Of Cars and Men.

[TheNamesTy]

So here I am, angrily contemplating the idea of having to drop $1000 dollars worth of repairs in a damn '95 Geo Prizm, the bottom end version none the less. So, naturally, I end up on Craigslist to see what I can scrounge up for a few grand (trying to progressively upgrade until I hit a dream classic that needs work). Go figure I stumble across my dream car - a 1964 Chevy Corvair Monza convertible (don't laugh). On top of that it is magically priced $1000, but it needs major restoration to be considered pretty and probably drivable. Literally, the first words that came out of my poor college student mouth was "Well, I'm boned."

Someone talk some sense into me to do the sensible thing and pay to repair the daily driver Prizm.

Oh yeah there's a poll with this. To buy or Not to buy.

If you guys want I can post the CL ad so you can see it in all of its misery. I didn't post the ad in this post because I don't want to be told I'm in the wrong section for that.

-Ty

[EnjoGuitar]

Originally Posted by TheNamesTy

Someone talk some sense into me to do the sensible thing and pay to repair the daily driver Prizm.

Looks like you've already got your answer there, dude.

[Luckynumber3]

Originally Posted by TheNamesTy

'95 Geo Prizm,

Okay okay...

I see what you are getting at. On one hand, you can spend just $1000 and have your Geo working again. Chances are that nobody will screw with your car because it is a geo, so you can commute with it without being ripped off, and it probably is decent enough to get form point a to point b.

On the other hand, you are spending $1000 to fix a Geo Prizm.

The other choice is to restore your dream car, a corvair. This sounds pretty good, but I am guessing there would be alot more money involved in restoring it, along with lots of time.


So, either you pay $1000 to keep your current ride functioning, and it will be fixed relatively instantly, or you just pocket the $1000 and use it and a bunch of other money to fix your dream car, and get your driver back someday in the future.

So...

1. About how much would it cost to restore the corvair?
2. How long would it take to restore the corvair? (I cannot see either 1 or 2, so I don't know)
3. When do you need your car back by? It sounds like you wont just be able to buy and drive the corvair to class, so if you don't have a backup car, things could get messy...
4. What condition is your Geo in?

I'd specifically look at number 4. If all you need to do is spend $1000 to keep your Geo running for years to come (this is assuming it has been serviced decently and is in fairly good shape) and you are pretty cash strapped (sound slike you are), i'd fix the Geo. On the other hand, if you have enough money and patience to restore the Corvair and use it for years to come (you would probably rebuilt it and keep it for a long time since it is your dream car) and wont suffer any by not having a car to drive immediately, it would probably be best just to invest in your dream.

So, it depends on the specifics, but i'd be leaning towards fixing the Geo, assuming it only does need $1000 to last you several more years, and that you'd have to invest alot of tiem and money into the corvair.

[Luckynumber3]

OH DANG...

1995 geo prizm

kelley blue book retail $2,225–$2,400

and from edmunds...

Used TMV from $1,998

So, you'd be spending half the vlaue of the car to fix it up. I guess the questions in the last post still stands: is your car in otherwise good condition, and how much would it cost you think to fix that corvair?

I guess you could always just spend the $1000 to fix your Geo, and then have MTV pimp your ride.

Pimp my ride - Corolla - YouTube

Pimp my ride - Corolla - YouTube

edit: wikipedia does seem to indicate that it was basically a toyota corolla. Toyotas have a pretty darn good reputation, and if it is anything like it (despite the Geo tag) and in pretty good condition, I think things could be somewhat good.

[bertzie]

Who says you can't have both?

[redcoats1976]

it depends on how rusty the corvair is,motors can be rebuilt,upholstery can be replaced,etc.but rust never sleeps.

[Cruznolfart]

In my experience, the only people who make out on auto restos are the ones who are paid to do the work. You NEVER make your money back on a resto.(Even if you've no plans to sell it, you'll spend much more than it will be worth to anyone but you.) So, if you're financially independent, go for it; do the Corvair. If your budget dictates some of the terms of your life to you, do the practical, sensible thing.

[Caleb]

Cars and men are never an inexpensive combination, in my experience.

[markerdown]

The cost of a restoration is a lot more than you think. I've done several classic muscle cars and have one in progress. It never ends with these cars!

Good thing mine aren't my daily drivers!! I take my time, and do it as my hobby. It can take years if you don't have deep pockets.

I keep telling the mrs...please call Chip Foose!!!

Something to think about: The cost to repair your prism opposed to what the car is worth vs the cost of a newer dependable vehicle.

It all comes down to what you need, what you want and what you can afford.

[Hack]

Stay clear of both.

[SKATTERBRANE]

As long as you know a REAL nut and bolt restoration (making the car even better than factory new) would cost between $10K-$20K depending on how much you do yourself, then go for it.

What most people car a "restoration" is nothing more than a practical refurbish, getting everything in working order and fairly presentable.

[Dr.Distortion]

Is the Corvair drivable?
If not... Don't get it....

[Donnie]

Go back to looking for another car. something that gets great gas mileage.

[SKATTERBRANE]

Originally Posted by Cruznolfart

In my experience, the only people who make out on auto restos are the ones who are paid to do the work. You NEVER make your money back on a resto.(Even if you've no plans to sell it, you'll spend much more than it will be worth to anyone but you.) So, if you're financially independent, go for it; do the Corvair. If your budget dictates some of the terms of your life to you, do the practical, sensible thing.

Having restored dozens and doznes of cars, I can attest to this, Even doing EVERYTHING except machining, chrome and seat upholstery, my body off frame, every nut and bolt restorations caused me to lose between $10K and 20K on each car. Even if I got a RUST FREE (all my cars were) car for free, the restoration cost always was more than the car was worth. This included (all from 1955-1972) Mustangs, Buicks off all kinds, including Rivieras and Gran Sports, Chevelle SS, etc, the ONLY cars I ever came out ahead on were 1956 and 1957 Thunderbirds.

The ONLY people who make money truly restoring a car are the people you take YOUR car to, to have done. They get paid regardless what the car is worth.

Now the people who can make money are the ones who buy a decent car for a great price that really only needs some superfical cleaning and a few repairs to flip (this is NOT a restoration, which requires every last nut and bolt to be turned, the entire dash taken apart, body off frame, etc.)

My dad was such a guy, who bought nice old cars, cleaned them up and flipped them.

Also I have noticed some people make money by buying a 1960s Ford, having a cheap red paint job and a cheap grey upholstery job and flipping it. Because the average person is dazzled by a red paint job no matter how poorly it is done.

To properly paint a car to RESTORE IT, it has to be taken completely apart, doors off, etc and a minimum of $10K to do this. Just the paint itself can cost $1K-$3K (yes just the liquid primer and paint) for a complete restoration.

[markerdown]

Rule of thumb that I learned from buying old cars and fixing them up:

Think BOAT. aka, "break out another thousand"....make sure you have a lot of disposable income

BTW, same rule applies for old motorcycle restorations too

[skingy]

Originally Posted by markerdown

Something to think about: The cost to repair your prism opposed to what the car is worth vs the cost of a newer dependable vehicle.

this. put that $1k towards a newer, more reliable vehicle and be done with it. there's no way (as a college student) i'd look for a restoration car, and an even smaller chance i'd put half the value in my current ride for repairs. besides - when you're ready (time & money), another restoration project will pop up.

[papajim]

A waste of time and money for some, but to us, it is a passion







It's a 1979 Pontiac Fire Arrow by the way. The reason I am restoring her is because she's a gift from my dad when I graduated from college.

[SKATTERBRANE]

The sensible thing would be to junk the Prizm, skip the corvair, and look for a well maintained car being sold by an adult private party. Look for a car that may be a bit larger (most people seek out small fuel efficient cars, so larger cars of decent quality can be had cheaply)

For example I have a 1999 Oldsmobile Aurora (my 4th) and I bought it for $5K with 33,000 miles on it. It gets 22 mpg around town, 27 on the freeway at 80mph. It gives me NO TROUBLE, it is fast, it is comfortable, Bose Stereo, 12 CD changer, sun/moonroof, heated sets, full power options, built-in garage door opener, leather, V8, A/C, just about every option offered in 1999. I now have put another 30K trouble free miles on it and when it reaches 80 or 90K I will sell it (just as I have the other three) and buy another with lower miles on it. So far I have made money on every one. These were $38K new. They are mini-Cadillacs.

[TheNamesTy]

Originally Posted by markerdown

The cost of a restoration is a lot more than you think. I've done several classic muscle cars and have one in progress. It never ends with these cars!

Good thing mine aren't my daily drivers!! I take my time, and do it as my hobby. It can take years if you don't have deep pockets.

I keep telling the mrs...please call Chip Foose!!!

Something to think about: The cost to repair your prism opposed to what the car is worth vs the cost of a newer dependable vehicle.

It all comes down to what you need, what you want and what you can afford.

I used to be really big in the cars, so I've seen the cost of a total restoration, but I guess that would be done over many many years.

Main concern would just be getting it running well through college. And I have a buddy who is a family of car guys and love working on anything old they can get their hands on. He's driven for the past 4 years a '65 barracuda with a slant six in all it's primer, not quite past the get it running stage glory.

And that's exactly what I've been thinking about, I don't feel like dropping half of the value on a Prizm. On top of that the clutch is starting to feel a little finnicky. Nothing seriously bad, just obviously not at the beginning of the clutch's life.

Thanks for weighing in everyone! Keep opinions coming.

-Ty

[cherokee]

Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE

Having restored dozens and doznes of cars, I can attest to this, Even doing EVERYTHING except machining, chrome and seat upholstery, my body off frame, every nut and bolt restorations caused me to lose between $10K and 20K on each car. Even if I got a RUST FREE (all my cars were) car for free, the restoration cost always was more than the car was worth. This included (all from 1955-1972) Mustangs, Buicks off all kinds, including Rivieras and Gran Sports, Chevelle SS, etc, the ONLY cars I ever came out ahead on were 1956 and 1957 Thunderbirds.

The ONLY people who make money truly restoring a car are the people you take YOUR car to, to have done. They get paid regardless what the car is worth.

Now the people who can make money are the ones who buy a decent car for a great price that really only needs some superfical cleaning and a few repairs to flip (this is NOT a restoration, which requires every last nut and bolt to be turned, the entire dash taken apart, body off frame, etc.)

My dad was such a guy, who bought nice old cars, cleaned them up and flipped them.

Also I have noticed some people make money by buying a 1960s Ford, having a cheap red paint job and a cheap grey upholstery job and flipping it. Because the average person is dazzled by a red paint job no matter how poorly it is done.

To properly paint a car to RESTORE IT, it has to be taken completely apart, doors off, etc and a minimum of $10K to do this. Just the paint itself can cost $1K-$3K (yes just the liquid primer and paint) for a complete restoration.

You and I are from the same mold...I am 47 now and have been doing this for almost 30 years. The list I have done is very long, and I lost money on everyone that I did...even during the boom years. Currently I have a 67 Triumph GT6 that is not going anywhere, but the Opel GT's Fiats and such are all going away...the muscle cars have already found new homes.

For the OP you may love cars now and fixing them up because you just like to do it is just fine....like the guy with the fire arrow...more power to you. But you have to be in the position to do that...and that means a place and the time as well as the cash....rule of thumb is figure out what you think it will cost to restore then tripple it.

Go with the suggestion....if $1000 is all you got, it will be hard to find a good car for that kind of money....depending on the type of repair your geo needs I may do that.

I may have missed it but what kind of repairs is your existing car needing....if you are a budding wrench jocky you could do the repairs yourself and save some cash.

[River]

Originally Posted by Hack

Stay clear of both.

Originally Posted by Dr.Distortion

Is the Corvair drivable?
If not... Don't get it....

These. But actually, even if it is running. 'Cause it likely won't be for long.

[cherokee]

Originally Posted by TheNamesTy

I used to be really big in the cars, so I've seen the cost of a total restoration, but I guess that would be done over many many years.

Main concern would just be getting it running well through college. And I have a buddy who is a family of car guys and love working on anything old they can get their hands on. He's driven for the past 4 years a '65 barracuda with a slant six in all it's primer, not quite past the get it running stage glory.

And that's exactly what I've been thinking about, I don't feel like dropping half of the value on a Prizm. On top of that the clutch is starting to feel a little finnicky. Nothing seriously bad, just obviously not at the beginning of the clutch's life.

Thanks for weighing in everyone! Keep opinions coming.

-Ty

Let me pipe in on this as well....you have a buddy...that gets sketchy. You need to know how to do it...all of it. Now I am not saying it can not be done, but I don't think it is the best move.

That all said sometimes you can get a lot of car for not much money...older cars in the middle of work are coming up for sale for very good prices....the current owners need to sell for cash on hand for this or that....the economy is not that great and for most these cars are toys. I have seen very good cars go for not much money that could be every day drivers with a little work...now that said it is an OLD CAR and having something like that as my only means to get somewhere is not the best idea....but then you can say the same about just about any sub $2000 car no matter the year.

If your friends are very good with cars take them with you to inspect the car, or take a corvair guy, it could well be worth the $50 it will cost for a corvair club guy to give it a once over.....you could get lucky.

[TheNamesTy]

Cherokee,

I'm good with my hands and probably could fix some of the issues, but I'm also really bad about finding time to work on something that I'm just not interested in. The Corvair would be a ton of fun to work on. The Geo Prizm, well that'd be about as much fun to work on as it is to drive. I'm just a little nervous if I spend that money that the Geo may have something new and expensive, like needing a new clutch.

[sonar1]

Originally Posted by TheNamesTy

...Main concern would just be getting it running well through college...

A '64 Corvair as reliable transportation?

Surely you jest.


When it breaks you'll be waiting maybe a couple weeks for parts to come from the Midwest or something to get running again, not just going to get the part anywhere like with a current (built in the Common Era) car.

[SKATTERBRANE]

Yes, personally I would not take all the Corvairs ever made for free. (If I had to keep them) I owned ONE before.

[lariat]

A '95 Geo is probably going to require even more repairs shortly after you have the $1000 worth of work done to it. And the Corvair sounds like even more of a money pit.

I've restored a couple of old cars, and it's never about being able to afford BUYING the car - it's about being able to afford OWNING the car.
If you only have $1000, stay far, far away from the Corvair.

And before you put the money in the Geo (which would be the lesser of these two evils), see if you can instead use the $1000 as a down payment on a new or almost new Kia or Hundai. (Something that has a warranty.)

[MineGoesTo11]

I dreamt last night I was driving around my hometown in an '87 Sierra ..

I've never even owned a Sierra .. It may be a sign.. Don't buy the corvair?

[cherokee]

Originally Posted by TheNamesTy

Cherokee,

I'm good with my hands and probably could fix some of the issues, but I'm also really bad about finding time to work on something that I'm just not interested in. The Corvair would be a ton of fun to work on. The Geo Prizm, well that'd be about as much fun to work on as it is to drive. I'm just a little nervous if I spend that money that the Geo may have something new and expensive, like needing a new clutch.

Right now you need something that can get you from point A to point B. And like others have said both of these could be out. Point I was trying to make is you can daily in an old car....but it is not a $1000 old car.

If you only have one car it needs to be an appliance, something like a washing machine that will just work.

But I will stand by my comments that there are some very good deals out there in the "classic" car market right now....not quite $1000 good, but good, and you could come across something with a soul for not much more.

If between these two choices this looks like it could be one of those life lessons....personally when I was 20 something I would have bought the corvair and suffered. Sometimes the pain is worth it....up to you to decide.

BTW I like corvairs.

[cherokee]

Originally Posted by TheNamesTy

Cherokee,

I'm good with my hands and probably could fix some of the issues, but I'm also really bad about finding time to work on something that I'm just not interested in. The Corvair would be a ton of fun to work on. The Geo Prizm, well that'd be about as much fun to work on as it is to drive. I'm just a little nervous if I spend that money that the Geo may have something new and expensive, like needing a new clutch.

Right now you need something that can get you from point A to point B. And like others have said both of these could be out. Point I was trying to make is you can daily in an old car....but it is not a $1000 old car.

If you only have one car it needs to be an appliance, something like a washing machine that will just work.

But I will stand by my comments that there are some very good deals out there in the "classic" car market right now....not quite $1000 good, but good, and you could come across something with a soul for not much more.

If between these two choices this looks like it could be one of those life lessons....personally when I was 20 something I would have bought the corvair and suffered. Sometimes the pain is worth it....up to you to decide.

As you can likely tell I am wishy washy on this, bad timing for me on a subject like this as I am selling off most of my toys...for one reason you need to take to heart...I can't work on them anymore...and they all always need work.

BTW I like corvairs.

[RedSkwirrell]

I voted Prizm.
However it has to be said that I have no idea whatsoever what the hell that is or what y'all are talkin' about.