Vintage Guitar-what is vintage???

[Blues4U]

I am getting tired of seeing eBay auctions saying "Vintage 1994 American Strat"

Come on, there needs to be some sort of standard to being a Vintage guitar.

How about we say it must be at least 25 years old to call it a vintage anything??

[lp_junkie]

Vintage is generally 30 or more years old, for LP's some only consider the 50's models vintage.

There is a big difference between old crap and vintage- to be vintage it must have collector interest and demand.

[blakem]

Originally Posted by lp_junkie

Vintage is generally 30 or more years old, for LP's some only consider the 50's models vintage.

There is a big difference between old crap and vintage- to be vintage it must have collector interest and demand.

Thats true...yet Norlin Gibson LP's do not get to count as Vintage and mine is 39 years old..seems wrong to me....

[lp_junkie]

but the Norlins are starting to increase in resale value.........

[blakem]

Originally Posted by lp_junkie

but the Norlins are starting to increase in resale value.........

That is true... I LOVE mine....

[kernelofwisdom]

Norlins get a bum rap. There are some awesome Norlins out there.

[b-squared]

I think most purists consider 'Vintage' Strats to be Pre-CBS...50's through 1964 1/2...

BB

[Blues4U]

I don't even care about the Gibson and Fender Purist. I just think it should be at least slightly OLD to be called a vintage anything.

Hard core collectors consider vintage guitars to be guitars from the so called golden era. But I think guitars from the 60's and even to 70's could be considered Vintage from some buyers and sellers-But come on, a 94 strat.

While we are on the subject I am also getting tired of seeing auctions saying "Gibson SG or Les Paul" only to open it up and see it's a damn Epiphone. Same thing happens with Fender and Squire.

I think if you list a guitar as a Gibson and it is actually an Epiphone, you should be allowed to be kicked in the crotch by every person that opened the damn thing thinking it was actually a real Gibson!!!!

Ok, Rant over----

[LongBeach]

doesnt an item only have to be 20 years old to be considered an antique?

[lp_junkie]

50 years to be antique, 20 years is just old.

[AXE]

I'm damn near antique.

[zontar]

Originally Posted by lp_junkie

Vintage is generally 30 or more years old, for LP's some only consider the 50's models vintage.

There is a big difference between old crap and vintage- to be vintage it must have collector interest and demand.

Ditto.

[River]

Antique <> vintage. Antique is based on age. It depends on if you're talking furniture, cars, etc. what the break-point is. For cars, it's 20 years.

Vintage essentially refers to a peak of quality no longer being manufactured. Doesn't necessarily mean old. My research indicates that among Gibson guitar aficionados, only the '50's are vintage. I'm sure in 20 years or so there will be other vintage Gibons - early '90's come to mind - but there will never be as rare a vintage as the '50's vintage.

[diceman]

The Gibson Les Paul cutoff is pretty easy for me to understand.

Fender gives me some troubles. "Pre CBS" doesn't MEAN anything, as there weren't any immediate major changes. I'm working on picking up a few pre '68 Fenders - which is where the cutoff is for me. Non Strats and Teles are still somewhat affordable... My '65 Jag was $1500, my '64 MusicMaster was $550 (got it today!). I'm looking for Duo-Sonics and Mustangs right now... Old Fender Nitro feels Sooooo good in my hands!

[Cookie-boy]

Originally Posted by b-squared

I think most purists consider 'Vintage' Strats to be Pre-CBS...50's through 1964 1/2...

BB

You are right there BB, but nobody, including George Gruhn, will convince me a 1968 original Olympic white Strat' ain't vintage.

[gravmy0]

Originally Posted by lp_junkie

50 years to be antique, 20 years is just old.

agreed my 84' Tokai Goldstar Strat will be 25 this year and I still don't think it's "vintage"

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by blakem

Thats true...yet Norlin Gibson LP's do not get to count as Vintage and mine is 39 years old..seems wrong to me....

I get to sound all "snobby."

I think the term "vintage" should be about the characteristics of the guitar at the time it was made.

The word "vintage" comes from wine, where there's good years for wine and not good years for wine. Say, for example that 1924 was THE best year for wine from the vineyards of Chateau De Pussycat. The rainfall was perfect, the soil conditions were perfect, the weather conditions were perfect, and out of that came the perfect grapes to make the perfect wine. That wine of that vintage is the most expensive wine ever. Legends spring up about how awesome this wine is- people would KILL for a bottle of 1924 Chateau De Pussycat. Now, let's say that 1925 was one of the SHITTIEST years for wine to come out of the vineyards of Chateau De Pussycat. It barely rained, the days were short and the nights were long, and this volcanic eruption dumped clay all over the ground- but they were still able to get grapes and made some really shitty wine. No one that has any idea about wine wants a bottle of the shitty wine. Even though it came from the year right after the 'best wine evAr,' and it's almost as old as the 'best wine evAr,' it was made in the same winery, by the same nekkid grape stomping chick... Even "aging" doesn't change the fact that it's shitty wine.

The difference with guitars is that the bottle of shitty wine will not become nearly as desired and fabled as the 1924- mainly because of it's age proximity to the year 1924 and it's relative rarity, and because middle aged guys have kids out of the house and can afford to have the toys they couldn't afford to have back then.

I'm not saying every Norlin is bad. I'm also not saying that the perceived lack of "quality" of isn't overstated. I'm ALSO not saying you can't have an awesome Norlin guitar. However, I'm also not saying you can't fall in love with a piece of crap. I just happen to be of the belief that the traits that Norlin era instruments display are generally not considered "desirable" by people. The big ol' paddle headstocks are not appealing to me, the skinny necks are not desirable to me. The 10-12 pound guitars are not desirable to me. The maple necks are not desirable to me. The plastic-y feeling finish is not desirable to me. Clownbursts are not desirable to me. The idea of a 3 piece body plus a 3 piece mismatched top is not desirable to me... I understand there are people that do find those things "cool," and I'm not one of them.

It's not excuses why I think 1950s LPs are "the bestest," or a reason to look down my nose at 70s guitars. I've owned more than a dozen Norlin instruments, I currently gig with 2, and I only have one 1950s instrument left- and it's a Frankenstein "player" to boot... When I was a kid, I could afford a "player" 50s Jr or a 70s Deluxe- both around the same price (or a Standard for a hundred bucks more). I liked the playablity and the feel of the 50s guitars, but I liked having 2 pickups. I think the qualities that I objectively look for in a guitar are more served by a 50s-like guitar. Generally speaking- I think the average Historic guitar would be "better" than the average Norlin guitars. I think the average post 2002 Gibson USA 50s-necked Standards are "better" than the average Norlin, in terms of appearance and feel.

I've had Norlin guitars that I really loved, but the second I found something better- they were on the trading block. There are a couple of those that I have some fond memories of, and some I vaguely wish I had back (my first LP was a 75 Deluxe that had a gorgeous paint job. Sounded like shit, felt like it was made of plastic. But the color on that thing is still my favorite.). Right now, my two main basses are Norlins... But I don't really consider them "vintage."

If you have a great Norlin, and it really, genuinely is your soul-mate of a guitar- AWESOME! However, if your lust for a guitar is predicated on it being 39 years old... it's whatever you want it to be... I guess... But I don't call it "vintage."

[Phil47uk]

Vintage is anything there isn't a great deal off and that people get fixations on.
It's all mostly hype. For instance, you couldn't give away Norlin Les Paul's in the mid 90's. I sold one for £350. Then all of a sudden someone is seen playing one and the masses crap their pants trying get hold of one.. The next thing you know is that they are suddenly vintage and fetching silly money.
In fact I found the old pick up covers for one of my old Norlins in my garden shed a couple of years back.. I stuck them on E-bay and some silly bugger payed £85 for them. Same with an old blue back Vox speaker I had in the cupboard. I put that on E-bay too and a Japanese guy drove 147 miles for London and paid me £150 cash.
I'm gonna have to delve deeper into that old cupboard I think.

The truth is that I have had a 1968 Custom and a 1972 Custom and old Humph my 2003 R0 blows nine bells of crap out of both of them. There are great, good and mediocre guitars from all areas including originals and you just have to be lucky in weeding out the wheat from the chaff.

Another myth is that all vintage stuff was better than modern stuff.. Again a myth, as most vintage amps were always blowing and having to be repaired.
The only saving grace for vintage being that you could usualy do minor repairs yourself, like re soldering pots etc.. Ever tried that on a red knob Twin. One of the reasons I use a bog standard 59 bassman.
Great tone and less crap to go wrong. None of that channel switching etc.

I also noticed that original Tonebenders are fetching big money.. I had one of the first which cost me £12 new. They were novel in their day, but compared to something like a FD2 overdrive pedal, they sound like cheese graters on steroids.
Over the decades I have owned shit loads of what people would now call vintage gear. Original pre CBs Fenders. Old 335's and Les Paul's. Some of them very nice guitars indeed, but **** me.. let's keep things in perspective.. They were just guitars.. Nothing supernatural. Hype, myths and all sort of shit abounds when it comes to talking old gear.
OK, great investments I suppose .. Providing you know what's going to fetch money and what isn't, but unfortunately back then they didn't give out crystal balls with ever guitar.

Here's an old pic with me and an original 1957 Gretsch 6120 I picked up for then £450.... Lovely old guitar, but totaly impracticle on the gig scene, for the simple reason it howled, fed back and was a total bastard to intonate and keep in tune. Note the rare white Dynosonic P/U covers as opposed to the black. Something that Gretsch did back then when they ran out of black plastic.



And here's an old 68 LP Custom. My eldest son in that pic is now 37.

[Blues4U]

Phil, you damn ex hippie, lol.

I couldn't agree with you more about people thinking that so called vintage guitars have sort of voodoo going on.

I also agree about Norlins as far as what they were compared to what you can get today. I graduated high school in 1982 and I really want a 30th anniversary gold top from that same year but I know I can get a much better guitar for the money these days.

I can't afford early 60's Fenders but I sure like the way they felt, played and sounded so I have modern incarnations of them that are most likely better guitars and a lot less expensive.

People rag on Gary Moore for selling his burst for a million bucks-****, he could have a dozon custom made, great guitars that did everything his Greeny Burst did and still have over 900 grand in the bank. Not to mention, Gary Moore has never really broken out here in the U.S. and for some reason, that seems to be where all the money is when it comes to pop music-not trying to offend anybody but it seems like guys like Moore spend their entire career plugging away to make their fortune when Hannah Montana can make the same amount of money in two years.

There is nothing I have besides my wife and kids that I won't sell for a million bucks-I am pretty sure I will sell you everything I own for a million bucks now that my 401K is in the shitter, lol.

I could have more money than sense and I would have new guitars built from the best tone woods by the best luthiers before I would spend a hundred grand on what was still a massed produced instrument.

You can spend 5 grand US and have as good a guitar with as good of pickups as were ever made. The rest is just fluff.

5 grand is still a lot of jack for most people but I believe that for 5 grand I can get as good of a guitar as has ever been made-