So... do people with all the best equipment

[EasyAce]

Originally Posted by Lysol

Cover [artists] don't make history, original bands do.

Two words: Elvis Presley, who couldn't and didn't write worth a damn. (People are still sometimes deked when seeing his name in the songwriting credits on some of his early records, but that was a result of Col. Parker strong-arming songwriters---Otis Blackwell in particular, though also Mae Boren Axton and Tommy Durden, the authors of "Heartbreak Hotel," and others---into accepting Presley as a co-writer in return for the privilege of pitching material to him.)

Two more words: Wes Montgomery, who could and did write some of his material, and it was terrific material, but it isn't exactly how he's remembered best.

And I speak as a guy who prefers himself to come up with original blues material while covering not the usual beaten-to-death-and-back warhorses but stuff from the vast repertoire that doesn't get touched much but still says something to me.

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by River

You're qualified for some serious shit, then!

Here I'm stuck having to refinish my used guitars and whittle my collection down to the Ibanez and an acoustic. Better downgrade that Martin, too.

I don't know how "qualified" I am. I tend to like mid level guitars the most. I don't worry that much about gigging with them.

And I know quite a few bedroom guitar players that can blow my playing away.

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by Lysol

I don't care what cover bands do to tell you the truth.



Sure thing, cant think different can we.



It's not they aren't worthy as there's no worth scale. I just see it as stupid.

I and everyone I have ever known and all the good bands all started out on cheaper equipment. You'll find most people do.

Well, our experiences will vary, I guess. I certainly started out with cheaper gear, but it was because I didn't have another option at the time.

We're talking about guitar players in general though. Most people that I've known who managed to play professionally, or to at least accomplish some measure of "success" did so through many years of hard work and with some luck.

They often DID play less expensive guitars (At least at first), but it was usually because they started playing pretty young, and didn't have a lot of money. Most would have gladly played much "better" gear early on, if they could afford it.

I have known a few people that bought premium gear when they were first learning, and they managed to achieve their goals too.

[River]

Originally Posted by Skintaster

I don't know how "qualified" I am.

You're not getting it, Skinny. You've qualified for your pick of the litter: Guitar Gallery | Sweetwater.com

My understanding is that Lysol's picking up the tab, as a token of his appreciation of two decades of originality.

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by EasyAce

Two words: Elvis Presley, who couldn't and didn't write worth a damn. (People are still sometimes deked when seeing his name in the songwriting credits on some of his early records, but that was a result of Col. Parker strong-arming songwriters---Otis Blackwell in particular, though also Mae Boren Axton and Tommy Durden, the authors of "Heartbreak Hotel," and others---into accepting Presley as a co-writer in return for the privilege of pitching material to him.)

Two more words: Wes Montgomery, who could and did write some of his material, and it was terrific material, but it isn't exactly how he's remembered best.

And I speak as a guy who prefers himself to come up with original blues material while covering not the usual beaten-to-death-and-back warhorses but stuff from the vast repertoire that doesn't get touched much but still says something to me.

Aside from Elvis I don't know any of these people. However, Elvis was a great singer and if others wrote his songs that is not the same as playing covers, it's not great but it's not playing covers.

What cover bands covers do you play covers of?

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by River

You're not getting it, Skinny. You've qualified for your pick of the litter: Guitar Gallery | Sweetwater.com

My understanding is that Lysol's picking up the tab, as a token of his appreciation of two decades of originality.

Excellent!

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by River

You're not getting it, Skinny. You've qualified for your pick of the litter: Guitar Gallery | Sweetwater.com

My understanding is that Lysol's picking up the tab, as a token of his appreciation of two decades of originality.

You know something...if I had the money there's a couple of guys here I would buy any gear they want, and you're not one of them.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by Lysol

Aside from Elvis I don't know any of these people. However, Elvis was a great singer and if others wrote his songs that is not the same as playing covers, it's not great but it's not playing covers.

If he hasn't written the song, he's certainly not playing an original.

[SteveGangi]

Originally Posted by Superlizard

It's simple, really. ...

Ignore the hype/criticism, ignore the fanbois, ignore the bagga-doucha sales-twits.

That part I agree with.

As for good tone, I have to disagree somewhat...That is too subjective and can legitimately vary from one person to the next. Besides, too many people obsess about some unobtainable (for them) tone and chase it for years, when that tone was due to the amp(s), techs and engineers in a studio and not the guitar itself.

[SteveGangi]

Originally Posted by River

You're qualified for some serious shit, then!

Here I'm stuck having to refinish my used guitars and whittle my collection down to the Ibanez and an acoustic. Better downgrade that Martin, too.

I've been playing for 50 years. I can haz all ur stuff lol lol lol?

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

If he hasn't written the song, he's certainly not playing an original.

Technically true but he is certainly not playing covers either. However, he IS playing an original song, he just didn't write it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by Lysol

Technically true but he is certainly not playing covers either. However, he IS playing an original song, he just didn't write it.

Well, all songs are original. If he didn't write it, his isn't the original version. I mean, did he learn it by telepathy? No. He heard it.

He is covering someone else's song, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[KP]

Originally Posted by Lysol

Aside from Elvis I don't know any of these people. However, Elvis was a great singer and if others wrote his songs that is not the same as playing covers, it's not great but it's not playing covers.

What cover bands covers do you play covers of?

Elvis was not a great singer. You honestly do not know who Wes Montgomery is? If so that is rather sad.

Added note: Elvis could not play guitar for shit either.

[EasyAce]

Originally Posted by Lysol

Aside from Elvis I don't know any of these people. However, Elvis was a great singer and if others wrote his songs that is not the same as playing covers, it's not great but it's not playing covers.

Actually, it is considering much of his early repertoire involved remaking blues vintages such as "That's All Right" (a cover of an Arthur Crudup number) and others. Not to mention how much material he actually did cover in his post-Army career.

Originally Posted by Lysol

What cover bands covers do you play covers of?

Among others, my blues band's songbook includes . . .

Diving Duck Blues (Sleepy John Estes)
Who's Been Talking (Howlin' Wolf)
Blues at Sunrise (Albert King)
I'll Play the Blues for You (Albert King)
Fattening Frogs for Snakes (Sonny Boy Williamson---in our case, it's look, ma, no harmonica!)
Flor d'Luna (Moonflower) (Santana)
Crawling King Snake (John Lee Hooker)
The Same Thing (Muddy Waters)
From Four Until Late (Robert Johnson---we named ourselves after this song, in fact, but of course you'd think, hearing most blues groups in the bar circuits, that Robert Johnson hadn't done a damn thing other than "Crossroads" or "Sweet Home Chicago")
Jungle Juice (Stick McGhee, who's sometimes remembered for being the kid brother of blues legend Brownie McGhee)
Drinkin' Wine (Stick McGhee)
One More Mile (James Cotton)
The Stumble (Freddie King---but listen to most bar bands and you'd think Freddie King had done nothing but "Goin' Down" or "Have You Ever Loved a Woman" or "Hideaway," and even there most of those guys think those songs were invented by Jeff Beck and/or Eric Clapton . . .)

Codicil: We cover these songs---we don't copy them. I'm proud to say we don't sound like anyone but ourselves doing them.

Our original material includes:

Blues for Cynthia (a slow blues instrumental jam number in G I came up with over a year ago, in honour of a lady who administered one of the better blues jams in my town until her boyfriend, the host band's bassist, was stupid enough to punch out a customer in the bar and near the bandstand . . . while the bar manager was in the bar; from everyting I heard the customer had it coming but you don't belt him in the bar, you take it the hell outside . . . )
Jam Until Late (a funky little instrumental grinder I came up with last week)
I Missed the Train (a little swinging shuffler I wrote over the summer)
Roamin' in the Gloamin' (a kind of zydeco blues, or bluesy zydeco, written by our keyboard player)
You Can't Teach Me Love (a blues ballad of mine)
Be Careful What You Wish For (a funky little rocking blues I just finished writing)

p.s. If you've never heard of Wes Montgomery, you're in for a treat---he was a marvelous guitarist, and one of the jazzmen who never forgot the blues . . .

Wes Montgomery, "Bumpin'"

Wes Montgomery, "Bumpin'"

Wes Montgomery, "Sun Down"

Wes Montgomery, "Sun Down"

Wes Montgomery, "No Blues"

Wes Montgomery, "No Blues"

Wes Montgomery, "Unit 7"

Wes Montgomery, "Unit 7"

[X–Ray]

Originally Posted by River

So?

PRECISELY

nom, to the OP

but what is the real agenda of this thread?

there are dilettantes in every field

should there be an audition before one can buy a piece of gear which generates envy and/or criticism?

a contest for who had it the worst? or, who walked five miles in the snow for a set of strings?

really, i think this boils down to envy and bragging rights, with some well thought out comments/perspectives in between

at age 16 i bought a brand new Tele while doing odd jobs, then later that year traded it for a '59 Gibson Les Paul double cutaway (the seeds of GAS had been sown)

what does that make me? a working class hero?

no, a hard working teenager whose parents had a friend of the family say Telecasters and Les Pauls were good guitars – dumb luck and elbow grease on my part

there is so much perverse pride in suffering and minimalism versus live and let live

rant over with no smiley face bullshit from me

[Roman]

All criticism and poser jokes aside, The bottom line is people will buy the best gear they can afford.

It's just human envy I guess, when a good player with no money for good gear comes across a bad player with great gear. It kicks in that whole "life's not fair" feeling.

Oh well, Just the way it is. Deserving great gear doesn't come from the gods smiling on one for having talent.

Nope, it comes from having money.

BTW, there are plenty of great players who have great gear, so it all evens out.

[upl8tr]

Originally Posted by KP

Elvis was not a great singer.

[Roberteaux]

.

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by KP

Elvis was not a great singer. You honestly do not know who Wes Montgomery is? If so that is rather sad.

Added note: Elvis could not play guitar for shit either.

Nope, don't know who he is and I assume he's some blues guy. I don't like Blues at all, it's crap in my opinion.

Elvis couldn't play for shit but to say he couldn't sing, well, that just makes you idiotic.

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Well, all songs are original. If he didn't write it, his isn't the original version. I mean, did he learn it by telepathy? No. He heard it.

He is covering someone else's song, and there is nothing wrong with that.

You really need to learn the definition of a cover. A "cover" is someone playing an already released song by another artist. Not a song written by someone else and never released. They are entirely different.

And yes I know he did cover some songs but they aren't in question here.

[nbeersiii]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

All criticism and poser jokes aside, The bottom line is people will buy the best gear they can afford.

It's just human envy I guess, when a good player with no money for good gear comes across a bad player with great gear. It kicks in that whole "life's not fair" feeling.

Oh well, Just the way it is. Deserving great gear doesn't come from the gods smiling on one for having talent.

Nope, it comes from having money.

BTW, there are plenty of great players who have great gear, so it all evens out.

Not being a smartass Mr. Rist but you being a very respected guitar maker have you and Im sure you have ever meet a guitar player that you really liked and they played crap guitars cause thats allthey could afford just built them a guitar and said here man its yours. If I had the abilities to build guitars like that I would from time to time. I would grab a bunch of parts I had laying around put them together and just give it away to somebody that I thought deserved better.

[12watt]

Some covers by Melvins... Bon appétit!

Leadbelly via Ram Jam

Melvins - Black Betty - YouTube

Melvins - Black Betty - YouTube

Merle Haggard

Melvins - The Crybaby - 09 - Okie From Muskogee - YouTube

Melvins - The Crybaby - 09 - Okie From Muskogee - YouTube

Alice Cooper

Melvins - Lysol - 05 - The Ballad of Dwight Frye - YouTube

Melvins - Lysol - 05 - The Ballad of Dwight Frye - YouTube

Pink Floyd

Melvins - Electroretard - 08 - Interstellar Overdrive - YouTube

Melvins - Electroretard - 08 - Interstellar Overdrive - YouTube

The Cars

Melvins - Candy-O - YouTube

Melvins - Candy-O - YouTube

T-Rex

MELVINS "Buick MacKane" (T.REX cover) - YouTube

MELVINS "Buick MacKane" (T.REX cover) - YouTube

There are plenty more...

[X–Ray]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

<spin>

It kicks in that whole "life's not fair" feeling

<spin>

Oh well, Just the way it is. Deserving great gear doesn't come from the gods smiling on one for having talent.

<snip>

likewise, to borrow a from a previous quote of mine in this thread, life's not fair

to borrow from a regional saying, if you want fair, go to Pomona (the location of an annual county fair)

a question is then begged; who is deserving?

possibly, the essential question of this thread is as old as humankind and somewhat biblical in nature: (to grossly paraphrase) – (why does) the same Sun shines down on the wicked man as well as the righteous?

it must be because one has a higher credit limit on their charge card than another

You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We all do with what we can
– John Lennon

right: We all do with what we can

[bluesaxe]

There's a guy that's pretty popular around here, Rev Raven, that plays an old squier telecaster and an even older Harmony hollowbody with duck tape over a hole in it. I would guess that both guitars together aren't worth $300.

He's a Chicago blues style player and IMHO really gets the feel of good Chicago style blues. He's currently on tour in the Caribbean with stops in Florida on the way back to Milwaukee.

Nothing says that you need a bunch of fancy gear to make a name for yourself.

[FennRx]

i can't play worth a damn, never been in a band, never played a gig...so i guess i'm that guy the OP was talking about. I also am fat with a receding hairline and have a pretty good lookin' wife who certainly could have pulled in a better lookin' guy (god bless self esteem! lmao), so I must really piss the OP off.

[X–Ray]

Originally Posted by bluesaxe

<snip>

Nothing says that you need a bunch of fancy gear to make a name for yourself.

agree wholeheartedly

and, nothing (no one) says it doesn't...

my guess it's Rev Raven's choice, though

it gets back too the thorny issue of who is the arbiter of merit?

fortunately, there is plenty of room for opinions on this subject

[EvanPC]

Originally Posted by jimh

When I was a kid I couldn't afford a Les Paul and I didn't have time for lessons. Now, at 40, I can afford nice equipment and take the time to learn properly. I've been fiddling with guitars for 25 years and I have been "that guy" in guitar center...but you know...as far as I know, you only get one shot at this big adventure and I say spend money on stuff you enjoy (guitars)(airplanes) and screw the rest. When they nail the lid on it will be without regrets. I have nothing against other brand guitars but for me...my guitar "hero's" played Gibson and Fender and I am going to do my best to emulate them and maybe crank out my own feeble attempts at music. In the end learning the guitar has been one hell of a fun adventure!

Jim

I'm a cursed, damned fence rider on so many, or most issues. This one is no different.

The above statement is impossible for me to disagree with or argue. It's very well said, and I would say "more power to" the person who lives this way. It's an admirable, harmless approach to life and happiness in general, and I try to apply this logic to a lot of what I do (stress "try").

On the other hand, generally speaking, I think it takes an experienced player to truly appreciate or recognize/take advantage of/utilize the things which separates high-end gear from "affordable" gear. How can you really appreciate the responsiveness of a properly set up, well built guitar, or pickups, if you can barely control your fingers on the fretboard? How can you really evaluate or take advantage of how a high end amp interacts with a high end guitar without having the technique to display or bring out those qualities? Just thoughts I ask myself...not really trying to make a point.

I don't think I'm the experienced player who could recognize the aforementioned, by the way. In the 18 or so years I've played, 16 of those years have been with cheap, affordable gear. It's only recently that I've had the opportunity to evaluate on my own what I think separates my "nicer" gear from the stuff I'd been playing with. I can only speak for myself, but I know for a fact that if I owned some of the gear I have now, 10 years ago, I wouldn't know the difference beyond maybe a placebo effect, and I would have been wasting my money...

Then again...I bust my hump and stress myself out on a daily basis for my paycheck, so I should buy whatever the hell I want!

[Dark Helmet]

oh good lord this thread is about me.

having nice gear drives me to be a better player. also my idea of better is "having more fun"... not learning every blues scale known to man... or any scale for that matter... I hate scales.

I'm happy to make a pleasant noise and have fun playing covers with my Bros.... (no, really, the band is me and my two brothers).

LP #3 (first Gibson!) should be in tomorrow, Orange #3 sometime mid-March. if it pisses you off, bite me.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by Lysol

You really need to learn the definition of a cover. A "cover" is someone playing an already released song by another artist. Not a song written by someone else and never released. They are entirely different.

Says who? You?

Who cares what you think?

If it ain't original, it's a cover. I'm right, you're wrong, end of story. See you in the showers, kid.

And yes I know he did cover some songs but they aren't in question here.

That and three dollars will get you a cuppa joe. When you do someone else's songs, you're doing a cover.

Also, you need to listen to that Wes Montgomery, lest you let your assumptions short-circuit a fine musical education.





Oh, wait.

[Joeydego]

All of you with low end Estabans and cigar box type instruments, pm me for an exchange program for all my high end Gibson, fender, PRS and Ibanez guitars. Evidently as a coverband guy, I'm not worthy of a decent instrument..................perhaps I'll be faithfully recreating solos of the best in the business with a kazoo....................Some. of. You. Simply. Slay. Me.