Pots : 250k / 500k / 1 Meg ????

[FLICKOFLASH]

250K / 500K / 1 MEG ???? how do each effect the sound ? Full on is full on right? Is it the amount of sweep that is different? Is one better than the other for volume or tone controls ?

[lexluthier]

Using 500k pots with humbuckers as the standard, a 1 meg will have a brighter sound with more output, a 250k will be darker with less output. Some guys mix and match different ohmages like a 1 meg volume with a 250k tone, but IMO if it ain't broken, why fix it?

[PoorMan]

Lexluthier pretty much covered it. The lower the value pot, the lower the resonant peak. This is a nice fine-tuning tool for overly bright or dark guitars. I have a R7 that was excessively bright so I installed a 250k volume pot to shave off some of the high end. Worked like a charm.

[FLICKOFLASH]

On TGP someone said :Gene Baker and Dimarzio recommend a 250K volume and 1 Meg tone with a .022 cap between as the best compromise.


Gene came across it while at Fender, it was some trade secret there, and he uses it in ALL his guitars.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH

On TGP someone said :Gene Baker and Dimarzio recommend a 250K volume and 1 Meg tone with a .022 cap between as the best compromise.


Gene came across it while at Fender, it was some trade secret there, and he uses it in ALL his guitars.

There are ranges and options inbetween, 550 K, Pots, 300 K pots, 300 not as cutting as a 250, 550 for a lil more range, just some thoughts to add, and options to possibly consider

[PoorMan]

Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH

On TGP someone said :Gene Baker and Dimarzio recommend a 250K volume and 1 Meg tone with a .022 cap between as the best compromise.


Gene came across it while at Fender, it was some trade secret there, and he uses it in ALL his guitars.

Interesting. I wouldn't use it in the neck though--too dark. But one shouldn't be so resolute as to use the same setup in "all" ones guitars either. If a guitar is really dark, this setup would only make things worse.

I use different values depending on the guitar. I also measure my pots to position them optimally to the specific guitar (regardless of the advertised value). But (IMO) a 250k volume and 1meg tone sounds like a good setup for a bridge position 'bucker in most guitars.

[PoorMan]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

There are ranges and options inbetween, 550 K, Pots, 300 K pots, 300 not as cutting as a 250, 550 for a lil more range, just some thoughts to add, and options to possibly consider

All the 300ks I find are linear taper. Has anyone come accross an audio taper 300k?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by PoorMan

All the 300ks I find are linear taper. Has anyone come accross an audio taper 300k?

RS Guitarworks, in their Treble Tamer Kits
RS Guitarworks Online Store

[PoorMan]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

RS Guitarworks, in their Treble Tamer Kits
RS Guitarworks Online Store

Not individually though?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by PoorMan

Not individually though?

Contact RS, They might sell them that way, You asked and I found you an answer, I sometimes help my kids with their homework, I darn sure dont do it for em'

[PoorMan]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Contact RS, They might sell them that way, You asked and I found you an answer, I sometimes help my kids with their homework, I darn sure dont do it for em'

What. Did you miss your nap today or something?

[WildeStarr]

500K for all my passive, 25K for my EMG's

[FLICKOFLASH]

I got 250K volume control and a 1 Megohm tone control, (vintage) & wondering what you think / dimarzio & Gene Baker recommends this too. would I need a hotter pickup ?

Regardless of what type of pickups are in your guitar, higher potentiometer resistance values produce a little more power and treble response. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is a matter of individual taste. In the early days, Gibson used 500K controls and Fender used 250K, thereby starting the single-coil = 250K, humbucker = 500K theory. Even though neither company has stuck strictly with this formula since then, the theory lives on. You won’t damage your pickups or your amp by mixing and matching different value controls, and one of our current favorites is a 250K volume control and a 1 Megohm tone control, EP1202.( DiMarzio)

[WildeStarr]

hmmm.... here's an idea. Bypass all V & T controls and go straight from the pickup selector to the jack.

[lexluthier]

Years ago I experimented with 1 meg pots, sure the output was boosted, but the treble was too. For metal playing where you wanted the guitar to scream, it wasn't such a bad thing. The thing I hated was the pot taper of the 1 meg audios I was using.

A proponent of 250k volume and tone pots with humbuckers is Allan Holdsworth. He uses PAF-output (with screw poles on both bobbins) pickups with 250k pots, gives him some of that rich, warm tone he is known for.

[lexluthier]

Originally Posted by WildeStarr

hmmm.... here's an idea. Bypass all V & T controls and go straight from the pickup selector to the jack.

Marty Friedman used to do that with his Jackson Kellys. He wired them straight to the Jack. Jackson refused to do that with his siggy guitars and put a volume knob on them.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by lexluthier

Years ago I experimented with 1 meg pots, sure the output was boosted, but the treble was too. For metal playing where you wanted the guitar to scream, it wasn't such a bad thing. The thing I hated was the pot taper of the 1 meg audios I was using.

A proponent of 250k volume and tone pots with humbuckers is Allan Holdsworth. He uses PAF-output (with screw poles on both bobbins) pickups with 250k pots, gives him some of that rich, warm tone he is known for.

Hmm Dirty Fingers Pickups ??

[lexluthier]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Hmm Dirty Fingers Pickups ??

Similar in design, but with alnico magnets and wound to low output PAF type specs. Dirty Fingers had ceramic magnets and mega hot winds.
Allans pickups are Duncan 59's ordered with dual screw poles. Also Scott Henderson, back when he played humbuckers, used the same pickups.

I think the dual screw pole idea is kind of cool, it changes the sound of the pickup because they sound different than slug poles.

Check out the difference in sound between a Duncan JB and the old Duncan Holdsworth (which Allan never used, BTW). Exactly the same pickup, except that the Holdsworth had both bobbins with screw poles. The Holdsworth has a smoother high end and less of that upper mid hump the JB has.

[FLICKOFLASH]

lex I got a vintage harness off ebay 250 K volumes 1 Meg tones & I have dead on vintage bumble bees ... should i convert the pots or try a extra hot pickups ? Would like your thoughts . I am looking for a fat thick tone not a strat on a LP tone

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by lexluthier

Similar in design, but with alnico magnets and wound to low output PAF type specs. Dirty Fingers had ceramic magnets and mega hot winds.
Allans pickups are Duncan 59's ordered with dual screw poles. Also Scott Henderson, back when he played humbuckers, used the same pickups.

I think the dual screw pole idea is kind of cool, it changes the sound of the pickup because they sound different than slug poles.

Check out the difference in sound between a Duncan JB and the old Duncan Holdsworth (which Allan never used, BTW). Exactly the same pickup, except that the Holdsworth had both bobbins with screw poles. The Holdsworth has a smoother high end and less of that upper mid hump the JB has.

Thanks for the added education Lex, Hmm I have a question similar to Flicks
ok I have 496R/ 500T set in my fav Les, generally I like the sound of the front but want to darken up the rear, a bit, make it creamier thicker , just trim off a lil of the high end, my tone setting on that pickup when using it exclusivly is normally 5-7 on the tone, its rarely dimed out ever My present caps are the factory orange drop type .o22UF

[HolyGrail]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Thanks for the added education Lex, Hmm I have a question similar to Flicks
ok I have 496R/ 500T set in my fav Les, generally I like the sound of the front but want to darken up the rear, a bit, make it creamier thicker , just trim off a lil of the high end, my tone setting on that pickup when using it exclusivly is normally 5-7 on the tone, its rarely dimed out ever My present caps are the factory orange drop type .o22UF

Don,
Have you tried lowering the pickup ( I'm sure you have )

Ok so First try an .033 Cap ( Orange drop 715P ) If it's still too bright go to a .047

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by HolyGrail

Don,
Have you tried lowering the pickup ( I'm sure you have )

Ok so First try an .033 Cap ( Orange drop 715P ) If it's still too bright go to a .047

Hey Bro, I went over and paid a visit to my fav tech wizard amp guy, He maybe joining us shortly I told em specifically about our convo on this, and he agrees, I cant drop the pickup much more without losing the close eveness of the volumes but I amg gonna try, I do think .047's may possibly make it too dark, and I will lose nearly all my high end treble end on my amp is also between the 12 and 1 o' clock postions, bass and mids straight up 12, Seems to be good

[HolyGrail]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Hey Bro, I went over and paid a visit to my fav tech wizard amp guy, He maybe joining us shortly I told em specifically about our convo on this, and he agrees, I cant drop the pickup much more without losing the close eveness of the volumes but I amg gonna try, I do think .047's may possibly make it too dark, and I will lose nearly all my high end treble end on my amp is also between the 12 and 1 o' clock postions, bass and mids straight up 12, Seems to be good

I won't steer you wrong. At least not on purpose .

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by HolyGrail

I won't steer you wrong. At least not on purpose .

I knew that Brother HG,. I got no worries at all man I do want a new set of Custom handwounds, which we discussed , Now which Les will they go in first, this is the $64,000 question

[lexluthier]

Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH

lex I got a vintage harness off ebay 250 K volumes 1 Meg tones & I have dead on vintage bumble bees ... should i convert the pots or try a extra hot pickups ? Would like your thoughts . I am looking for a fat thick tone not a strat on a LP tone

You could always try it and see if you like it. The 1 meg tone pots might add back some of the highs lost by the 250K volumes. Personally (and this is just IMO) I like to stick with 500k for humbuckers, because they just plain work well. If I have a bright bridge pickup, I'll go to my friends shop where he buys pots by the sack, and maybe find a couple pots in the lower 400K area. If I have a muddy neck pickup, I'll try to find the highest reading ones, usually 575k is about as high as I've been able to find. FWIW, most old Centralab 500k pots read well over 500k, most of the ones I have had have been closer to 600k.

My problem with dicking around with tone caps is, if you actually use your tone pot, using a .047 with humbuckers is going to sound like shit if you roll it back, total mud tones. I actually like a .015 cap for the bridge pickup, because it is more useable for me. With some overdrive going, you can roll it back and get the woman tones without the tone turning into farty sounding glop. I also like .022's if they are good sounding ones. They all sound different. Best cheap ones I've found are those Russian military surplus PIO caps you can get on Ebay.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by lexluthier

You could always try it and see if you like it. The 1 meg tone pots might add back some of the highs lost by the 250K volumes. Personally (and this is just IMO) I like to stick with 500k for humbuckers, because they just plain work well. If I have a bright bridge pickup, I'll go to my friends shop where he buys pots by the sack, and maybe find a couple pots in the lower 400K area. If I have a muddy neck pickup, I'll try to find the highest reading ones, usually 575k is about as high as I've been able to find. FWIW, most old Centralab 500k pots read well over 500k, most of the ones I have had have been closer to 600k.

My problem with dicking around with tone caps is, if you actually use your tone pot, using a .047 with humbuckers is going to sound like shit if you roll it back, total mud tones. I actually like a .015 cap for the bridge pickup, because it is more useable for me. With some overdrive going, you can roll it back and get the woman tones without the tone turning into farty sounding glop. I also like .022's if they are good sounding ones. They all sound different. Best cheap ones I've found are those Russian military surplus PIO caps you can get on Ebay.

Lex, Thanks alot this and other info I have gotten really does help alot

[lexluthier]

You can also experiment with 50's style wiring and modern style. Both work differently, even though electronics experts will tell you there is no logical difference. I personally like 50's style wiring, it lets more of the highs through when rolling back the vol. pot without using bypass cap, which is another pet peave of mine. LOL

I hate bypass caps, I find the highs they bleed thru sound artificial, and messes with the taper. Every guitar I buy that has them, they get clipped out pronto.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by lexluthier

You can also experiment with 50's style wiring and modern style. Both work differently, even though electronics experts will tell you there is no logical difference. I personally like 50's style wiring, it lets more of the highs through when rolling back the vol. pot without using bypass cap, which is another pet peave of mine. LOL

I hate bypass caps, I find the highs they bleed thru sound artificial, and messes with the taper. Every guitar I buy that has them, they get clipped out pronto.

I am gonna get the meter out, Meter my pots and maybe heat up the soldering iron,
On my Orville Les Paul I have three Jap Caps and one Gibson, I Believe that one is still modern wired , when you roll down/back the tone cap sometimes it also has a tendancy to clip volume a bit, can this also be fixed with 50s type wiring?

[BOBBO]

A discussion about POT and I wasn't asked for my expert opinion ?? Ohh it's guitar pots !!! as Gilda Radner would say ... " Nevermind " !!

[FLICKOFLASH]

Originally Posted by lexluthier

You could always try it and see if you like it. The 1 meg tone pots might add back some of the highs lost by the 250K volumes. Personally (and this is just IMO) I like to stick with 500k for humbuckers, because they just plain work well. If I have a bright bridge pickup, I'll go to my friends shop where he buys pots by the sack, and maybe find a couple pots in the lower 400K area. If I have a muddy neck pickup, I'll try to find the highest reading ones, usually 575k is about as high as I've been able to find. FWIW, most old Centralab 500k pots read well over 500k, most of the ones I have had have been closer to 600k.

My problem with dicking around with tone caps is, if you actually use your tone pot, using a .047 with humbuckers is going to sound like shit if you roll it back, total mud tones. I actually like a .015 cap for the bridge pickup, because it is more useable for me. With some overdrive going, you can roll it back and get the woman tones without the tone turning into farty sounding glop. I also like .022's if they are good sounding ones. They all sound different. Best cheap ones I've found are those Russian military surplus PIO caps you can get on Ebay.

I am more worried about it weakining the sound ,do you think i should convert them & do you know how ?