HealthCare Reform

[Led Zep Fan]

Do we really need it? Why should it be forced on you if you don't want/need it? What's the big rush, anyway? Thoughts.

House panel cancels Tuesday healthcare meeting | Reuters

WUSA9.com | Washington, DC | Cardin Town Hall Meeting On Health Care Gets Angry

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama "Not Familiar" With Key Provision In Health Care Bill

[Pwozzie]

They want to rush it before Americans wake up to smell the BS power grab by this fascist.

[Led Zep Fan]

TheHill.com

[coldsteal2]

I dont think they will get away with it this time

[The baron of norsworthy]

Originally Posted by Led Zep Fan

Do we really need it? Why should it be forced on you if you don't want/need it? What's the big rush, anyway? Thoughts.

House panel cancels Tuesday healthcare meeting | Reuters

WUSA9.com | Washington, DC | Cardin Town Hall Meeting On Health Care Gets Angry

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama "Not Familiar" With Key Provision In Health Care Bill

Thats an interesting read especally from out side the USA it looks like you now have The New Labour party!!!! where everything they want to push through becomes a crisis. and lots of PR to go with it.

If you want to know whats behined the rush you will find multi corporate interests at the heart of it.

Over here in the UK we have the NHS were everyone pays in and it is deducted from your wages however our government masters decided that we must pay for perscriptions if we earn over seventeen thosand a year!!!!

however single moms who have never been married and have 6 children with 6 different father get everything for free and if they say they have depression they get a free vacation for her and all the children!!!!!!

[Led Zep Fan]

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

I dont think they will get away with it this time

It's definitely hurting his popularity....

Polls can affect president's hold on party - USATODAY.com

[geochem1st]

YES we need healthcare reform. But do we need this package? NO!

[Led Zep Fan]

Senior Democrat says no consensus on health bill

[Pwozzie]

They canceled the press conference so they could lobby the Chairman. LOL!

[Led Zep Fan]

What happened to all that promised transparency?

White House misses deadline on spending cuts report - CNN.com

Gitmo review delayed 6 months - Washington Times

Administration Delaying Release of Key Economic Report

GAO: FDA can't estimate its own budget needs

[geochem1st]

The promise of Transparancy was at best a naive one. There was no way the manpower or technical difficulties roadblocks could be surmounted in less than one year.... more likely many years to do that, with a significant increase in staffs just for the reporting and maintenance that would be necessary.

Tell me you believed it was doable?

[Led Zep Fan]

Originally Posted by geochem1st

Tell me you believed it was doable?

I didn't believe anything he promised!

[Led Zep Fan]

Democrats challenge Obama signing statement

[KSG_Standard]

Do all Americans have a right to have free healthcare? Do all Americans have a right to the same level of healthcare? Who decided that healthcare was a "right"? Is healthcare a constitutional right or a judicially created right?

It's definately sad when people need healthcare services and they don't have the money to see a specialist, or to pay for pharmaceuticals or surgery. But wealth has always provided more and better goods and services to the people who have it. Poverty has always been an impediment to getting the best medical service, the best legal services, the best food,clothing, etc...Isn't that at least part of what drives people to succeed and to better themselves?

Why is it the responsibility of the "rich" to be forced to take care of all of the needs of the "poor"? Who made the decision that the "rich" are responsible for the less than rich? What is "rich"? Who decides what "rich" is?

The US healthcare system is the BEST in the world, it just happens to be expensive. What I mean by the best in the world is, the best trained doctors and nurses, the best diagnostic equipment, the best pharmaceuticals, the best care in the hospitals. Excellent healthcare is always going to be expensive, whether individuals are picking up the tab directly or the gov't is making the payments with our tax dollars. I would rather have an expensive, talented, skilled and highly educated doctor that is making a fortune,
than a physicion that is making gov't wages and is essentially working for a gov't determined salary. Which doctor would you rather have?

The American system is supposed to provide equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOME...The idea of insuring equal outcome, means a race to the bottom.


Our health insurance industry needs reform, that, IMO is a fact that most sane, rational people can't argue with...However, it seems that we should be able to reform and regulate the industry, without having the federal gov't get involved in procuring and providing health insurance. The "poor" and elderly are already covered by medicare and medicade...look how well that's worked out for us!

Private insurers are not really in the business of helping people with healthcare, they are huge investment companies and
they are really all about making money for their stockholders and stakeholders. These companies should be regulated to the hilt! Insurance companies should not be allowed to drop sick people from plans, they should not be allowed to exclude folks with pre-existing conditions...Insurance policies should be portable from job to job, customers should be able to shop for and purchase insurance across state lines, customers should have an easier time forming groups and getting group rates.

Real and meaningful insurance regulation has been elusive over the past decades because the greedy, thieving, lying politicians are in the pocket of the industry. But the solution we are looking for, surely can't come from the same greedy, lying theives that got us into the mess we are in now, can it? The existing regulatory structure comes from our esteemed congress!

Insurance rates and costs are set by actuaries and bean counters, looking to minimize costs and to maximize ROI. In order to lower rates, we need to have more younger and healthier people in the risk pool. Among the largest groups of uninsured are the 18-35 year olds, many of whom DECIDE not to purchase insurance because it's not a priority to them. But adding this group to the risk pool would allow for a huge drop in insurance rates. Do we force this group to purchase insurance? Is that constitutional or ethical? There is also a large group of uninsured that choose not to pay for insurance premiums and instead pay cash for medical care. Do we force these people to pay for insurance as well?

If we let the gov't get involved in the delivery and decision making aspect of healthcare then the gov't will soon be deeply involved in deciding what we can eat, drink, smoke, and do with our bodies. I don't want that do you? One of the largest costs in healthcare today is providing medical care to people with diabetes, heart disease, and other diseases that are associated with bad living habits (i.e., food, drink, smoking, etc)...The "poor" suffer more from these diseases because of lifestyle choice, limited food options (percieved or real) and other problems that the wealthier in society don't have. Whose responsibility is it to provide for these "poor" people? What about freedom and personal responsibility?

Whatever the solutions are to our healthcare/health insurance problems, it seems that the smart and responsible thing for our congress and pres to do, would be to openly debate, study and work together towards a solution that actually solves the problems, doesn't bankrupt the country, and the solution does not need to be crammed down our throats by August!

[allbusinessjoe]

Originally Posted by geochem1st

YES we need healthcare reform. But do we need this package? NO!

Agreed.

Health care costs have doubled in the last 10 years, and have outpaced wages by a ratio of 4 to 1.

How long can that realistically be sustained?

[Pwozzie]

We have 300 million people.
Many are illegal aliens.
Almost 50% of Americans do not pay federal income taxes and already use our $ for some kind of aid.

It's unsustainable.

How about anyone that WANTS gov't coverage must be forced to pay 3% income tax, regardless of income... and that's for healthy people.. smokers and the obese: 10%.

[kernelofwisdom]

Originally Posted by Pwozzie

We have 300 million people.
Many are illegal aliens.
Almost 50% of Americans do not pay federal income taxes and already use our $ for some kind of aid.

It's unsustainable.

How about anyone that WANTS gov't coverage must be forced to pay 3% income tax, regardless of income... and that's for healthy people.. smokers and the obese: 10%.

They can fix that. Once the all-knowing government is totally in control, they can tweak things to bring them in line. Consider, for example, the coercive abortions and government controlled sterilization discussed in a textbook co-authored by Obama's science czar.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/072109_holdren2.pdf

It is amazing to me the very little value that is placed on autonomy from central institutions and decision makers and the apparently limitless value placed on government control, marketed as less expensive more available services.

[Led Zep Fan]

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Senator: Democrats “baffled” by president’s health care stance - Blogs from CNN.com

Hoyer Says House May Leave Before Health-Care Vote (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

FT.com / US / Politics & Foreign policy - Obama hits at healthcare ?scare? tactics

Budget chief: Docs fees not paid for in Obama bill




Obama goes prime-time to pitch healthcare - UPI.com

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told The New York Times Obama intends to use the news conference as a "six-month report card," to talk about "how we rescued the economy from the worst recession" and the legislative agenda moving forward, including health care and energy legislation.

What?!?!?!?

[Brian Butler]

If you want the govt. to wait on this health care until we get the money to make the change and until we can DISCUSS it as a two-party system, simply send an email to both your senators and your Representative. Threaten to vote for the other guy. Every email counts, believe it or not.

U.S. Senate: Senators Home

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

[AXE]

Two Quotes to Ponder:

'Life's tough......it's even tougher if you're
stupid.' -- John Wayne

'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the
history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as
we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama

Unfortunately now we are beginning to understand what
the second one means and what the first says about us.

[Led Zep Fan]

My Way News - Obama may have to wait for health care passage

[allbusinessjoe]

Our politicians wouldn't lie to us.

Or would they???

You Tube

You Tube

[Led Zep Fan]

"No one wants to tell the speaker (Nancy Pelosi) that she's moving too fast and they damn sure don't want to tell the president," Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., a key committee chairman, told a fellow lawmaker as the two walked into a closed-door meeting Tuesday. The remark was overheard by reporters.

+

[Pwozzie]

Worse than Carter in the approval ratings now.

[Wizzle]

It's definately sad when people need healthcare services and they don't have the money to see a specialist, or to pay for pharmaceuticals or surgery. But wealth has always provided more and better goods and services to the people who have it. Poverty has always been an impediment to getting the best medical service, the best legal services, the best food,clothing, etc...Isn't that at least part of what drives people to succeed and to better themselves?

Social mobility is almost non-existent in the US (and the UK), it's very difficult to climb the social and economic ladder and most don't make it. Even if it was possible, some people just don't have the ability to move up to better paid jobs.

Why is it the responsibility of the "rich" to be forced to take care of all of the needs of the "poor"? Who made the decision that the "rich" are responsible for the less than rich? What is "rich"? Who decides what "rich" is?

Because rich people, largely, make their money by paying employees less than the value of the wealth they create.

The US healthcare system is the BEST in the world, it just happens to be expensive. What I mean by the best in the world is, the best trained doctors and nurses, the best diagnostic equipment, the best pharmaceuticals, the best care in the hospitals

That's a pretty meaningless definition if you have no money.

I would rather have an expensive, talented, skilled and highly educated doctor that is making a fortune,
than a physicion that is making gov't wages and is essentially working for a gov't determined salary. Which doctor would you rather have?

Again, that's okay if you have the money. Bit of a false dilemma though, doctors would be very good wages in the US as they are here.

The American system is supposed to provide equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOME...The idea of insuring equal outcome, means a race to the bottom.

Though in reality it does neither. And it doesn't mean a race to the bottom, you have the monay and the skills, all you need do is set high standards.

The "poor" and elderly are already covered by medicare and medicade...look how well that's worked out for us!

I'll assume that was ironic and move on...

If we let the gov't get involved in the delivery and decision making aspect of healthcare then the gov't will soon be deeply involved in deciding what we can eat, drink, smoke, and do with our bodies.

The latter doesn't necessarily follow the former. Besides, you can vote, right?

.The "poor" suffer more from these diseases because of lifestyle choice, limited food options (percieved or real) and other problems that the wealthier in society don't have. Whose responsibility is it to provide for these "poor" people? What about freedom and personal responsibility?

They aren't lifestyle choices, they are necessities. If you don't have much money you can't afford good housing and decent quality food. And again, you're only free if the opportunities and choices are there, less money = fewer choices. Personal responsibility? We aren't only responsible for ourselves, our actions affect others.

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by Pwozzie

Worse than Carter in the approval ratings now.

Obama's approval rating falls to 59%
Obama's approval rating falls to 59% - North America, World - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk


Carters was a 34% in 1981....

and still Obama's AR is still better than George W's was.

always have to check your facts.

[Pwozzie]

Originally Posted by geochem1st

Obama's approval rating falls to 59%
Obama's approval rating falls to 59% - North America, World - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk


Carters was a 34% in 1981....

and still Obama's AR is still better than George W's was.

always have to check your facts.

In this point of his presidency (compared to Carter 6 months in). He'll be 34% by the 2010 elections.

[bildozr]

If he doesn't pick things up people will view him the same or worse than Bush.

[Sinmastah]

So whats the consensus of MLP members who oppose a universal healthcare system? Many? Why? It would save $$$ in the long run. I heard that the current healthcare system uses 200billion in paperwork alone, and making it a single system, would eliminate almost all of that.

[KP Willits]

Originally Posted by Sinmastah

So whats the consensus of MLP members who oppose a universal healthcare system? Many? Why? It would save $$$ in the long run. I heard that the current healthcare system uses 200billion in paperwork alone, and making it a single system, would eliminate almost all of that.

Considering how well Medicare runs... it should be really great.