Anyone avoid Guitar Center unless absolutely nessecary?

[LongBeach]

I go to buy picks only. I learned many years ago not to ask for the nice stock hanging way up high.

Every once in awhile I get bored, and decide to go wander around and look at amp's.
Typically the used section. Which also brings much dissapoint. They have them so overpriced, I say the same thing when I leave. "I'm never coming back to this shit hole every again"

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Local GC (Oxnard CA) has a good guitar dept with a knowledgeable department manager. I've never had an issue with them; I've bought two guitars, a bass, and an amp there over the years. When I bought my Gibby, they called me up a couple of weeks later to make sure I was happy with my purchase.

We have a local chain, Instrumental Music, in Ventura that is great, with a better staff, but the selection just isn't as good. They get all of my business on peripherals (my pedal, all my cabling, all my strings, etc), and I've bought an amp there as well. I support them when I can, but I shop for myself, not for their bottom line.

[QuicksilverSS]

http://www.carrloft.net/

I know there aren'y many locals to this place here,but they have always done me right.
Jim is a great guy to work with and his repair guys are awesom!!

[ZoomZilla]

Well I happen to like the GC in my area. The manager is cool and I built a relationship with him over the years. Retail price, what's that. I always get a deal when I go in there. Now, would I buy a guitar hanging on the wall? No chance. I just tell Ted what I want, he orders it and I go pick it up. It's free of gummy bear and orange drink residue.

[coldsteal2]

its easy for me to avoid GC, because the closest one is 100 miles
south of here

[Joeydego]

the one by me is ok. I try not to spend too much in there. I make big purchases at Sweetwater. I may pick up strings or even a pedal here and there.

[zontar]

Since I'm up in Canada without any of them around--it's easy to avoid them...
But if I were to go down to the US sometime, and I was near one, I'd have to go it, just because...

[lespaul01]

I don't really pay attention to what anyone else does or plays.. I really could not care.. If someone only knows one song and wants to rip it.. All the power to them.. I was at that spot once. I could not care their age or talent level. Really, I just do what I need to do and move on. No sense in getting riled up over something you have no control over.

RNR

[Standard]

i actually got bored at work the other day and wrote a song about the douche bags at GC gimme a bit and let me borrow a camera and i will make youtube gold.

[Leendrix]

I'm going to my GC today.

[alligatorbling]

i think its fun to go in any music store, i dont discriminate.

[NeoConMan]

I can tell a dozen AWFUL GUITAR CENTER stories of my own.
Probably five times that many that I had first-hand knowledge of.

Last guitar I bought from them was 2003 - and it was a fxcking nightmare.
Why?
Because I held them to their word - evidently that was a new thing for them...

I've TRIED to buy half a dozen guitars from them since then - they simply wouldn't let me.

(When you've told somebody that you'll take the price, have the cash in your pocket, ready to go, and they STILL fxck up the deal?)

And the in-store credit that will DESTROY your credit and triple the cost of your purchase?

The GUITAR CENTER warranty you can buy - on a Gibson with a lifetime warranty?

GTFO.

I still grab strings, accessories, odds & ends now and then.
I know several of the guys in the four GUITAR CENTER stores in Phoenix.

But buying a new guitar from them grows less likely over time.




This story (confirmed Saturday by an "insider" I know) gives me hope;

Guitar Center Asks To Defer Interest Payments

GUITAR CENTER HAS approached lenders to extend the maturities of its $650
million secured debt by 2.5 years to April 2017. As an inducement, the
retailer has agreed to a 1.5% increase in the interest rate to 500 basis points
over Libor (London Interbank Offered Rate). The amended effective borrowing
rate would be approximately 9.9%. The company has also asked to defer 50%
of the interest payments on another $622 million term loan for 18 months.

According to Moody's Investors Services, this combination of amendments
and extensions "provide default avoidance." A Moody's report
concluded, "Ratings continue to reflect Guitar Center's unsustainable capital
structure over the long term at current levels of operating performance,
given the sizable level of operating income growth needed to bring leveraged
and interest coverage to more reasonable levels." A Moody's analyst
concluded that growth in sales, comparable store sales, and profits will not
be sufficient to trim the company's approximately $1.6 billion debt load to a
more manageable level. However, they conclude, "Guitar Center's liquidity is,
and is expected to remain, good," given that there are no sizable debt
payments due until April 2013.

Separately, Moody's noted that with annual revenues of $2 billion, Guitar
Center's current earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and
amortization (EBITDA), estimated at $170 million, is insufficient to cover its
interest burden, and that "operating performance will only modestly improve."


Music Trades – May 2011 : Guitar Center Works To Delay Debt Repayments


Problem is, if they fail it could possibly take Fender and Gibson down with them.
What do you do if you're Henry J. and GUITAR CENTER calls you up saying some sh!t like this;

"Hey man, um... ya know all that money we owe you? Do you really need it right now?"

And they've already deferred their debt how many times....?

Bad news, eh?

.

[LIBERTYMACHINE]

In my regular travel paths, I've got 4 GC's to choose from and each one is a different place to deal with altogether. I just go there for strings and sh1t.
I do spend a good bit of time on the GC website checking out their "used gear" section,though.

I still prefer to buy guitars used....always have and always will.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by NeoConMan

I can tell a dozen AWFUL GUITAR CENTER stories of my own. ....

Guitar Center Asks To Defer Interest Payments

GUITAR CENTER HAS approached lenders to extend the maturities of its $650
million secured debt by 2.5 years to April 2017. As an inducement, the
retailer has agreed to a 1.5% increase in the interest rate to 500 basis points
over Libor (London Interbank Offered Rate). The amended effective borrowing
rate would be approximately 9.9%. The company has also asked to defer 50%
of the interest payments on another $622 million term loan for 18 months.

According to Moody's Investors Services, this combination of amendments
and extensions "provide default avoidance." A Moody's report
concluded, "Ratings continue to reflect Guitar Center's unsustainable capital
structure over the long term at current levels of operating performance,
given the sizable level of operating income growth needed to bring leveraged
and interest coverage to more reasonable levels." A Moody's analyst
concluded that growth in sales, comparable store sales, and profits will not
be sufficient to trim the company's approximately $1.6 billion debt load to a
more manageable level. However, they conclude, "Guitar Center's liquidity is,
and is expected to remain, good," given that there are no sizable debt
payments due until April 2013.

Separately, Moody's noted that with annual revenues of $2 billion, Guitar
Center's current earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and
amortization (EBITDA), estimated at $170 million, is insufficient to cover its
interest burden, and that "operating performance will only modestly improve."


Music Trades – May 2011 : Guitar Center Works To Delay Debt Repayments

I've thought for the last ten years that they were oversaturating some markets. Let the retrenchment begin.

I do hope they keep the Oxnard store open, though. The only bad stories I have about it are from the two times I was stupid enough to go in on a Saturday, and that was the kids, not the staff.

[NeoConMan]

Along those same lines, here's an article I saw recently.

Funny how everybody is all in a tizzie about Big Business, Wall Street, etc.
We have a government deciding certain preferred companies are "too big to fail."
All the while, our government is doing its dead-level best to fxcking implode and take the world with it...

Meanwhile, back in the music biz where Epiphone is "just as good"...
Buying Chinese sh!t is cool if you really, really want it...
And people too smart/cool to shop at Wal-Mart just fxcking love GUITAR CENTER...



It's an Op-Ed piece, but there are some very telling points underlined within;



Made In China: American guitar

Posted in Made in China, Rock 'n' Roll at 4:33 pm by George Smith

Continuing with the posts on how US electric guitar manufacturers
outsourced their production for middle class pieces for the sake of
concentrating on custom business for the non-playing wealthy, I have a few
items of interest.

The first dates from a year before the economic crash. At the time you could
still read stories on what a jolly good business it was to be able to buy
Chinese-made US branded guitars displayed in cardboard boxes at Target,
Wal-Mart and BestBuy.

From the Newhouse News Service, in 2007:
“Rock has gotten so mainstream that you see or hear guitars in just about
every movie and commercial,” says Dana Clarke, manager of Guitar Center in
North Olmsted, Ohio. “Combine that with guitars being made overseas, cheaply,
and it’s no surprise you see them everywhere.”

Everywhere, as in the aisles of Target, Wal-Mart, even Costco. They come
packaged as “rock kits.” In brown boxes. Stacked up like stairways to heaven.

And they’re cheap.

The outsourcing of production to Mexico, China and South Korea has dropped
electric-guitar prices to levels that have made them competitive with
electronic toys and gadgets.

One penny shy of $70 for an ax at Target. Less than $87 for a “guitar pack,”
amp included, at Wal-Mart.

At the same time, prices skyrocketed for domestically-made guitars, made for
the collector crowd:
[The Guitar Center man] has witnessed an explosion in price appreciation,
even for unloved guitars that would hang on the wall for months.

“In the 1980s and ’90s, guitars became a collectible with a Blue Book value,” he says.

Guitar Center, the article went on to state, “pioneered the guitar-for-masses concept.”

Fender’s new CEO, Larry Thomas, was formerly chairman of Guitar Center.

And while things were heady in 2007, Guitar Center is now stuck in the
doldrums. When the middle class was beggared by the economic crash, GC suffered.

“Moody’s downgrades Guitar Center debt,” reads a news story from November 12:
Moody’s Investors Service has downgraded private equity-backed Guitar
Center Holdings Inc., parent of Guitar Center, to Caa2, from Caa1, citing
increased interest expenses when it begins paying down its senior unsecured
pay-in-kind notes starting in April 2011. Until last month the business, owned
by Boston buyout firm Bain Capital LLC, has deferred paying cash interest on
its $375 million senior notes held at the holding company level. Moody’s said
Friday, Nov. 12, that, while sales have improved, its earnings are not
expected to recover sufficiently during 2011 to fully cover its interest
expense through internally generated cash flow. The agency said the
Westlake Village, Calif.-based music store chain, the largest in the
U.S., “could voluntarily pursue a debt restructuring or an amendment to its
debt facilities” at terms it would deem to be equivalent to a default.

Caa2 means holdings are of “poor standing.” Guitar Center, in other words, is
a substantially risky business not far away from falling into default.

Fender, for its part, has had a great deal of trouble controlling who uses its
designs. It’s a consequence of other companies fabricating them uncontested
and the company’s own mass outsourcing to China. The temptation to
capitalize on the brand name and look is very strong.

Paradoxically, in a news item from the Arizona Republic in 2009 (Fender is
based in Scottsdale), one reads:
Fender filed for the trademarks as part of its global strategy to fight
counterfeiters and protect its intellectual property, he said. The problem has
gotten worse as copycats have guitars made in China, ship them to
warehouses in the United States and sell them over the Internet …

Over the years, again prior to the current troubles, domestic guitar
production as investment pieces for the wealthy was generally hailed.

For example, this from 2003, on a guitar show:
Things took off in the late 1980s and early 1990s as Boomers with increasing
disposable income started buying the axes preferred by their musical heroes.
Most of those were built in the 1950s and 1960s, the first two decades for
mass-marketed electrics. Suddenly, certain models and years, mostly Gibsons
and Fenders, started commanding seriously crazy cash — $10,000-$40,000.

And this news piece from 2006 on Gibson’s peddling of premium models to the
stupid rich in Japan is also revealing:
Gibson makes a range of guitars solely for the Japanese market, including
rocker Tak Matsumoto’s signature Les Paul in such special guitar shades as
canary yellow.

“It is so cool,” says Yuki Yamaguchi, a 19-year-old student who bought a
$5,400 Tak Matsumoto Gibson on three-month credit. “I open the case and
look at in and go: ‘It is so cool.’”

Amateur musicians such as Yamaguchi, who acknowledges he hardly has time
to play his guitar and spends more time admiring it, may be just buying a dream.

But they make for serious business.

“Some of these consumers own five, 10, 20 guitars because they’re
collecting … They’re collecting for the love of collecting,” a Gibson sales exec
told the newspaper reporter.

“The Japan-only Les Paul with the beat-up look costs about $3,000 …” added the piece.

Ironically, flooding in Tennessee stalled Gibson’s domestic production for a
couple months earlier this year.

The Nashville newspaper, The Tennessean, reported on the matter:
Widespread flooding two weeks ago pushed many of the city’s rivers and
streams well beyond their banks, including Mill Creek, which flows just behind
Gibson USA’s sprawling factory complex near Nashville International Airport.

The plant churns out 2,500 guitars a day. It is one of several mass
production facilities the company operates around the globe – including in
Memphis; Bozeman, Mont.; and at least five factories in China.

Gibson guitars manufactured in the flooded plant cost between $700 and
$3000. Paradoxically, the custom shop — which produces Gibson’s really
idiotically priced pieces for the plutonomy or Nashville recording artist with a
label deal — was not impacted.

Dick Destiny » Made In China: American guitar

.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm glad guitars are cheap, hopefully it'll keep the thing alive, but it kills me that we're giving money to a country like China.

[Luka_Luka!]

I go there only when some new guitar series come out and I just like, totally have to see it in person.

[kingedb]

I really do not boycott any stores. Especially ones that sell guitars or guitar related items. If you manage your expectation properly you'll be fine. As in, have none!!

I can't tell you the last time I was in a GC though. I have no reason to shop there. Where I used to live there was a Sam Ash almost next store. It was great! Now that I moved there are a couple of mom and pop places, but my gear account has been dry. I'm not one to go to a guitar shop without money or to window shop. It not only tortures me, but more than likely I'll leave with something I should have never bought.

[TeleDog]

GC is like any other store. I don't like their stupidity and the fact there's a lot of punks working there with so much attitude I wonder how they manage to walk to work without tipping over with that huge head....

But if it's about buying a set of strings for $3, sure, I'm there... Pick them up, pay, out the door I go... No dealing with their "helpful staff"...

[Saiko]

Originally Posted by LongBeach

I go to buy picks only. I learned many years ago not to ask for the nice stock hanging way up high.

Every once in awhile I get bored, and decide to go wander around and look at amp's.
Typically the used section. Which also brings much dissapoint. They have them so overpriced, I say the same thing when I leave. "I'm never coming back to this shit hole every again"

I must be lucky as my local GC prices their used gear to sell, to the point that they check out E-Bay and Craigslist to make sure they aren't overcharging. Guess that must be management at the store level.

[b-squared]

The guys at my local GC know me, and know I can play, so they'll frequently hand me the 'behind the counter' guitars to play.

Would I buy an instrument there? Most likely not. Several of the dealers here can easily beat their prices, and I know the instrument will be set up and shipped correctly. I don't normally buy new Gibsons anyway--I've never owned a new one....ever.

Would I buy anything there? Picks, strings, and accessories--if they are on sale. --and that is for convenience only...everything is cheaper online somewhere.

BB

[Rich]

Never been to one but that's simply because there isn't one nearby. We have a couple of local places that carry nice inventory so I've never felt the need to make a longer trip to a GC.

[Thundergod]

I buy lots of stuff from them when I visit the US... with their offers and coupons there's no beating their prices. I don't buy guitars from them tho... but I buy pedals, amps, cables, picks, and everything else (got a new keyboard from them a month ago, and some pedals).

I prefer them to SamAsh, and don't really know any small store that carries a little of everything like they do so it's the only place I visit when in the US.

[LongBeach]

Who instructed you that visiting the US was OK by all of us?

[LongBeach]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

The Local GC (Oxnard CA) has a good guitar dept with a knowledgeable department manager. I've never had an issue with them; I've bought two guitars, a bass, and an amp there over the years. When I bought my Gibby, they called me up a couple of weeks later to make sure I was happy with my purchase.

We have a local chain, Instrumental Music, in Ventura that is great, with a better staff, but the selection just isn't as good. They get all of my business on peripherals (my pedal, all my cabling, all my strings, etc), and I've bought an amp there as well. I support them when I can, but I shop for myself, not for their bottom line.

The one in Fountain Valley is OK by me.
Cerritos, not so much.

[GitFiddle]

I can't help myself but.... its "necessary"

[LiveOak]

It's all in the timing for me. The GC near where I work is huge and if I go during my lunch hour on weekdays when school is in session, I practically have the joint to myself and I try out lot's of guitars and amps. My main gripe is the sorry shape of most of the floor models, but that is just the way it is.

[MoJoe]

The GC in my town is ok with me.

They always price match the prices I've found on the net, and never ask any questions when I return gear that I may have took home to try out and see if I like it.

However, I don't let them work on my guitars, and I don't depend on them to know anything about guitars/gear.

Some of them are a bit green and don't research the items they sell.

I find myself knowing more about their products then they do a majority of the time.

[hobosunited247]

Originally Posted by GitFiddle

I can't help myself but.... its "necessary"

Haha I KNEW I misspelled it. Thanks anyway.

[Texas Joe]

I go to GC just to look around or buy some strings. GC was completely different when they were much smaller. I have noticed that each store is hit or miss regarding the staff knowing what they are talking about. I went to one the other day to buy a box of strings and got to talking with a few of the guys and they really knew their stuff and were enthusiastic about it.

As far as the kids going in there and playing loud and not so good ... ... it is what it is.

P.S. Their parts are always out of stock. Easier and cheaper to order online.