How Much Does the Guitar Create the Player?

[marklp69]

This is kind of a philosophical question.

Take, some great Les Paul players for example. Would Kossoff still be Kossoff if their was never a burst? Same for Page, Green, Clapton, Walsh, et. al.

I'm asking because in the first time of my life I've got some great electric guitars. They keep "calling me back" if you will. The guitar itself is so good that I want to keep picking it up and playing it, trying to bring out the best in the instrument. If the guitar sucked, would I eventually get discouraged and give up?

Kossoff is a great example. In the Free Forever DVD, there are photos of Kossoff at a very young age wielding a burst. Now there is a guy who brought out the best in a burst. If he didn't have such great Les Pauls, to which direction would he have gone?

Then, one could reverse the question and ask, how much did the players create the burst?

Cut me some slack please. It's late and I'm an insomniac!

I know that most people don't like to hear it, but it's all about the player.

[FennRx]

i think that having a really good guitar can be very inspirational. it's hard to want to play if you have a guitar you don't click with.

Originally Posted by FennRx

i think that having a really good guitar can be very inspirational. it's hard to want to play if you have a guitar you don't click with.

Very true! BUT... That special guitar could be anything. Ya know what I mean?

[AndyC]

My first reaction was "none". The guitar is just a tool, etc..

But after some consideration, I believe there is a relationship that is built between the player and the instrument in such great pairings as the OP mentioned. Similar to the relationship between a warrior and their sword, or a great military fighter and their stallion. Together the reputation is built and respected. I believe in those special cases - like B.B. King and "Lucille" (even though there are many Lucille's) the reputation of greatness is an image of the player with the particular instrument.

Interesting question worthy of longer consideration.

[dwagar]

I think a great guitar brings something special. It's up to you to find it, to coax it out of there.
An example would be harmonic overtones.

And I really think there can be a 'mojo' connection you can develop with your guitar. When you're gigging late, starting to get tired out, and all of a sudden 'whoa! where did THAT come from?' - your baby starts unleashing some tones that bring a smile to your face. Screw the crowd, it's all about you and your guitar.

But, having said that, would any of the greats be less great without the Les Paul? I seriously doubt it. They were great because:
- they were (are) fantastic musicians
- there were (are) extremely committed to their craft.

Remember, a lot of them became famous playing a Tele.

Originally Posted by AndyC

My first reaction was "none". The guitar is just a tool, etc..

But after some consideration, I believe there is a relationship that is built between the player and the instrument in such great pairings as the OP mentioned. Similar to the relationship between a warrior and their sword, or a great military fighter and their stallion. Together the reputation is built and respected. I believe in those special cases - like B.B. King and "Lucille" (even though there are many Lucille's) the reputation of greatness is an image of the player with the particular instrument.

Interesting question worthy of longer consideration.

Andy

I wholeheartedly agree that a player has to connect with an instrument. Moreover, the way in which a given player personally feels about a particular instrument is very important, but I don't think the that the brand, quality, or model matters all that much.

The original question suggested (somewhat) that a "burst" my have played a role in a given players fame. Although we have know way of knowing, I would tend to think not.

I guess what I'm trying to say is; a good player, with a guitar that allows him/her to play what they want to play, and achieve the sound they want to achieve, regardless of whether or not the guitar is a burst or a plank of firewood, is really all that matters.

Case in point... A friend of mine regularly plays an early 70's Strat, that most people would consider unplayable, but it sounds glorious when he's playing it, and he wouldn't part with for all the bursts in the world.

[idlewild south]

The player has to connect with his soul;a good player can connect with almost any instrument;for example,you can't have a guitar so you give up just because all you have is a violin or piano or whatever?These threads are almost always related to electric players because of more excuses in the signal chain-what amp,what pickups,what effects?A player can play-and in the words of Bocephus-"a country boy will survive."

Originally Posted by idlewild south

The player has to connect with his soul;a good player can connect with almost any instrument;for example,you can't have a guitar so you give up just because all you have is a violin or piano or whatever?These threads are almost always related to electric players because of more excuses in the signal chain-what amp,what pickups,what effects?A player can play-and in the words of Bocephus-"a country boy will survive."

You somethin'??? I kind of agree with this too.

The internet communities represent such a small amount of the guitar playing public, and it seems that only on the internet are these meaningless details so important.

Perhaps some people should play more and type less. Then maybe they'll find that "magical bond" between player and instrument that eludes so many.

FWIW

[LoKi]

I'll play anything. Still seems to sound like me, no matter what it is. Dunno if thats a good thing or not, but that's what it is! It helps to have a quality instrument so you don't have to work as hard to play, but I don't think the type of guitar really matters as much. Sure Lesters sound like Lesters, Strats like Strats ect... But I'll always sound like LoKi.

[marklp69]

One answer to this, came to me in the form of info about JPP.

Someone on the other forum once said, jokingly: "I recently found out that some of the best LP tones I've ever heard came from a tele".

I didn't know specifically what that meant until someone on this forum pointed out that the solo in "Ten Years Gone" was done by a tele. That is one of my favorite solos ever and I had always mistakingly thought it was one of his LPs.

This first came to my mind when listening to and watching videos of Paul Kossoff. He was so at one with the instrument and he sure makes that instrument sing. It's hard to imagine him with another guitar. The photos of him being so young with a burst made me wonder to what level did the LP shape his amazing tone and playing style and would he have developed into a different type of musician with a different guitar.

I guess the same could be thought about with other greats such as Hendrix, Rory Gallagher or SRV on a strat!

Food for thought anyway...

[RickRoll]

It's all about the player imo , maybe a tiny bit is put up to the guitar

[scoobyzjr]

It is all about the player. When I first started playing, I heard someone say that when you start getting bored with your playing, buying new equipment will only satisfy the feeling for so long. Learning new songs, licks, scales, etc will keep your playing interesting. So if a player is good, then it shouldn't matter what guitar/amp is being used. Although, finding the right guitar for you certainly makes everything better, be it cheap or high quality.

[uOpt]

It's all about the player, but the guitar he/she uses when becoming one plays a big role.

You'll notice that there are very few "crossovers" who play several radically different electrics at the same time. The magic that they have in their playing, which is how they nurse the strings to bring out the nuances in their play, just doesn't work on a different guitar with different dynamics. It doesn't even have to do with how they play neck-wise or whatever, just with how applying different forces brings out the full range of the instrument.

[Belzeebub]

I see it this way. Its both. From my own personal experience, I can definitely say both. When I was 9, I picked up the guitar. When I was 14, I had my very first electric. It was a used, FAKE black Fender stratocaster. It was God-awful (looking back). To give you an idea of how bad it was, a modern Squire strat is billions of lightyears away in playability, sound, and fit/finish. It was a total POS. But I didnt have much money and that was all I could possibly afford at the time. This fake strat was black and had a white pickguard, "maple" neck and fretboard, had the large '70s headstock with the Fender logo snaking its way along the bottom edge of the headstock, it probably weighed 4lbs, and its tremolo system was similar to that of old gibsons/epiphones (not the bigsby, the other one, IDK what its called). While I was still able to join a band and gig around, I rarely used it onstage. I used it for rehersals and practicing at home, but I was usually provided by our band manager with another guitar during performances. And those were the years wherein I would have probably been most productive in improving my playing skills but I was severely hampered by the guitar that I played on 90% of the time. Even a First Act guitar is a masterpiece compared to my very first electric.

[Lair22]

A lot of good input here. To me, it's more of the guitar shaping the player, rather than making him/her. The guitar is an instant bio-feedback machine. With a singing tone and a familiar neck, I can play past my ability and surf the music - let its momentum propel my playing and vice versa. Give me a butt-tone, no matter the guitar, and this player anyhow is really diminished (not a flat-5 joke). Also, in the formative years, I think the same player would develop a different vocabulary/voice if they learned on a Tele or LP. That said, Jeff Beck, Mark Knoffler, Eric Johnson and such are so touch-driven that a Fender or Gibson sounds like them when they play rather than them sounding like the guitar. So some of it is about a person's evolution as a player, also. IMHO.

[ReverendJWblues]

For me I think I would have given up long ago if I didnt have a guitar I liked. Im talking just the feel more than anything. If I hadnt had a good guitar at a young age I wouldnt be playing. I was lucky my father bought me a beat up used Les Paul jr from one of his friends when I was 12, I didnt even know about the guitar itself so to speak but it felt good in my hands, and the rest is history. I do think a good guitar can/will make you a better player, but at the same time its all about the drive you have to asspire at something. But as a young person if it was a shit guitar I would have probably never attacked it like I did.

[mrkenny]

I've been fortunate to have owned quite a few guitars some more inspirational than others. I do at present play a '53-54 Harmony H44 Stratotone that brings out the best in me. I've modified it to suit my style of music. I installed two early 50's P90's and turned the trapeze hookup into a string thru the body configuration. I've bonded with this guitar for a while and I'll have to say it plays a large part in how I play. It is, for whatever reason my perfect guitar.

[delawaregold]

Tone is in the fingers.
If you have talent, then a nice guitar never hurts.

[ledfree]

It's down to the player i'm affraid. Also some players have a preferred weapon of choice.

[ThrashPirate]

Definitely the player. I've been playing my LP almost all the time but suddenly decided to pick up the classical nylon string and wrote my first song on the guitar ....that I happen to never play.

[mojofilter]

think about this...they go hand in hand! many if not all players rely on a certain feel, tone,vibe that comes from so many different varaibles,certain musicians would not or could not have written different riffs, or songs on anything other than their weapon of choice! the guitar makes the player!
if it didnt he or she would not even pick it up in the first place.the guitar creates the inspiration.however the guitar is only a tool.

[Lefty Elmo]

Originally Posted by KennyF

I know that most people don't like to hear it, but it's all about the player.

I agree with you that it's about the player. But I remember several years ago, when I got my first Strat. I noticed one day while playing, that I was using Eric Clapton's vibrato, which I had never done before, and hadn't really thought to play like that before. It had just crept in there. I haven't used a Strat in over seven years now, and I'm still using Clapton's vibrato. But I DO believe that using a Strat lead me to a different way of playing.

[LoKi]

My first guitar was a Silvertone. Then I had a Sonex, and a few Strats. Guitars are the tools, the voice you use to express your playing. Any player with his own style will not be affected what type of guitar he plays.

16 Les Paul's later *what can I say? I found a tone I like* I still play whatever you put into my hands. I don't instantly start flatpicking when I pick up my acoustic the same way I don't start playing jazz when I pick up a box guitar. The Strat doesn't turn me into a surf maniac, and the first riff I play on an SG isn't going to be anything Clapton or Young.

The player is everything. The guitar is like a hammer. A hammer is a valuable tool, but you still gotta have nails.