So... do people with all the best equipment

[Skintaster]

There's still plenty of affordable vintage gear that the average within reach of the average person if they save a little. Sure, most people aren't going to run out and be able to buy a 59 Les Paul, or an early 60's Strat, but there was plenty of other cool gear made during that time period that IS relatively affordable.

Twenty years ago, me and my buddies bought multiple Melody Makers made between 1959 and 1965. You could get them for $150 at pawn shops. The wealthier collectors skipped over them because they were "student guitars", but you know what? They were excellent guitars, same as Juniors and Specials which were also pretty affordable. I bought an early 60's ES-335 for $350 back then.

Things change. All of those guitars are collected now, and their prices reflect that.

People that want vintage gear but don't have 1959 burst money need to look around at all of the other cool older gear that doesn't command those prices. There's a lot out there.

[Skintaster]

Another fine double post. Forum seems a little "twitchy" today.

[V Man]

Originally Posted by MCURZON

Is that a top of the line double dildo?

Matt

Ain't two heads better than one?

[GitFiddle]

Originally Posted by blakem

Actually play any good??? I know some do, and of course most professionals.. but it's funny, I hang out at the music store and guys with money will come in and buy the best pickups, and the best guitar, the best amp, and I am glad they can... but from what I see, most can barely play a G chord... LOL... I am generalizing , I know thats wrong to do, but it cracks me up... they are so concearned with having the best and they cant even play.... then you got the guys with no money that come in, pick up a cheap Squire Strat , plug into a cheap amp and sound awesome..... any one else notice this?

Its all in how you look at it and study it.

Some might view it as a waste, to see someone buying expensive equipment with little talent.

Others might view it as an opportunity to offer them some lessons and maybe even become their jamming partner.

[Phil47uk]

Originally Posted by blakem

Actually play any good??? I know some do, and of course most professionals.. but it's funny, I hang out at the music store and guys with money will come in and buy the best pickups, and the best guitar, the best amp, and I am glad they can... but from what I see, most can barely play a G chord... LOL... I am generalizing , I know thats wrong to do, but it cracks me up... they are so concearned with having the best and they cant even play.... then you got the guys with no money that come in, pick up a cheap Squire Strat , plug into a cheap amp and sound awesome..... any one else notice this?

Far from it blakem. Some have simply got more money than sense. Some really think they are good and some are merely poseurs.

Obviously some good players have very nice gear but it certainly isn't the rule of thumb.
Generally most of the pros I know go out with real old beat up stuff, simply because they actually use it.
You can always tell a poseur, as his case is pristine and he unlocks it like he were picking the lock on a bank vault. The guitar is usually covered by a cloth and given a good wipe even before it's used.

I know one guy for a start. He's got an R8, a few old Teles and at least three pre CBS Strats.. The trouble is, he can't play f*ck all on them . He just talks about them. Tinkers with them and polishes them.. Let's face it, anyone with a 100 watt Marshall stack in their kitchen has got to be suspect.
He was in the audience at a gig I was on once sitting at a table holding fort about how great his guitars were.
I winked at the guys in the band and we announced over the PA he was going to get up and join us in a blues number..

You've never seen a guy move so fast.. He nearly shit himself and was out of the club in seconds flat.

[SteveGangi]

Originally Posted by Mike-t

to an actual reason to dislike those who can't play but buy expensive gear. All the other comments have been sour grapes but that actually makes some sense. Although I believe this thread was more targeting those that buy it with the idea that they will be able to play the expensive gear at some point, not those who just want to own them as investments.

My comment was aimed at those doctors and lawyers and spoiled children who only want the top of the line, can't even play the thing, and then look down their noses at the guy tearing it up on an Affinity or Epi. It's not all that hard to figure out. And WHY do they always have to "test" gear by playing the same power chord phrase over and over, badly, at full volume and distorted all to hell on a "Line 6 insane" type setting?

[coldsteal2]

the better my gear, the worst i play, but that way
it keeps you humble

[Leendrix]

Originally Posted by Leendrix

Yes. I've taught kids like that too.

And like you said, it's great that they can afford to do that. But if you can't drive but hardly at all, are you going to go buy a Ferrari and drive it at full speed?

Now that I think about it, and have read some of your guy's opinions, I don't think it's so bad after all. Maybe it's frustrating that I've been GASing for a thine line Tele Deluxe for a few years, and someone gets it before their first lesson. But at the same time, that's amazing for them, and they wont have to learn on a piece of crap!

I still stand by what I said before about a Ferrari. But now I'm more open minded about it.

Lesson learned.

Edit: River made a good point, and helped me figure out what it is I really don't like about this situation. It's the snotty/prune people that don't appreciate what they just bought, that people strive and bust their cap for. If they enjoy it and are grateful for it, then by all means let them by out the whole store.

[Murfdog]

Originally Posted by Skintaster

In the big picture though, why care?

Collectors buy all sorts of stuff they don't actually "use". There's a big difference between guitar collectors and guitar players.

I mean, some relatively well off people buy very expensive comic books... Do you think the 60 year old guy with an enormous collection of golden age Marvel comic books that's worth half a million $$$s actually READS them all?

I understand your point of view, simply because I view guitars and certain other musical devices as bridging the gap between tool and "art". I like to use my tools, but a lot of people just like to collect and maybe brag about their art collection.

Some rich guy that buys a 59 burst just to show off to his buddies, doesn't really bother me at all. Am "I" going to buy a real 59 burst anytime soon? No.

If I was, and I had the $$$, would these rich collectors be preventing me from buying one? I doubt it.

I believe my instruments are meant to be played, but I don't care if Gibson churns out R9s all day just so certain buyers can put them in a display case.

But, imagine there was never a vintage guitar craze. What if only musicians bought vintage guitars, and the collectors just never caught on. If you could buy a '59 Les Paul for under $5,000, would you? I probably would.

I get the comic book analagy, but you could read or buy a reprint of said comic and never know the difference. It's just words printed on paper. A good vintage guitar can make beautiful music, and that can never be reprinted. So, in the end it's the players that lose out on that deal.

[River]

How 'bout we throw everyone's gear in a big pile, have a guitar-off, and people get to pick and choose from the pile based on their judge's ranking. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Thing is, the winners will just pick their own gear back out of the pile, 'cept for maybe the handful of 'Bursts floating around here.

I think the whole notion of having to be worthy of one's gear is absurd, unless the one with the nice stuff is a pretentious snot. Like Skinny said, it's all in the attitude.

[kevin65]

The reality is that the only qualification someone needs to buy an expensive guitar or amp is to have the enough money to pay for them. Ya don't need a licence...

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by Mike-t

Someone that makes $200,000 and buys a $4000 guitar is spending as much of their income as someone who makes $30,000 and buys a $600 guitar. So, wouldn't it make sense that if they "should" be spending less on guitars and amps, according to several people, that the lower income bracket should as well? So, if the $200,000 income only spends $600 then the $30,000 income in turn should only spend $90 on a guitar. Fair is fair.

That does point out a difference in perspective. I have friends that make a lot more than me, so spending $4,000 on a guitar for them, would be roughly equal to me spending $400 on one. It's all about perspective.

I think it's weird when you see a guy slamming someone for buying an Epiphone, and then criticizing a "rich guy" for buying a new R9.

[Thumpalumpacus]

This thread is tailor-made for The Sentry.

[Leendrix]

Originally Posted by Skintaster

There's still plenty of affordable vintage gear that the average within reach of the average person if they save a little. Sure, most people aren't going to run out and be able to buy a 59 Les Paul, or an early 60's Strat, but there was plenty of other cool gear made during that time period that IS relatively affordable.

Twenty years ago, me and my buddies bought multiple Melody Makers made between 1959 and 1965. You could get them for $150 at pawn shops. The wealthier collectors skipped over them because they were "student guitars", but you know what? They were excellent guitars, same as Juniors and Specials which were also pretty affordable. I bought an early 60's ES-335 for $350 back then.

Things change. All of those guitars are collected now, and their prices reflect that.

People that want vintage gear but don't have 1959 burst money need to look around at all of the other cool older gear that doesn't command those prices. There's a lot out there.

That is so cool, Skin. MM's for $150? I wish I was alive then... You could walk in and get deals. Now, not so much. Like you've said, you find those deals on craigslist now. But I can't touch an SG standard set at $500 through the computer.

[kmk108]

Originally Posted by Skintaster

I think it's weird when you see a guy slamming someone for buying an Epiphone, and then criticizing a "rich guy" for buying a new R9.

I think that's because of the perception that the Epiphone can't give you what a higher priced guitar can, but the higher priced guitar can give you most of what that R9 can. If I was rich, I'd love to have a new R9 and Plexi, but I don't need it to sound how I want.

Me personally? I've liked all the Epiphone standards I've had and think that someone can get by just fine with one. I actually like the electronics in my current Epiphone and will be switching them over to my Studio before I get rid of the Epi.

[Thundergod]

Boomer. I thought this thread was all about pissing in people who just can't play.

[Skintaster]

Originally Posted by kmk108

I think that's because of the perception that the Epiphone can't give you what a higher priced guitar can, but the higher priced guitar can give you most of what that R9 can. If I was rich, I'd love to have a new R9 and Plexi, but I don't need it to sound how I want.

Me personally? I actually like the electronics in my current Epiphone and will be switching them over to my Studio before I get rid of the Epi.

Perhaps, but the R9 owner might argue that the guy playing a non Custom Shop Les paul ISN'T getting most of what an R9 can.

I've heard the same arguments from Epiphone owners in regards to regular Gibsons.

I personally think they can all be good guitars. But the cork sniffing arguments (At any level) get old.

[SteveGangi]

Originally Posted by Thundergod

Boomer. I thought this thread was all about pissing in people who just can't play.

No, it's about pretentious obnoxious people who can't play.

[kmk108]

Originally Posted by Skintaster

Perhaps, but the R9 owner might argue that the guy playing a non Custom Shop Les paul ISN'T getting most of what an R9 can.

I've heard the same arguments from Epiphone owners in regards to regular Gibsons.

I personally think they can all be good guitars. But the cork sniffing arguments (At any level) get old.

People can hear what they want to, but if you suck, you're still gonna suck when you play that R9 Unless I win the lottery, the most I'll ever spend on a guitar is Trad. Pro money, but that's just me. I've been happy with every Paul I've owned.

[180gROC]

I hadn't spent more than $200 on a guitar from the time I started playing in 1983 till 10 days before I joined this forum in 2007. Spending $1600 on a new LP was a big deal at the time. I felt like I had paid enough "cheap guitar" dues though.

Now I've got $10k in guitars sitting in my living room. I can play them fine enough, but I know they'll never pay for themselves.

[Phil47uk]

The golden rule of thumb in this game is.. Never seriously knock or laugh at another mans choice of gear. You just never know who you might bump into.

He might just have a mate who joins in the chorus on a bashed out old mic like this.

You Tube

You Tube

[AngryHatter]

Most of the guys I know can play, regardless of what gear they have.
Some are more into the mystique and cache of certain brand/boutique names.

So they have all the name gear.

I can show up with a squier and a pedal board full of danelectro stuff and be just fine.
Other guitar players routinely laugh or snicker at my setup (I used to use a pro JR exclusively for an amp) and then at a break run up asking how I get that "amazing" tone.

[MCURZON]

Originally Posted by River

How 'bout we throw everyone's gear in a big pile, have a guitar-off, and people get to pick and choose from the pile based on their judge's ranking. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Thing is, the winners will just pick their own gear back out of the pile, 'cept for maybe the handful of 'Bursts floating around here.

I think the whole notion of having to be worthy of one's gear is absurd, unless the one with the nice stuff is a pretentious snot. Like Skinny said, it's all in the attitude.

I think this is dead right and would also ask the question what do you have to be able to do to be deemed good enough for an expensive guitar?

My definition of good is being to make a noise that you like hearing and brings some joy to your life! Unless you are gigging or want to be gigging then the only assessment of your ability that counts is your own!

[Joeydego]

Got a Gorilla amp bid up to 48 bucks. This is going to SLAY my Orange and triple rec............

[Joeydego]

Stop tormenting me, cougarlife.com!

[blakem]

Does better gear make you learn to play better and motivate you? It may actually do that... I mean I guess if I think about it, if I just started playing and I had a smoking new Les Paul and a sweet amp, I would want to learn I guess.... you would feel proud holding that axe in your hands.... but I distinctly remember when I started learning to play, that it consumed me, it's all I wanted to do, and heck all I had was a cheap Epiphone strat copy with a small Peavey amp... but when I hit that first power chord with distortion, chills went down my spine.

[SteveGangi]

Originally Posted by blakem

Does better gear make you learn to play better and motivate you? It may actually do that... I mean I guess if I think about it, if I just started playing and I had a smoking new Les Paul and a sweet amp, I would want to learn I guess.... you would feel proud holding that axe in your hands.... but I distinctly remember when I started learning to play, that it consumed me, it's all I wanted to do, and heck all I had was a cheap Epiphone strat copy with a small Peavey amp... but when I hit that first power chord with distortion, chills went down my spine.

and sometimes it's just putting lipstick on a pig too.

I started around 1960 with a no name piece of shit acoustic, with a mile high action, heavy gauge Black Diamond strings, and a neck that was separating from the body. Somehow, not having an R9 (didn't exist then) or a '59 (they were still considered new and were seen as nothing all THAT special - yet) or a Marshal full stack (they didn't yet exist either) did not hold me back.

[Nicky]

I can make a $5,000 guitar sound as bad as my $300 guitar.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I've always wanted to learn as much as possible. I played for eight years before I bought my first Gibson. Getting my 'Paul didn't increase my desire to learn ... it just made practice sound better.

To my way of thinking, there are two kinds of guitars: those I can bend to my will, and those I can't. And while I love some high-dollar axes, I'm perfectly happy with my players right now.

When I ask them a question, they gotta answer me. That's the mark of a good guitar.

[SteveGangi]

Like I said, I started out with shit, at the age of about 7. I didn't get a good electric until my mid teens, and I paid cash out of my own pocket.