Time Travel

[Nigel Tufnel's tech]

If the Multiverse theory is real, i wonder if we are in the correct Universe where Time travel is solved on the My Les Paul Forum.















































..yea! probably not

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

The elements mark the passage of time even when no humans are around.

The elements have always been and always will be. They know no time. They only know arrangements. Only we have created the term "passage of time".

[Fardwark]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

The elements have always been and always will be. They know no time. The only know arrangements. Only we have created the term "passage of time".

We did indeed create the term but not the circumstances we witness.

[River]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

The elements have always been and always will be. They know no time. The only know arrangements. Only we have created the term "passage of time".

Mountains tumble to the sea. Then climb back up. Then tumble down again. Then climb back up. Then tumble down again.



Do they not pass time?

[GitFiddle]

We created time to rationalize our existence. Our concept of time is based on how often our planet spins and how often it orbits our sun. We use that to mark our birth and death and everything in between.

What does it matter to a chunk of rock orbiting Alpha Centauri how many times our planet has orbited our sun?

What was time before you were born? What is time after you die?
If you believe in an afterlife, what has happened to time?
Where is time when you are dreaming?

[River]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

We created time to rationalize our existence. Our concept of time is based on how often our planet spins and how often it orbits our sun. We use that to mark our birth and death and everything in between.

Are you telling me rocks are stupid and unimaginative? That they just sit there, never-changing over time?

Come on out and have a word with my rocks. They crawl around the yard at night. They tell me stories about the long-ago-time. Interesting stories.

Go stand underneath one of the really, really big ones that's kind of hanging precipitously on a ledge. Forever, or until it squashes you like a bug.

Time is real.

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by River

Are you telling me rocks are stupid and unimaginative? That they just sit there, never-changing over time?

Come on out and have a word with my rocks. They crawl around the yard at night. They tell me stories about the long-ago-time. Interesting stories.

Go stand underneath one of the really, really big ones that's kind of hanging precipitously on a ledge. Forever, or until it squashes you like a bug.

Time is real.

^^

Yes, but of course rocks change all the time. I was referring to the statement about "elements". Rocks change, but the elements are always there, just constantly being rearranged.

Time is only as real as you are. How long will you be real?

[River]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

Time is only as real as you are. How long will you be real?

All in fun, Git. But time will be real for my rocks long after I've become one with them. They'll take another journey to the bottom of the sea and come back up to the top of the mountains again. By that time, human life could go extinct and evolve again.

Time may be timeless, but it's still time. Those rocks don't just sit here.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

The elements have always been and always will be. They know no time. They only know arrangements. Only we have created the term "passage of time".

Yeah, tell that to the U-Pb process. Or K-Ar. Or ...

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

^^

Yes, but of course rocks change all the time. I was referring to the statement about "elements". Rocks change, but the elements are always there, just constantly being rearranged.

Not so. When an element decomposes to another element, it does so on a statistical basis and thereby marks time. It hasn't been "rearranged" ... it has changed into a different element, and does so with a statistical regularity that we can use to measure time which we haven't ourselves experienced.

We don't perceive it if we're not there, but that no more means that time doesn't exist than it means that Pluto didn't exist before 1930.

[frizzleblink]

I gt an email from YT saying that MartySongz uploaded a video today, but there are comments from last year!

[GitFiddle]

Of course Riv, it has to be fun.

I think time travel has been possible since the dawn of man. Its just an alternate view as opposed to man always trying to do things the hard way. We struggle to explain it with science and mechanics, but its already within our minds to do it from day one.

The well-known physicist John Barbour makes this definition of time:

Time is nothing but a measure of the changing positions of objects. A pendulum swings, the hands on a clock advance. 129

Time, therefore, consists of a comparison between various perceptions that arise in the brain. A study of people suffering from the memory loss known as anterograde amnesia makes it easier to see that time is nothing more than a human perception. Such people lose all their short-term memory, they are unable to remember what happened before, and are therefore unaware whether there's been any interval between two events. This is one further proof that time exists solely as a perception.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If time has no objective existence, how would you explain the life-cycle of stars?

The fact that light itself has a speed shows that time has an objective existence outside of human perception.

[GitFiddle]

I'm just saying that all the things in this universe that we define, are defined by our human brains and eyes. We defined light to have speed. 186,000 miles per second. What is a mile? What is a second? It matters not, to light.

The fact that time is a perception was confirmed with the general theory of relativity proposed by Albert Einstein. In his book The Universe and Dr. Einstein, Lincoln Barnett writes:

Along with absolute space, Einstein discarded the concept of absolute time-of a steady, unvarying inexorable universal time flow, streaming from the infinite past to the infinite future. Much of the obscurity that has surrounded the Theory of Relativity stems from man's reluctance to recognize that a sense of time, like sense of colour, is a form of perception. Just as space is simply a possible order of material objects, so time is simply a possible order of events. The subjectivity of time is best explained in Einstein's own words. "The experiences of an individual," he says, "appear to us arranged in a series of events; in this series the single events which we remember appear to be ordered according to the criterion of 'earlier' and 'later.' There exists, therefore, for the individual, an I-time, or subjective time. This in itself is not measurable.”

[GitFiddle]

Ever have those old stories from your past about wild times with your friends back in high school? Over the years you retell the stories with friends, family, co-workers. Then a couple decades later you meet up with a bunch of your old HS friends and start retelling the "old" stories, only to find out each one of you has a completely different perception of what really happened.

But it just could have been the drugs too.

Ever see that STNG episode where Picard collapses on the bridge and passes out. Next thing he wakes up on a planet and has a wife and kids and lives an entire lifetime until he is an old man. Then he wakes up on the bridge and they said he had been unconscious for a few minutes (or seconds). Can't quite recall all the details. But time is kind of like that.

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by River

....
Come on out and have a word with my rocks. They crawl around the yard at night. ....

It's funny you say that... its true rocks do that.

It's a phenomena that is studied in Death Valley. The rocks travel around there all the time:






Here is a time elapse to see if anybody was messing with them:

[randelli]

Here....

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey...Stuff - YouTube

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey...Stuff - YouTube

is the answer....

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by randelli

Here....

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey...Stuff - YouTube

is the answer....

EUREKA


I like how that one rock has another rock on top of it, along for the ride.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

I'm just saying that all the things in this universe that we define, are defined by our human brains and eyes. We defined light to have speed. 186,000 miles per second. What is a mile? What is a second? It matters not, to light.

Of course a given distance, and a given time, are both abstract and arbitrary. The fact that they're interlinked is what gives rise to time as a dimension.

The fact that it may or may not (we don't know) be malleable does not mean it doesn't exist, or that it only exists in our minds.

If malleability means non-existence, then space itself doesn't exist (by this logic), because it too is warped in the presence of a gravitational field.

But elements still decompose at predictable rates, solipsism not withstanding.

[djwilbanks]

Time is an illusion; lunch time doubly so.

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by djwilbanks

Time is an illusion; lunch time doubly so.

So is getting paid extra for working double time an illusion. I had an ex-boss prove that to me.

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by geochem1st

So is getting paid extra for working double time an illusion. I had an ex-boss prove that to me.

Punch the clock, they said. Now I'm buying them a new clock.

[River]

Originally Posted by geochem1st

It's funny you say that... its true rocks do that.

They're sneaky bastards. Give 'em enough time, they'll take over the Earth.

Oh, wait...

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by djwilbanks

Punch the clock, they said. Now I'm buying them a new clock.

Ba-dum Tissssssh!

[djwilbanks]

Originally Posted by River

They're sneaky bastards. Give 'em enough time, they'll take over the Earth.

Oh, wait...

[River]

Past is prologue.

[djwilbanks]

The future is our present to the past.

Wait, no...

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Of course a given distance, and a given time, are both abstract and arbitrary. The fact that they're interlinked is what gives rise to time as a dimension.

The fact that it may or may not (we don't know) be malleable does not mean it doesn't exist, or that it only exists in our minds.

If malleability means non-existence, then space itself doesn't exist (by this logic), because it too is warped in the presence of a gravitational field.

But elements still decompose at predictable rates, solipsism not withstanding.

Yes, the universe will keep trudging along just as it has before we existed and will continue long after. It is a process that was started by something we are incapable of conceiving.

I'm just pointing out that man has an inherent nature to become God-like or maybe a better term, create himself to be a super human. Such as the automobile is a grand extension of our feet. The telephone is a grand extension of our hearing. A telescope, our sight etc...

We have the need to understand our world by defining everything in it, in our own terms.

The best example that comes to mind is the telephone. First it was very primitive. Then we had the portable cell phone. Now we have smart phones giving access to not only speech, but text, social networking. Now man nearly has the collective intelligence of the human race at his fingertips. Oh yeah, and porn too.

But what is next? Next we will have to do away with actually having to use our digits on a touch screen. The next step will be to connect it directly into our brain. Then we will all be connected mechanically. But then what would be the next step beyond that?

It is my firm belief that only then will we discover, we have been capable of that very thing all along without touch pads and smart chips and microwaves. Man is going to realize that everyone has been interconnected with each other all along. We have just been too blind (blinded by science) to see it yet.

We are all connected by a silver chord. Our very presence and interaction in this forum and this thread is living proof. Just think if we could experience this thread without your keyboard and without your monitor (or touch pad).

Wow, I sure hope I'm not high again.

Just to lighten the mood, Carrie Underwood is giving a show on Letterman in about 15-20 minutes.

[CA-8-5799]

Originally Posted by Stevie 202

see.....I was making a joke....you know the old koan.....tree falls in the forest etc...?

I thought you were playing on that....


cheers

me too

[Emmitt Fitzhume]

Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE

Remember if time travel is possible, it has ALWAYS been possible. Actually if you travel the speed of light, time slows down for you, but not those who are not traveling the speed of light. Even just driving in a car at 60 mph, if you did this for 100 years, you would experience a second or two less time than another person sitting still for 100 years.

As the pilot of a jet going 600 mph I guess I'll have a few extra seconds by the time I retire. Awesome!

[CA-8-5799]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

The elements have always been and always will be. They know no time. They only know arrangements. Only we have created the term "passage of time".

If elements did'nt know ttie how could they exist?