Guitar Store... You break it, you bought it... Enforceable?

[nauc]

you break, you pay.

and if the store doesnt carry insurance, theyre dumb

/thread

[bertzie]

Originally Posted by Thundergod

That's not right and certainly not nice. You should unchain them when bathing and sleeping. Or else the Santa righteousness squad will lay you a visit.

Fair enough.

[MCURZON]

I don't think you can just say guitar stores are not for kids. What about kids who play the guitar? If someone is carrying a small child in their arms and wants to pop in and buy a book or some strings then I can't see the problem. I do this all the time.

If I was going to buy a guitar and likely to try several out then I would not go unless my wife could come too and take care of restraining them, or ideally take them to the toy shop and come back to meet me in 30 mins!

What I would not do is go the store with one of them without another adult and try guitars out, simply because whilst sitting down and trying them out because then I would not have full control over them and whilst bith of my girls are wel behaved, accidents happen.

[Zack]

if a snotty nosed brat knocked over my strat id whisk it up and take it to the doctor, screw the kid

[RichBrew]

Originally Posted by stratoblaster

Now I am left wondering the responsibility of a customer in a store. My feeling is, the owner takes a certain responsibility presenting merchandise in a manner that it can be damaged.

In the UK, if you damage or break anything on display in a shop then you are required, by law, to pay for said goods at cost price, not retail.

RichBrew

[Malikon]

Originally Posted by nbeersiii

Big man blowing up infront of the mans child like that. Over a tunning peg. I would have apolligised for your Tele and tried my hardest not to shove it up your ass.

Really? wow.

If people and their unsupervised unrestrained child are in an area they're not supposed to be and that kid gets so much as a scratch on my guitar I'd be hella pissed.

The kid shouldn't be there and then nothing would've happened.

People need to stop thinking their kids are special snowflakes and start taking some responsibility. You damage a mans guitar you best be ready to deal with an angry man. That's not being rude, that's what I'd consider normal behavior. A bent tuning peg right before you're about to go on would seriously piss off any musician.

Backstage is no place for a damn toddler anyway.

as to the original post, be careful with guitars in guitar stores.

I worked in a guitar store that loved using those stupid 'trees' that hold like 6 guitars. You know the type right? There's a 'U' that holds the headstock and a 'T' that presses against the body?

I couldn't count how many times some stupid, dysfunctional, retard parent let their kids grab a guitar off the stands, smack the strings for a minute and then put the guitar back.

Oh, but does the little carpet rat hang the guitar up the way he found it? No for some reason some people are incapable of putting things back like they find it. So the kid would always stand the guitar on the 'T' section and have the 'U' section holding the middle of the neck.

It's only a matter of time.

Guitar goes crashing to the floor.

Mom goes, "Gee I'm so sorry!" then bolts for the door.

And my boss was the one who had to eat the damage.

By all means Parents, take your kids wherever you want. But keep them on a short leash and be ready to accept responsibility if they break something.

And for gods sake if you find a guitar HANGING, don't put it back STANDING!

[voodo child]

Originally Posted by bertzie

Children, like any other pet, should be kept on a leash at all times.

I remember when I was on a vacation.
I was eating food and suddenly I saw a mother with her two kids and they were on a leash.
They were quiet and calm but as soon as the mother remowed the leash they were running around like crazy.

[voodo child]

In Sweden the shopowner owns all the guitars and its their property.
Its a privilege to be allowed to walk into the store cuz the store is the shopowners property and if you would damage something then you would have to pay for it.

[Malikon]

Originally Posted by voodo child

In Sweden the shopowner owns all the guitars and its their property.
Its a privilege to be allowed to walk into the store cuz the store is the shopowners property and if you would damage something then you would have to pay for it.

yeah,....people don't quite get that here. I think it has to do with the fact that so many people feel entitled to just do whatever they want. And if they f**k up they feel that somehow they're not accountable and it's someone else's fault and problem.

Somehow this attitude is simultaneously sad and amusing.

[voodo child]

Originally Posted by Malikon

yeah,....people don't quite get that here. I think it has to do with the fact that so many people feel entitled to just do whatever they want. And if they f**k up they feel that somehow they're not accountable and it's someone else's fault and problem.

Somehow this attitude is simultaneously sad and amusing.

Its like being allowed in someones house. Its a privilege.
OP: Ive worked in a musicstore and we have had alot of kids coming in to the store and I got no problems with kids and their parents.

We give the kid a free kazoo

[MCURZON]

I think the reason a lot of small music shops are failing is because they make you feel you are privileged to be there! They are retail premises and need you to be there. Doesn't mean you can't be respectful while you are there but I think they should try and make you feel good or you can just buy online and save a packet.

[Caleb]

In the vast majority of U.S. jurisdictions (I'm not going to be an ass here and pretend to know about other countries' laws), this type of situation would be a civil issue, and no one would be going to jail. Believe me when I say I have a bit of experience trying to referee these matters, albeit none involving high end guitars.

All that being said, if myself or a dependant of mine accidently destroyed another's property, I would pay for it. If I didn't have the funds, and most likely I wouldn't, I would try and arrange some sort of payment plan before detailing such bullshit to a judge.

[12watt]

Originally Posted by voodo child

We give the kid a free kazoo

Now THAT is a way to stop parents bringing their kids back to a music shop.

[JCM900MkIII]

A shop without insurance for it's stock? How un-American is that?

What if a fire breaks out? What if the place got burgled? What if a costumer trips over a cable? What if in case of a flooding (New Orleans)?

Anyway, if it's clear the customer was the cause, there is allways the insurance of that customer (not sure about the U.S. but we have mandatory liability insurance over here).

[Caleb]

Originally Posted by 12watt

Now THAT is a way to stop parents bringing their kids back to a music shop.

Not to derail, but that reminds me of something pretty funny a buddy of mine did once. His brother had twin 6 year olds. So as a gag on their birthday he sent them each a cheap snare drum. Problem is, he purposely only included one pair of sticks. So not only does his brother have to hear the constant banging of drums, he has to hear the boys constantly fighting over the one set of drum sticks.

[voodo child]

Originally Posted by 12watt

Now THAT is a way to stop parents bringing their kids back to a music shop.

We swedes are quite smart.

However this is true.

IKEA - Banned Commercial - Swedish Midsummer - YouTube

IKEA - Banned Commercial - Swedish Midsummer - YouTube

[Joeydego]

Originally Posted by NeoConMan

Quick story regarding kids.

In Texas - of all places - a woman was in a funiture store in the mid-nineties.

She tripped over a two year-old child on the slick polished floor in the store and injured herself.
Sued the store.
Big dust-up in the courts.

The woman was awarded $675,000 in damages.

So who was the fxcking moron who lets a two year-old child run loose in the store?




The plaintiff.

She tripped over her own child.

True story - made all the newspapers and TV broadcasts.
I have no idea if it was ever appealed or anything, but still - the store was out a million bucks...

.

Our justice system and courts are a farce.

[cooljuk]

What's with all the "they have insurance, so what's the big deal?" comments? Someone is still paying for that.

If I accidentally smash your windshield are you going to just let me walk away? You have insurance, right?

...and for the life of me I can't think of a SINGLE situation where someone would "have to" have a toddler in a guitar store. Was the outside world on fire and it was the only place to take shelter or something?

[FennRx]

Originally Posted by Malikon

yeah,....people don't quite get that here. I think it has to do with the fact that so many people feel entitled to just do whatever they want. And if they f**k up they feel that somehow they're not accountable and it's someone else's fault and problem.

Somehow this attitude is simultaneously sad and amusing.

and this extends well past just retail stores....healthcare, birth control, food....you name it.

[nbeersiii]

Originally Posted by Malikon

Really? wow.

If people and their unsupervised unrestrained child are in an area they're not supposed to be and that kid gets so much as a scratch on my guitar I'd be hella pissed.

The kid shouldn't be there and then nothing would've happened.

People need to stop thinking their kids are special snowflakes and start taking some responsibility. You damage a mans guitar you best be ready to deal with an angry man. That's not being rude, that's what I'd consider normal behavior. A bent tuning peg right before you're about to go on would seriously piss off any musician.

Backstage is no place for a damn toddler anyway.

as to the original post, be careful with guitars in guitar stores.

I worked in a guitar store that loved using those stupid 'trees' that hold like 6 guitars. You know the type right? There's a 'U' that holds the headstock and a 'T' that presses against the body?

I couldn't count how many times some stupid, dysfunctional, retard parent let their kids grab a guitar off the stands, smack the strings for a minute and then put the guitar back.

Oh, but does the little carpet rat hang the guitar up the way he found it? No for some reason some people are incapable of putting things back like they find it. So the kid would always stand the guitar on the 'T' section and have the 'U' section holding the middle of the neck.

It's only a matter of time.

Guitar goes crashing to the floor.

Mom goes, "Gee I'm so sorry!" then bolts for the door.

And my boss was the one who had to eat the damage.

By all means Parents, take your kids wherever you want. But keep them on a short leash and be ready to accept responsibility if they break something.

And for gods sake if you find a guitar HANGING, don't put it back STANDING!

Its how he boast about handling the situation in front of a child that gets me. I do not beleive in acting this way over a guitar in front of his kid like that. I wasnt there but it sounded like he couldnt wait for it to happen and then acted like a total prick. Thats my problem.

[campbellj]

My 2 year old daughter goes to the guitar store with me all the time. She loves going, but I do keep her in her stroller so she can't run loose and knock shit over though. It's totally the Parents responsibility of controlling their children and making sure nothing gets knocked over or broken. If so, I believe in the you break it you buy it rule. Having said that, I will take my children anywhere I damn well please "if" I know I can control them there, and no one is gonna tell me otherwise, unless there is an age limit sign on the front door.

I can understand malikon's side though as I was the same way before I had kids. So no disrespect to him or anyone that feels the same way. I totally agree about backstage not being a place for children though.

[Bigfoot410]

Originally Posted by Thundergod

This.



And man that "teles are harder than toddlers" line just got beer all over my keyboard.

The term "screechling" did it for me.....lmao!!! I'm gonna use that!

[SteveGangi]

Changed - Reason, didn't have my coffee and misread the whole thing completely.

[Fracture]

Originally Posted by Malikon

yeah,....people don't quite get that here. I think it has to do with the fact that so many people feel entitled to just do whatever they want. And if they f**k up they feel that somehow they're not accountable and it's someone else's fault and problem.

Somehow this attitude is simultaneously sad and amusing.

You think that the way corporate America treats it's employees is much different than this?
Granted, most places won't take money out of your pay, but some type of reprimand is usually enforced.
Break a jar in a grocery store, and heaven forbid they make you pay for it.
You'll just shop somewhere else.
But if you negligently damage a guitar or other, you should pay for the damage
or devaluation.
If you don't want stuff damaged by kids, post signs, or put it where they can't get to it.
If parents would teach their kids some level of accountability, we wouldn't have this thread.

[paruwi]

3,5 year old kids are non-accountable over here.......

[stratoblaster]

hmmm.. Maybe I should have left the kid part out of the initial post. I really was just curious about the ability for a store owner to enforce "you break it, you bought it." Funny how the kid thing colored the tone of the thread. Nor am I looking for an excuse to break a stores item and thumb my nose at them. That's not my style.

I think the death of small retail to large retail is changing peoples perceptions of their responsibilities as a customer. Case in point, this guitar shop nicely asked if I wanted to see anything, they would take it off the wall for me. I've been going to music stores for 30+ years since I was a little kid. Before GC, you respected the stores inventory. Today, I still feel weird going into GC and just grabbing guitars off the wall. And if I was at your house, I would ask you to play your guitar. But that is my style.

[Dragon1413]

I agree parents are responsible for the actions of their children and each parent will have to evaluate what is and is not an appropriate environment for them to take their children based on the child's behavior and the parent's level of control.

I am curious though about the posters who seem to be vehemently against children being anywhere but home. How did they behave as young children; did they ever get to go anywhere and, if so, how much control did their parent(s) exercise over them?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by voodo child

I remember when I was on a vacation.
I was eating food and suddenly I saw a mother with her two kids and they were on a leash.
They were quiet and calm but as soon as the mother remowed the leash they were running around like crazy.

Those are revolting items. The only leash I had, or needed, as a boy was a sharp glance from my father. When I got one from him, you'd better believe I straightened up immediately. It only took embarrassing him in public once or twice as a child to learn the lesson. I imparted that to my son, and it isn't very hard; it's a simple matter of holding the child accountable for their actions.

Leashes are simple laziness. Teaching your child to behave is too much work, so put 'em on a rope and reel 'em in when they act up? Pathetic. We won't go into the demeaning psychology they likely impart.

Originally Posted by JCM900MkIII

A shop without insurance for it's stock? How un-American is that?

What if a fire breaks out? What if the place got burgled? What if a costumer trips over a cable? What if in case of a flooding (New Orleans)?

Incidental damage is almost never covered in retail-property insurance policies, for obvious reasons.

[Bluesky]

Here in Florida, if it was an accident , a report would be made and the event documented. It would be up to the owner to then sue the person civilly in court

[121064]

Originally Posted by Vintage_Burster

I see no issue with it as long as you have the child controlled.

I defiantly dont agree with letting them run wild, accidents are bound to occur.

Problem was, the child was NOT controlled. It was running around like a monkey on crack. The tuning peg was bent in such a way it took all the strength in my fingers to move it. We were 10 minutes away from going on and my car was parked a 20-minute walk away. Going back for vise grips wasn't an option.