtr]

try rubbing a little water or lemon oil (youre gonna have to clean the lemon oil off later) on top to see what it would look like with clear...sometimes a clearcoat really brings out colors and depth...I tried it on mine and it really brought it to life.

[markophonic]

I've already polished it with virtuoso...the figuring already pops out nicely...its the dark part of the "burst" I don't care for. It was applied badly. I have another Standard Faded, one of Larry Corsa's Peter Green modded ones also in a tobacco burst that looks fine.

I want to start from scratch with the finish on the top.

The good folks at RS Guitarworks gave me a quote to do it that sounds good...I would just have to be without the guitar for about 3 months. I'm just kinda trying to decide if I want to ship it out or do it myself...It would be a nice winter project for me.

[lp_junkie]

whats wrong with that finish it's very cool I would just wet sand and clear coat.

But if a refin is in the cards for you then look at Dave Johnson as well as Historic Makeover, get it redone as a 59 faded iced tea burst if you are gonna do it at all.

[markophonic]

Originally Posted by lp_junkie

whats wrong with that finish it's very cool I would just wet sand and clear coat.

But if a refin is in the cards for you then look at Dave Johnson as well as Historic Makeover, get it redone as a 59 faded iced tea burst if you are gonna do it at all.

I'm familiar with Historic Makeover but I'm not familar with Dave Johnson?

Can you provide any info on Dave?

[Iceman0124]

Vintage Restorations

[dretot]

Mark,
I stripped, stained and sprayed nitro on the top of my 04 G0. (hated the orangey burst)
It's pretty simple to do if you have some experience with painting guitars.
I had done a few strats using reranch aerosols, so doing an lp just requires some attention when stipping not to mess up the binding.
I used stew-macs vintage amber stain and reranch clear gloss nitro.
I didn't buff mine out completely, left it a little dull. Might still buff it up a little.




Here's some sites if your interested:
ReRanch Guitar Refinishing
ColorTone Concentrated Liquid Stain at Stewart-MacDonald

finishing forum
The Guitar Refinishing and Restoration Forum :: Index

let me know if you need some advice,
dre

[markophonic]

Originally Posted by dretot

Mark,
I stripped, stained and sprayed nitro on the top of my 04 G0. (hated the orangey burst)
It's pretty simple to do if you have some experience with painting guitars.
I had done a few strats using reranch aerosols, so doing an lp just requires some attention when stipping not to mess up the binding.
I used stew-macs vintage amber stain and reranch clear gloss nitro.
I didn't buff mine out completely, left it a little dull. Might still buff it up a little.




Here's some sites if your interested:
ReRanch Guitar Refinishing
ColorTone Concentrated Liquid Stain at Stewart-MacDonald

finishing forum
The Guitar Refinishing and Restoration Forum :: Index

let me know if you need some advice,
dre

Dre,

Thanks! Thats the kind of info I'm looking for.

I've had my eye on the Stew-Mac Vintage Amber Dye and was wondering if that is something I might go with.

I've been wondering If I should rub on stain and shoot the clear or just spray color and clear....I was leaning towards using a rub on stain because I think I'd get better definition of the figuring....So I think I'm going to go the route you did as you've hit on what I want.

I've finished a few Telecasters and Stratocasters I've built and I've used the ReRanch stuff but I've never finished or refinished anything with binding.

Since I want to refin the top only should I mask off the binding and sides and take the finish all the way to the edge? and include the top portion of the binding that is on the "top" side when I spray the clear??

[dretot]

Mark,
I used water as my base for the stain, a fairly diluted mixture so I could rub in the amber slowly with multiple passes to achieve the color I wanted.
"Be sure to whisker the wood that is going to be stained by wetting it with a damp cloth (water) and then letting it dry.
Then sand off the whiskers that raise up with 400 grit.
You will need to do this three times at least. You will know when it is done because the grain will not raise anymore.
This helps prevent the grain from raising when staining and also helps the stain absorb more evenly."

Then, wipe down the top with a wet cloth right before you apply the stain. this helps the stain to spread evenly without becoming blotchy.

Be careful when sanding that tobacco off. I heard that Standard Faded's are a veneer top? Not sure if that's true, but you don't want to sand through.
Regarding the binding, I stained and sprayed the top portion of the binding, masking off the side of the binding.
A lot of people seem to think that the vintage amber is too yellow and they cut it with a drop or 2 of medium brown. I didn't, but I feel I could have gone a touch darker with my stain.
Anyway, take your time and make sure your happy before you clear coat.

good luck,
dre

[markophonic]

Originally Posted by dretot

Mark,
I used water as my base for the stain, a fairly diluted mixture so I could rub in the amber slowly with multiple passes to achieve the color I wanted.
"Be sure to whisker the wood that is going to be stained by wetting it with a damp cloth (water) and then letting it dry.
Then sand off the whiskers that raise up with 400 grit.
You will need to do this three times at least. You will know when it is done because the grain will not raise anymore.
This helps prevent the grain from raising when staining and also helps the stain absorb more evenly."

Then, wipe down the top with a wet cloth right before you apply the stain. this helps the stain to spread evenly without becoming blotchy.

Be careful when sanding that tobacco off. I heard that Standard Faded's are a veneer top? Not sure if that's true, but you don't want to sand through.
Regarding the binding, I stained and sprayed the top portion of the binding, masking off the side of the binding.
A lot of people seem to think that the vintage amber is too yellow and they cut it with a drop or 2 of medium brown. I didn't, but I feel I could have gone a touch darker with my stain.
Anyway, take your time and make sure your happy before you clear coat.

good luck,
dre

Dre,

I'm ordering some Stew-Mac ColorTone vintage amber and medium brown stain.

Is there any reason you used the ReRanch clear instead of the stew-mac clear? I've used the ReRanch stuff in the past but I'm wondering what the difference might be?...If I order it from stew-mac I can save a few bucks on shipping.

Did you use a straight clear or a tinted clear from ReRanch?

Thanks again for your help.

Mark

[dretot]

Mark,
I heard that the reranch clear has less plasticisers in it than the stew-mac stuff. Not sure if it's true, but I was able to check the laqcuer on a strat I refinished with reranch clear after about a year, so I didn't want to try anything new. I wanted to save some bucks on shipping also, but in the end it's just an extra $5 or so.
I used clear gloss, I used some of the tint gloss on my white sg, but only slightly misting 1 pass. It's is very tinted, too much in my opinion. You can only use it to lightly tint, not for a full final coat.

Here's a pic of my '61 sg after some tinted clear over white ........ugly! I sanded it off and re-sprayed it right after taking this pic.



here it is finished with just a light misting of tint and clear gloss.



Just go with clear gloss, It will yellow and check eventually.

dre

[markophonic]

Thanks Dre,

You confirmed my suspicions on the difference in the clear nitro's.

That SG is stunning...love it!

I had a '63 SG jr. that was white...the one guitar out of several hundred i've had that I never should have let go. I bought it in 1975 while I was in high school. Big fat neck and a P-90 to die for...It was my #1 player for about 25 years. I traded it off to Elderly instruments a year or so ago.

Thanks for answering my questions

Happy Holidays....I'll post some pics when I get the LP finished.

[Tone Seeker]

markophonic, be sure to post some pics when you're finished. It would be nice to see how everything turns out.

Terry.

[markophonic]

I ordered my vintage amber and medium brown stains today from stew-mac and I'm going to go with the ReRanch clear...Which I will order in the next day or so.

I'll try to post some pic's as I progress.

[markophonic]

Well I pulled the hardware and electronics tonight and started sanding...I'll start a new thread to chart the progress...it will be titled "Standard Faded Refin".

[Torren61]

I've refinished my '77 LP twice. I learned not to get the wood too wet with water (it'll crack) but raising the grain to get a smoother surface is important. I cut the dyes with rubbing alcohol. The first time I did the LP, I did it with a translucent black finish in mind. The second time it was to be a Black Beauty.
The '88 Strat was another custom project. I left the finish like it was because I thought it was cool and unusual. This was done with amber, cherry and black from Stew-Mac. It used to be black. I used the air canisters mounted on the bottle and filled with lacquer from cans I bought from Stew-Mac. I abandoned this delivery method because it always came out bumpy no matter how much I cut the lacquer. I eventually went with spray cans.
The cab was done with amber and a few drops of cherry added....just because.
All were finished with nitro lacquer. Careful with that stuff, it's deadly. Get a quality respirator and good ventilation cause it's also explosively flammable. I bought a shower tent from Wally World for $50 and did my projects there.
Now, to tell you the truth, if you have the money I'd have the pros do it just because it's such a pain and the materials and logistics to do it right is expensive to get started. On the flip side, you can always say "Look what I did, Mom!"
Finally, don't shoot in less than 65 degree weather or above 65% humidity. Buy a can of blush out just in case. You'll need about five cans of lacquer if you're just doing the top. You'll need various grits of sandpaper from 400 to 2000 plus auto finishing cream. It'll probably take about two or three months to complete the project if you have a job and you take your time to do it right and you don't bugger it and have to redo anything. Good luck.

(I tried to upload pics but the file sizes were too large. I can send them to you if you want.)

[Torren61]

Here's more pics of the other projects.

[markophonic]

Originally Posted by Torren61

Here's more pics of the other projects.

Your amp and cab look fantastic. Very Avant garde! Great Job!!

I'd like to have something like that for a living room amp...kinda blends in with the furniture...not that I don't like my tweeds and black tolex amps.

I considered having it done professionaly...got a reasonable quote from RS Guitarworks but I'm not trying to make this a "beautiful to-die-for burst" It's a player. I've built several guitars and have had success doing solid colors and vintage butterscotch type finishes on Fenders...though this is the first I've tackled that I'm trying to remove stain.

I've got a little more sanding to do and I'll hit the pool supply store tomorrow to pick up some calcium hypochloride (bleach) to bleach any remaining brown stain...

[Torren61]

Thanks. The head is from Guytronix. 12 AX7 preamp tube and a ECC99 for the power tube making 2 watts. It's a kit that I built. Point to point wiring. Mercury Magnetics trannys. Designed to sound like a clean Fender. Just under $400.
The cab is about $300 worth of AAAAA eastern rock maple. Baltic birch front and rear baffles. Celestion Gold Alnico 12 inch speaker. Finger joints and custom assembly were done by a local cabinet maker in Big Bear Lake, CA when I lived there. I tried to do it myself and almost buggered the whole thing.
The LP is a '77. Used to be Heritage Cherryburst. Locking Grovers. Pre-ban ivory nut and inlays. Ebony fretboard, Plekked with stainless steel fret wires. New Gibson plastic. Seymour Duncan Jimmy Page spec HBs. Roller saddle bridge. New Gibson stop and hardware. Alpha DPDT pots and NOS bumblebee caps (one was damaged on my last rewire so I'm replacing both with Vcaps and rewiring it again in about two weeks). Locking tuners and a Franklin strap.
I wasn't trying to sound like an expert before but I wasn't sure you knew what you were getting into. It sounds like you have it totally under control. It's gonna look great.
Good luck