Who Killed American Unions?

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by KP

I spent 26 years working for the Federal government. The "union" representing us only had power to take grievances to management and nothing more. We had no bargaining rights and Congress is the only entity who decided if we got a pay raise. Within the Federal pay system there are 10 steps in each GS pay grade and those were awarded for seniority. We also paid in to our own retirement system and our retirement pay was computed from our high 3 average. At age 55 and 30 years service you are entitled to 65% of your pay (excluding overtime and any special pay). The "union" also had nothing to do with that. I was quite happy with the union which I was not forced to pay into. There was no union membership requirement to work for the Feds.

Looks like you got what you paid for, a worthless union.

[Readyaimfire]

I am a member of the ILWU, one of the last "true" unions. A union that promotes brotherhood amongst all workers despite racial, political, or religious differences. We all stand together for one common goal. If anyone would like to truly learn about unions, google Harry Bridges. He was a true pioneer that helped pave the way for blue collar workers everywhere. I owe alot to him and to my union. I have stood on the line with my brothers and sisters to fight against the many injustices the average worker faces on a daily basis. A true union doesn't just cash your check and fight over wages. We support the local community, hold charitable events, scholarship funds, provide holiday meals to families in need, and hold toy drives at our monthly meetings for the underprivleged children in our community. We mke a very nice wage, but our local businesses and economy benefit from that wage. In no way, shape, or form am I saying that unions are perfect, But in my opinion the benefits far out way the negatives. Just my 2cents

[exPFCWintergreen]

Someone broke their promise to leave, I see.

[bertzie]

Originally Posted by ALZ

ALL HAIL SCOTT WALKER , REVOTED IN ! the dude stood his ground and the people that voted him 1st did vote him back in , from what i hear unions will bankrupt every state if not stopped now ? so anythusth in that huh ? i hear big talk , back that shit up with facts thatunions are good ? i hear they suck and fukk up busness's ? so for a second imagine you own a busness with 25 workers , now do you like UNIONS ? i bet not ? , lets here some facts no bullshit opinions huh ? i think SCOTT WALKER KICKED ASS, so as an independent voter why should i have voted him out ? FACTS PLEASE ! see ya , ALZ

So if Wisconsin was so hard up for debt that Scotty had to go killing the unions, why did he give hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks to his rich buddies? You wouldn't ask for a pay cut to pay your mortgage would you?

[Caoimhin]

I'm neutral when it comes to unions. I absolutely hate at the politics involved with them. I work 12 hour nights with only 4 10minute breaks in 100+ degree shop with a college degree and make less than a union employe and honestly working in those conditions will make you miss a union. If I I could form a union that just looks out for the worker.. no more, no less.. no strings attached, I would. Unions and corporations need some reconstruction.

[tmb1958]

american unions killed themselves... unicide

[Caleb]

Eh. All I know is that I wouldn't trust my union leadership with a potato gun.

[Tone deaf]

Originally Posted by Torren61

Union made?

Everybody knows that the best Rootbeer is Captain Eli's (non-untion shop)...

[Tone deaf]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

You DO realize you can work hard, be grateful for your job AND be a part of a union, right?

From my perspective, union membership and "organized crime/labor" are two different things. Many members don't have much of a choice about joining. Want to work? Got to do this... Similarly, it would be hard to blame members for not availing themselves of the readily available benefits of membership - even when those benefits are disproportionate to what are available to nonmembers. That's life.

My beef is with "organized crime/labor" is 1) the overall mismanagement of unions and abuse of monopolistic powers, 2) the misappropriation, misuse and abuse of membership dues (two of the nicest buildings in DC are union headquarters and unions are some of the biggest political donors on the planet), 3) the insane moral relevancy that allows violent intimidation and retribution to be fundamental tenants of organized labor, and 4) hypocritical, federal regulation of unions vs industry. Other than that, I'm cool with them.

Another side note: in addition to my two friends who narrowly escaped death at the hands of the Teamsters (Dupont Plaza Hotel fire), another buddy, who owned a nonunion shop, used to wear a Second Chance Kevlar vest to work everyday for protection from the NMU (national maritime union), who's members had taken many shots at his boats. One of his employees was in fact hit by one of those shots.

[Tone deaf]

Originally Posted by KR88

If I I could form a union that just looks out for the worker.. no more, no less.. no strings attached...

If only pigs could fly. Unions like that, unicorns, Big Foot and socialist utopias all exist in the same place, Fantasyland.

It will be impossible until someone figures out a way to form and operate a union with human beings involved.

[SCRUBS]

Originally Posted by Howard2k

That is what I thought.

Is there anyone here who works in a union where promotion is NOT based on seniority?

Yep!

[CenCalPlayer]

Originally Posted by Readyaimfire

I am a member of the ILWU, one of the last "true" unions. A union that promotes brotherhood amongst all workers despite racial, political, or religious differences. We all stand together for one common goal. If anyone would like to truly learn about unions, google Harry Bridges. He was a true pioneer that helped pave the way for blue collar workers everywhere. I owe alot to him and to my union. I have stood on the line with my brothers and sisters to fight against the many injustices the average worker faces on a daily basis. A true union doesn't just cash your check and fight over wages. We support the local community, hold charitable events, scholarship funds, provide holiday meals to families in need, and hold toy drives at our monthly meetings for the underprivleged children in our community. We mke a very nice wage, but our local businesses and economy benefit from that wage. In no way, shape, or form am I saying that unions are perfect, But in my opinion the benefits far out way the negatives. Just my 2cents

As long at all that comes with VOLUNTARY membership, I'm 100% with you. I voluntarily do all the good things you just pointed out and no union was necessary. My Rotary club does this stuff, church does this stuff, and all kinds of other community organizations do this kind of stuff. The big difference is union members want "forced" inclusion of people in there group where the others want volunteer inclusion of people in their groups.

As a business owner I don't benefit from your union nor will I ever benefit from your union. That's because I am not suppose to benefit from your union, your union is supposed to benefit from your union. That's what it's designed for. All the altruistic stuff is a smoke screen, propaganda, ad campaign trying to sell people on the union, nothing more, and no different than a business advertising to get your to buy their product. The big difference is unions want to "force" people to take what they are selling which is "protection" from what and who the union says is out to get you.

[AXE]

Originally Posted by Howard2k

That is what I thought.

Is there anyone here who works in a union where promotion is NOT based on seniority?

I get supervisory positions in jurisdictions other than my own all the time.

I'm THAT good!

Being gawgeous and well spoken doesn't hurt either.

I have to travel for my work.

6 / 7 day weeks 58 to 84 hour weeks.

Gotta go where the money is.

And I usually get in on a referral from the local hall.

[Torren61]

If Jesus were alive today, he'd be in a union. Unionism is about promoting equality and love. It's about helping the common working man so he can make a livable wage and have health care and a pension when he gets too old to work any longer. What's wrong with that? Why is that such a problem with you right-wing evangelical so-called "christians"?

[CenCalPlayer]

Originally Posted by Torren61

If Jesus were alive today, he'd be in a union. Unionism is about promoting equality and love. It's about helping the common working man so he can make a livable wage and have health care and a pension when he gets too old to work any longer. What's wrong with that? Why is that such a problem with you right-wing evangelical so-called "christians"?

Bull Shit! Unions are about feathering the pocketbook of the union. That is what they are designed for, nothing else. You sound like a Goebbels propaganda line for 1930's Germany with this crap...

[Torren61]

Originally Posted by CenCalPlayer

Bull Shit! Unions are about feathering the pocketbook of the union. That is what they are designed for, nothing else. You sound like a Goebbels propaganda line for 1930's Germany with this crap...

Nunt uh.

[BillB1960]

Originally Posted by Readyaimfire

I am a member of the ILWU, one of the last "true" unions. A union that promotes brotherhood amongst all workers despite racial, political, or religious differences. We all stand together for one common goal. If anyone would like to truly learn about unions, google Harry Bridges. He was a true pioneer that helped pave the way for blue collar workers everywhere. I owe alot to him and to my union. I have stood on the line with my brothers and sisters to fight against the many injustices the average worker faces on a daily basis. A true union doesn't just cash your check and fight over wages. We support the local community, hold charitable events, scholarship funds, provide holiday meals to families in need, and hold toy drives at our monthly meetings for the underprivleged children in our community. We mke a very nice wage, but our local businesses and economy benefit from that wage. In no way, shape, or form am I saying that unions are perfect, But in my opinion the benefits far out way the negatives. Just my 2cents

ILWU Violence - CNN iReport

Hundreds of Longshoremen stormed the Port of Longview early Thursday, overpowered and held security guards, damaged railroad cars, and dumped grain that is the center of a labor dispute, said Longview Police Chief Jim Duscha.

Six guards were held hostage for a couple of hours after 500 or more Longshoremen broke down gates about 4:30 a.m. and smashed windows in the guard shack, he said.

[Joeydego]

Originally Posted by CenCalPlayer

Bull Shit! Unions are about feathering the pocketbook of the union. That is what they are designed for, nothing else. You sound like a Goebbels propaganda line for 1930's Germany with this crap...

For my 44 bucks a month, I get my contract negotiated, benefits administered, grievances represented and a HOST of other services. I've PERSONALLY told my union president I really don't give a damn if they order pizza or filet mignon at the delegates meetings. As long as my services are there, I'm overjoyed.

[Joeydego]

Originally Posted by Torren61

If Jesus were alive today, he'd be in a union. Unionism is about promoting equality and love. It's about helping the common working man so he can make a livable wage and have health care and a pension when he gets too old to work any longer. What's wrong with that? Why is that such a problem with you right-wing evangelical so-called "christians"?

he'd be handling snakes, too.

[Kashmir]

Originally Posted by CenCalPlayer

Bull Shit! Unions are about feathering the pocketbook of the union. That is what they are designed for, nothing else. You sound like a Goebbels propaganda line for 1930's Germany with this crap...

That's quite the generalization. Sure, it happens, just like it happens in many major corporations and even organized religions. But just as the controversial, power hungry religious organization, and the fact that its followers are generally good people anyway, unions are there for the common good of the people. Many over the years have had poor leadership, but the basic idea has been good and useful. Your statement is just like saying, "Corporations are about feathering the pocketbook of the leaders." True to an extent, but it doesn't mean the corporation should go away. I know many unions that have done great work in charity and the welfare of their communities. Union haters tend to ignore these things, and look away from the good points. Unions have more positive points than non.

[CenCalPlayer]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

For my 44 bucks a month, I get my contract negotiated, benefits administered, grievances represented and a HOST of other services. I've PERSONALLY told my union president I really don't give a damn if they order pizza or filet mignon at the delegates meetings. As long as my services are there, I'm overjoyed.

And as long as you Voluntarily can buy that service from the union I say 100% go for it and wish you the very best....

[markerdown]

IMO, Unions killed themselves with greed and corruption

[MineGoesTo11]

Speaking of Jesus, how did this thread survive? Must be a miracle.

[CenCalPlayer]

Originally Posted by Kashmir

That's quite the generalization. Sure, it happens, just like it happens in many major corporations and even organized religions. But just as the controversial, power hungry religious organization, and the fact that its followers are generally good people anyway, unions are there for the common good of the people. Many over the years have had poor leadership, but the basic idea has been good and useful. Your statement is just like saying, "Corporations are about feathering the pocketbook of the leaders." True to an extent, but it doesn't mean the corporation should go away. I know many unions that have done great work in charity and the welfare of their communities. Union haters tend to ignore these things, and look away from the good points. Unions have more positive points than non.

You are trying to claim a union is an altruistic organization with the common good of the community as its primary focus. That is a complete falsehood. A union is a self-serving entity, as are businesses, and nothing more. Both business and unions can and do community work, no arguing that point, but to say or infer that is the purpose of a union is not factual. I have no problem with private sector unions up to the point of forced membership, which I completely disagree with. Unions need to compete in the realm of ideas and service if they are to survive long term and without forced membership. Otherwise they will die out. Could unions be a stronger force in the market? Yes, but not on the path they are on today as people are increasing turned off by their motives, politics, and tactics. Again, not bashing unions here as I give credit where it is due to their past accomplishments (1900-1950), but reality is that the world and country have changed, continue to change, and the country today is pushing unions and the bad they have created for themselves and the country (1960-2012) out the door. The pension schemes put in place in the past are a good example of the bad as the models are fundamentally flawed, not sustainable, and the prevailing attitude of "gimme, gimme, gimme" the union members display turns those who are having to pay the bills off to the point they want the whole thing shut down. Unions are either going to have to change drastically or go the way of the dinosaurs...

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by CenCalPlayer

And as long as you Voluntarily can buy that service from the union I say 100% go for it and wish you the very best....

This is really the crux of the matter for me.

Forcing union membership in order to work strikes me as a form of extortion. I don't see voluntary unions as an issue, myself.

[moodyedge]

Sorry, I thought you said Onions.

[Readyaimfire]

Originally Posted by BillB1960

ILWU Violence - CNN iReport

This happened recently. But it wasnt like we were just storming around just for fun.Our international president Big Bob Was out there and got himself arrested to bring attention to the cause. Not sitting up in his office and letting the pee ons do the dirty work. Those workers in Longview asked for our support. There is no worker in our union that doesn't want to be in our union. There's 13,000 part time employees that are dying for the chance to become a Part of our union.

It's one of those things where I can tell u all these positive truths, but most of u already have preconceived notions of how unions are corrupt and unnecessary. So I won't try to change your opinion cuz its kind of pointless. All I know is for all my union has given me and will continue to Give to me in the future, I am thankful.

[BillB1960]

Originally Posted by Readyaimfire

This happened recently. But it wasnt like we were just storming around just for fun.Our international president Big Bob Was out there and got himself arrested to bring attention to the cause. Not sitting up in his office and letting the pee ons do the dirty work. Those workers in Longview asked for our support. There is no worker in our union that doesn't want to be in our union. There's 13,000 part time employees that are dying for the chance to become a Part of our union.

It's one of those things where I can tell u all these positive truths, but most of u already have preconceived notions of how unions are corrupt and unnecessary. So I won't try to change your opinion cuz its kind of pointless. All I know is for all my union has given me and will continue to Give to me in the future, I am thankful.

U r a fine spokesman 4 ur union.

[Rankelson]

Market Forces killed unions

here in Limey land

The emerging Asian economies

have made the market far more

competitive,Over regulation and strikes

would kill our economy,dead

I am all for unions in principal

but the Real world has no time for them

[Kashmir]

Unions are liked, usually by those who belong to one; and unions are disliked, usually by those who don't belong to one.

That about covers it all. Carry on!