run with me on this...

[snaredrum]

is the quietening down of venues, and amps, and all of it, having an effect on the quality and style of guitarist we see nowadays?

i was just watching some mid-classic period ('76 Destroyer tour, to be specific ) Kiss, and it occurred to me that most of Ace's style - not to do him down, he's a BIG influence on my style - but most if it live comes from sheer volume, and the effect that has on your touch, the amount of sustain, etc.

when i play gigs, the sound guy never wants a loud amp onstage, for example. i use pedals to emphasise sustain and gain, but they'd never make up for a cranked to 12 marshall, would they?

or am i being daft? it does happen...

[AXE]

You have a Hi Watt.

Your point is irrelevant.

[snaredrum]

Originally Posted by AXE

You have a Hi Watt.

Your point is irrelevant.

bullpoop, dear boy - that hiwatt won't sound as awesome at 2 as it will at 10

[snaredrum]

or WILL it? (insert twilight zone music here)

[Rich]

It's true and, while you can approximate the type of response you'd get with a cranked up loud amp by using a cranked up lower wattage amp, it's still not the same as when you're actually moving more air. I've thought about introducing a compressor in my effects loop but I'm not sure that's going to help that much as it's still just more compression, not air slamming the wood of the guitar.

[AXE]

A Hi Watt sounds good sitting in a corner. unplugged.

[snaredrum]

Originally Posted by AXE

A Hi Watt sounds good sitting in a corner. unplugged.

it does if the alternative is me playing guitar through it.

[Job-Job type Job]

I guess until you break into larger venues you gotta find what works. I think there's plenty of great tones out there in amp-land that still offer nice sustain and balls without deafening anyone.

But in the larger sense you're right. Nothing is quite like an amp cranked up to the sweet spot.

[sonar1]

Originally Posted by AXE

A Hi Watt sounds good sitting in a corner. unplugged.

For all the hype, I had a LTD RI Bassman that sounded terrible at ALL volume levels.

I had it at a studio once to punch in some solos and couldn't get a recordable sound out of the thing at ANY volume, low or high.

And I happen to like tweed amps very much.

In fact the other day I had my tweed SF1 Champ circuit screaming with my Les Paul in the living room (all 5 watts) and was having loads of fun getting feedback as if I were playing a stadium gig. Real thick. I had a friend in my Boogie so was using my "little" amp to get what I could.

Years ago we flapped our pantlegs with multiple Ampeg 4X12 and Boogie rigs until our ears rang, but I was getting that same density and wallop at much lower wattage in my living room and having just as much fun. Could've mic'd it up and gone on the road.

So my answer to the OP's question would be: no: THIS guitarist has never had any quality, loud or soft but as-if loud.

[Drew224]

Not only is it the cranked amps that give you more response, but when you play loud, you have to be able to control it. It's like you have to overcome your sheer volume just to rock out. Suddenly you're getting a different sound and you have to be able to harness that sustain, and it won't hide your mistakes. You have to be able to control feedback. Playing at a loud volume is more musical not just because of tube harmonics, but because you have to communicate better. It pushes you.

[Thumpalumpacus]

My volume certainly changes my approach to playing. I much prefer loud ... I like it when I can feel the guitar quiver in my hands.

There are times when a quiet tone is beautiful, but if I'm rockin' out, I want my amp sweating and I want some air moving.

[Skintaster]

Meh... I like "loud to a point, and (Depending on the amp) it can sound great, because at loud volume you're really playing the amp as much as the guitar, but I've played enough mediocre to bad sounding vintage amps at volume, to say I prefer the modern options we have.

There's a tradeoff between volume based harmonic content, and just too much noice and volume.

[wreckingball]

In quiet venue--you play amp...(sounds so-so)

In loud venue---amp plays you...(sound like dogshit) UNLESS!

You control loud amp and make use of feedback, sneering faces, angry club-owners, and naysayers...

Hell...Hendrix did it! Why can't you?

2- "Machine Gun" Jimi Hendrix - Fillmore East (1st Jan 1970) [Rare Footage] - YouTube

[bertzie]

You have to match the amp to the venue. There comes a point where people stop hearing the tone and start just hearing the volume.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but couldn't you also get sustain feedback from a PA system micing an amp?

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by bertzie

You have to match the amp to the venue. There comes a point where people stop hearing the tone and start just hearing the volume.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but couldn't you also get sustain feedback from a PA system micing an amp?

Not sure, actually. I can get decent controllable feedback at volume levels that aren't ridiculously high though. EQing helps in that regard.

[Drew224]

Originally Posted by bertzie

You have to match the amp to the venue. There comes a point where people stop hearing the tone and start just hearing the volume.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but couldn't you also get sustain feedback from a PA system micing an amp?

If you're cranking a smaller amp on stage, yes. Creating feedback is much easier with distortion and higher harmonic content, it's not entirely dependent on volume, when it solely comes down to volume, you could be getting feedback with overdrive/distortion that couldn't if playing clean.

I've gotten feedback at a really low volume. If I crank my muff into my amp I can get it just around 3 into the clean channel.

[bertzie]

Then, if you want the sound of a cranked tube amp, wouldn't the best option to get a smaller tube amp, and mic it when needed in larger venues? That is, of course, if you're only aiming to have one amp. That way, you can get the nice sound of a cranked tube amp, while still being able to play smaller venues.

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by bertzie

Then, if you want the sound of a cranked tube amp, wouldn't the best option to get a smaller tube amp, and mic it when needed in larger venues? That is, of course, if you're only aiming to have one amp. That way, you can get the nice sound of a cranked tube amp, while still being able to play smaller venues.

That's actually what a lot of people do these days. I have high wattage amps, but have often taken a 20 watt and just mic'd it. It works well for a lot of venues.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by snaredrum

..or am i being daft?...

Is this a trick question?

[Drew224]

Originally Posted by bertzie

Then, if you want the sound of a cranked tube amp, wouldn't the best option to get a smaller tube amp, and mic it when needed in larger venues? That is, of course, if you're only aiming to have one amp. That way, you can get the nice sound of a cranked tube amp, while still being able to play smaller venues.

The point is being a ****ing psychopath.

[Caleb]

What annoys me at small venues is how much time sound guys spend dialing in their 'drum sound'. They'll have the drummer spend several minutes banging the hell out of the bass drum in a place small enough that the drums probably don't even need to be miked. The end result being you don't end up hearing much guitar in the mix.

[bertzie]

Originally Posted by Drew224

The point is being a ****ing psychopath.

In that case, use a large amp, break a beer bottle on it, and then use it to **** random bitches in the asshole with it till someone calls the cops.

[Drew224]

Originally Posted by Caleb

What annoys me at small venues is how much time sound guys spend dialing in their 'drum sound'. They'll have the drummer spend several minutes banging the hell out of the bass drum in a place small enough that the drums probably don't even need to be miked. The end result being you don't end up hearing much guitar in the mix.

Unless the gig is being recorded, mic'ing drums is a waste of time in a lot of places. I've heard a drummer fill a ****ing church for god's sake. A church has a much higher roof, therefore more space to fill, than any club I've been in.

Originally Posted by bertzie

In that case, use a large amp, break a beer bottle on it, and then use it to **** random bitches in the asshole with it till someone calls the cops.

YES!

[MineGoesTo11]

The last show I went to featured hinder and papa roach as openers... Those guitarists would play a lead line and all I could hear was more noise in the wall of noise.

[Davio]

You can get the tone you want without uber volume. I truly regret the ear ringing I've put upon myself (with guitars and firearms). We'll pay for it later. Tinnitus is a really nasty thing (for band and audience).

If the only drawback is feedback, learn to use a Fernandes Sustainer and love the control it gives you. Vai and Schonn (and many others) both do.

[Caleb]

Originally Posted by MineGoesTo11

The last show I went to featured hinder and papa roach as openers... Those guitarists would play a lead line and all I could hear was more noise in the wall of noise.

The most godawful sounding show I've ever been to was the Misfits at a club that used to be in Dallas called Deep Ellum Live, around 1998. I know their music and I could not tell one song from another.

[The_Sentry]

Yes, it is...and it's a different game. Guitarists rely more on effects today vs. sheer volume...and tone controls. The style's bound to change.

[Roberteaux]

Originally Posted by Skintaster

Meh... I like "loud to a point, and (Depending on the amp) it can sound great, because at loud volume you're really playing the amp as much as the guitar, but I've played enough mediocre to bad sounding vintage amps at volume, to say I prefer the modern options we have.

There's a tradeoff between volume based harmonic content, and just too much noice and volume.

Originally Posted by bertzie

You have to match the amp to the venue. There comes a point where people stop hearing the tone and start just hearing the volume.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but couldn't you also get sustain feedback from a PA system micing an amp?

I saw Rush in 1972 at the Syracuse, New York, War Memorial auditorium. This is about a 5,000 seat venue.

Rush was cranked so loud that the music was impossible to correctly discern, let alone enjoy. I had never heard of Rush before-- they were the warm-up band for Grand Funk Railroad at that concert-- and didn't quite know what to make of them. You could kind of tell that there was something good going on up there-- but there was so much argle-bargle going on that you couldn't quite sort it out.

So I forgot them for few years after that. But then one of my friends got a copy of their album Fly By Night and spun me onto it... and I really liked them right away.

Too bad they were cranked like that at the concert, though. It was impossible to appreciate them at all, because you just couldn't make heads or tails of what was being played.

--R

[Olds442]

nope.

not gonna run.

it hurts my knees.

[12watt]

Get a true hollowbody if you want to play with feedback.

Buy a ES330 or a Casino and hold on for dear life.
It can be like trying to give a cat a bath.

< That will set the Guild off on just about any note and it's weeny.


I can't stand it if it's all too loud, there is no dynamics left in the music.