is this really "terrorism"?

[TOMMYTHUNDERS]

Activist Sentenced to Two Years for A.L.F. Mink Liberation | Voice of the Voiceless

[diceman]

Nope. Well... I guess it depends on the threats. Or... No - not even then. Felony Theft, Felony Threats, etc., but terrorism needs to be on a slightly larger scale.

He may have "terrorized" a few people - but the term "Terrorist" may be being thrown around a bit loosely in this case.

[diceman]

A.L.F. could be considered a terrorist group on the macro scale, though.

I need to think more on this one...

[TOMMYTHUNDERS]

i'm sure the terrorism must refer to the graffiti left behind... but come on, it's not a threat of violence.

[diceman]

I hear you. That said, those wacko bastards at A.L.F. are a violent group. I suppose that an "active" member could be loosely considered a "Terrorist."

[coldsteal2]

ALF is on the FBI terrorist watch

[djwilbanks]

[TOMMYTHUNDERS]

Benson retreated to the emotive language both him and the prosecutor have made familiar in this case, stating Viehl “caused terror”, and that he knows of no other word for releasing animals from cages than “terrorism”.

how did this cause terror? how can releasing animals from cages be considered terror? not exactly a suicide bombing.

[kernelofwisdom]

Isn't the link a story from ALF?

In that case, it might be leaving out the very things that caused the judge to make the statements cited, if the judge did.

In my experience with animal rights people (some litigation involving one major group and some other side stuff representing industries that were being infiltrated), they were willing to take great liberties on what they wrote and who they claimed wrote it, all for the larger cause. Truth is not what drives them; the issue on animals is.

I'm sympathetic to the idea of treating animals well. On the other hand, there are some people who really do want to go to war against people who use animals, for medical experiments, clothing, etc. It at least used to be a tactic of theirs to show up at employees' homes (management) and to do things to cause the people to be fearful of their safety. Given their perspective on the issue, I understand why, though I didn't agree with that tactic.

So, perhaps important facts were omitted from the article that might have swung the issue closer to being one of a sort of domestic terrorism.

[crazymike]

Depends on what you (or the court) defines as terror.

[KSG_Standard]

is this really "terrorism"?

Yes. Have you ever seen a hungry Mink? Isn't this group the same ones who burn ski resorts and SUVs?

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by KSG_Standard

is this really "terrorism"?

Yes. Have you ever seen a hungry Mink? Isn't this group the same ones who burn ski resorts and SUVs?

I think your referring to the E.L.F (Earth Liberation Front). They've almost killed people by burning down what they though were unoccupied houses, because of "urban sprawl".

Now, I wouldn't exactly call people like this "terrorists", "extremists" maybe, but definately not terrorists.

[snaredrum]

wonder what all those mink have done for the local ecosystem... vicious little bastards, mink.

this group use shock tactics and illegal acts to further their aims. sounds like terrorism to me. although this guy is possible the most pathetic convicted terrorist i've ever seen

[Blues4U]

Originally Posted by TOMMYTHUNDERS

Activist Sentenced to Two Years for A.L.F. Mink Liberation | Voice of the Voiceless

ALF and ELF are both terrorist organizations--They terrorize business and communities by bombing, burning, defacing personal and public property--

They have destroyed labs where cutting edge medical research was going on--I recall one such attack a few years ago that was said to set back a particular type of nasty cancer's research back 10 years--



ELF has gone to construction sites nation wide and destroyed peoples homes and business's under the guise of caring so deeply for the EARTH that they will put HUMAns LIVES AT RISK, by either having to fight the fires, defuse the bombs or other sorts of things that hurt or kill people durring fires- A few years ago, here in Indiana, ELF attacked (Their words, not mine) a construction site of a small business of some sort. There was a security guard working that was injured due to their actions-

ELF and ALF are the new version of "The Weather Underground"

Regardless if you agree with their cause, they are cut from the same cloth as the IRA, the PLO, Anti-Abortion groups that bomb offices and kill doctors, Al Queda and any other group that feels the need to destroy property, lives and communities to make a political statement-

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by Blues4U

...Regardless if you agree with their cause, they are cut from the same cloth as the IRA, the PLO, Anti-Abortion groups that bomb offices and kill doctors, Al Queda and any other group that feels the need to destroy property, lives and communities to make a political statement-

I agree that they are criminal. But I don't think it's right to say they're the same as the old IRA or Al Qaeda, etc. Intent is an important part of any crime, and it affects the way we deal with the perpetrator. Al Qaeda and friends intend to kill people. To maim, mutilate and cause destruction and terror. They actively plot to murder.

The animal rights people are irresponsible, criminal and dangerous to life and property. But they are not dangerous to life the way a suicide bomber in a night club is deadly. Their actions are not calculated to inflict maximum casualties the way a couple of bombs in a market square are calculated and intended to cause massive slaughter.

In seven words, they are not trying to commit murder. So there is a difference, in my view.

[Pwozzie]

ELF and ALF are absolutely domestic terrorist scum.

[porkchop87]

ter⋅ror⋅ism
  /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ [ter-uh-riz-uhm]
–noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.


Sounds like terrorism to me...

[CenCalPlayer]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

I agree that they are criminal. But I don't think it's right to say they're the same as the old IRA or Al Qaeda, etc. Intent is an important part of any crime, and it affects the way we deal with the perpetrator. Al Qaeda and friends intend to kill people. To maim, mutilate and cause destruction and terror. They actively plot to murder.

The animal rights people are irresponsible, criminal and dangerous to life and property. But they are not dangerous to life the way a suicide bomber in a night club is deadly. Their actions are not calculated to inflict maximum casualties the way a couple of bombs in a market square are calculated and intended to cause massive slaughter.

In seven words, they are not trying to commit murder. So there is a difference, in my view.

How do you think these other groups started out? Just like what we are seeing from the likes of ALF and ELF....they start small then their acts grow in magnitude over time until you end up with the guy with a bomb in a night club......

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by CenCalPlayer

How do you think these other groups started out? Just like what we are seeing from the likes of ALF and ELF....they start small then their acts grow in magnitude over time until you end up with the guy with a bomb in a night club......

That is certainly NOT true of Al Qaeda.

[Blues4U]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

That is certainly NOT true of Al Qaeda.

True, but this is an exception to the rule that most violent, terrosit type of groups start small--then evolve into wholesale killing machines--

Al Queda would have started small if not for the fact that Bin Laden and some of the other founders were rich and connected to wealthy, benifactors.


The trouble with any of the animal rights, eco groups is this--

There are many people that just love puppies and trees and other pretty things that are unknowngly involved or supporting radicals. Some of these radicals have killed and maimed for their cause--

This holds true with the anti abortion supporters.. Most of these people just think it is wrong to kill an unborn child---They would never resort to killing the killers of babies---All it takes is a few head cases and the entire movement is destroyed--

Any person or group that tries to promote their domestic or ecological agenda by force, fear or terror is a terrorist to some degree--

ALF and ELF are dangerous groups with very dangerous radicals---Although many of us on this very site disagree and even call each other names, we for the most part would not consider burning down somebodies business, house, car or physically assault members of an opposing group because of differing idiology or politics--These people not only participate, they are proud of it and it is part of their M.O. to do so.----The spiking of trees in the west is one example of how so called "peaceful radicals" have killed and maimed people in the past--Loggers and lumbermill workers have suffered numerous times at the hands of these people--

Regardless of your opinion towards the logging industry, I would assume most off us value human life above that of a tree--These people do not--

I could spend days giving you all an education of the more radical elements of the animals rights and ecco groups in the mid west--I have had several dealings with them--They should be taken far more seriously than they are--Never underestimate the convictions of a zealot--regardless of his or her politics-

I am also not saying that these same sort of people do not exist on each and every side of the political spectrum--They are all equally dangerous-For some reason, people on the left find it hard to accept that people on their side of any argument can be just as crazy as skin heads, abortion bombers and KKK members--I don't trust Zealots regardless of their politics--

[Pwozzie]

One of the ALF scum was lecturing children how to create incendiary devices with stuff around the house.

[Cookie-boy]

Originally Posted by Blues4U

ALF and ELF are both terrorist organizations!

Fuckin' arseholes!

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Pwozzie

One of the ALF scum was lecturing children how to create incendiary devices with stuff around the house.

Throw out a link, would you? Also, "incendiary device" is a pretty freaking umbrella term. Are we talking bombs? Why not say bombs?

Not saying that I don't think these people are terrorists, I do. Terrorism is using terror to change the way people think or behave, that's exactly what these people do.

[Blues4U]

Originally Posted by Jason

Throw out a link, would you? Also, "incendiary device" is a pretty freaking umbrella term. Are we talking bombs? Why not say bombs?

Not saying that I don't think these people are terrorists, I do. Terrorism is using terror to change the way people think or behave, that's exactly what these people do.

Incendiary device is as broad a term as "Missle" snowball throwers back east "Lobbed Missles" at an occupied vehicle--

Can't speak to the incendiary device tactic towards children but I can speak for the Animal Rights groups trying to indoctrinate school aged children, at times with the local school system's full cooperation--It happens regularly and I have worked to stop it before and will in the future as well--When I go to school and read to the little guys and gals, I do not put forth any hidden or secret agenda--we just read approved, non politcal books and have a great deal of fun doing it I expect others to do the same-- But this discussion is for another thread---

Radical environmentalist and Animals Rights groups are dangerous and should be taken seriously--

[diceman]

Originally Posted by Jason

Throw out a link, would you? Also, "incendiary device" is a pretty freaking umbrella term. Are we talking bombs? Why not say bombs?

Not saying that I don't think these people are terrorists, I do. Terrorism is using terror to change the way people think or behave, that's exactly what these people do.

Penn and Teller's "Bullshit" episode on PETA.

[diceman]

Animal Liberation Front Delivers 4 Incendiary Devices to Nevada Primate Supplier Thomas Paine's Corner

[Blues4U]

Originally Posted by diceman

Penn and Teller's "Bullshit" episode on PETA.

I love these guys when they do these shows---

[Blues4U]

Originally Posted by diceman

Animal Liberation Front Delivers 4 Incendiary Devices to Nevada Primate Supplier Thomas Paine's Corner

Jason--This stuff goes on regularly--This is why I say--Do not discount what these people are capable of--They are dangerous--and radical to the point of being irrational--

[Agave_Blue]

Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder; kind of like the saying that the winners write the history books.

We forget that our independence was won, in part, by what could arguably be labled today as "terrorism".

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Blues4U

Jason--This stuff goes on regularly--This is why I say--Do not discount what these people are capable of--They are dangerous--and radical to the point of being irrational--

Like I said, I already do consider them terrorists. I'm not defending them, I'm just against the spreading of anecdotal and vague stories. I'm still not finding any description of the devices that were delivered to the students.

It's probably in our best interest to know the full details of what these types of groups do. Yes, they're nuts... just like the jihadists, they believe that their cause is the utmost important thing in existence. They'll change the world at any cost, even if people have to die.