Truss rod rattles on 55 Junior

[Liam]

Well I've finally worked out why they have a condom on the reissues. Doesn't do it all the time, and only when you hit the strings quite hard, but I appear to have a bit of truss rod rattle on my 55 Junior.

Truss rod works absolutely fine, and is not loose. The rattles generally appear when I play the top E string open and B string on first fret at the same time. Not super loud, more of a buzz than a rattle I guess, but a bit annoying if I'm playing the guitar without an amp (the Junior is as loud as some acoustic guitars!)

Anyone come across this before? Is there a fix for it, that doesn't involve TR removal, or do I just live with it?

Liam

[Sgt.Pepper]

Are you absolutely sure it's the rod? With the notes you mention, I'd be amazed. It could be a sympathetic vibration with something else on the guitar like a loose strap button or tuner, etc....

[Liam]

Good call, but already checked strap buttons and tuners. Have been considering taking the pickup out to see if anything's loose, but whatever it is sounds like it's under the third to fifth frets. Annoyingly, it's quite subtle, so hard to find. My money is still on truss rod.

[jeggz]

funny...we both got refrets and we both got strange rattles

[Rich H]

Originally Posted by Liam

Good call, but already checked strap buttons and tuners. Have been considering taking the pickup out to see if anything's loose, but whatever it is sounds like it's under the third to fifth frets. Annoyingly, it's quite subtle, so hard to find. My money is still on truss rod.

Hi Liam, I'd be happy to check it out for you. You've got my number :-)

[Sgt.Pepper]

That's an offer you can't refuse.

By the way, you didn't mention the refret. On Gibsons, the fret slots are deeper in the middle and the frets were originally glued with either shellac or liquid animal glue depending on the age of the instrument. sometimes a bit of dried up glue can rattle in the fret slot! The answer is to brush a little liquid animal glue (Titebond make a good one) well thinned with water around and on the ends of the suspect fret and push up and down on the fret till you don't see any bubbles then relevel the frets if needed. I really don't think it's the truss rod. In any case, you can always lightly tap the back of the neck with a knuckle to see if the truss rod rattles. If by any chance it ends up being the rod at fault, it's still an easy fix with no need to remove the rod. Are you sure it's not the strings rattling of the frets?

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Pepper

That's an offer you can't refuse.

By the way, you didn't mention the refret. On Gibsons, the fret slots are deeper in the middle and the frets were originally glued with either shellac or liquid animal glue depending on the age of the instrument. sometimes a bit of dried up glue can rattle in the fret slot! The answer is to brush a little liquid animal glue (Titebond make a good one) well thinned with water around and on the ends of the suspect fret and push up and down on the fret till you don't see any bubbles then relevel the frets if needed. I really don't think it's the truss rod. In any case, you can always lightly tap the back of the neck with a knuckle to see if the truss rod rattles. If by any chance it ends up being the rod at fault, it's still an easy fix with no need to remove the rod. Are you sure it's not the strings rattling of the frets?

+1

[pegpollitt]

My husband says you have a high fret.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by pegpollitt

My husband says you have a high fret.

My wife thinks Sgt P , Rich and Kim know their stuff.

[pegpollitt]

I'm sure they do. Sorry. Just a suggestion from my husband, who also knows his
stuff. If it means anything he says it could also be a worn nut. Kim, I enjoyed the
clip of you playing, you are great.

[Liam]

My husband says you have a high fret.

Sorry, no offense, but I'd know if it was a high fret or a worn nut. Been messing with guitars for a little while now, so can spot the easy stuff.

Originally Posted by single cut 54

My wife thinks Sgt P , Rich and Kim know their stuff.

Originally Posted by Sgt Pepper

In any case, you can always lightly tap the back of the neck with a knuckle to see if the truss rod rattles. If by any chance it ends up being the rod at fault, it's still an easy fix with no need to remove the rod.

Sgt Pepper, you're right on the money here; tapping the neck with my knuckles I can hear the truss rod hitting the inside of its cavity, right behind the third fret. Any words of wisdom on the way to sort this out?

Originally Posted by Rich H

Hi Liam, I'd be happy to check it out for you. You've got my number :-)

I was wondering if that was your new login from previous posts. Yep, got your number, and will be arranging for an insurance valuation with you over the next couple of weeks. If it's not fixed by then I'd be very grateful if you could cast your eye over it.

Thanks all!

Liam

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by pegpollitt

I'm sure they do. Sorry. Just a suggestion from my husband, who also knows his
stuff. If it means anything he says it could also be a worn nut.

Hey Peg ,I should apologise for the glib remark. Sorry.

[pegpollitt]

That's OK.

[Sgt.Pepper]

Firstly, I'd ask several people familiar with vintage guitars for a second and third etc... opinion before doing anything. If after this, you're still sure it's the rod, lightly tap the back of the neck to find exactly the problem spot, then there's a couple of ways forward. Either remove an inlay or a fret and using a small drill bit carefully drill just to the rod under the inlay or fret. Then you can either tap a cocktail stick into the hole to apply pressure to the rod, or use a syringe (from your friendly doctor or vet) to squirt a little silicone into the hole, then fill the hole with a shaved down cocktail stick. You need a 2mm hole for the cocktail stick, but a much smaller hole for the syringe method. With the cocktail stick, it can also be very easy to put too much glue on and end up with the stick stuck halfway into the hole, so you have to drill it out again! Before doing any drilling, use a straight edge to mark the location of the rod on the face of the fingerboard using the ends where you can see the fillet as a guide. They're not always on centre!!

Or,
you could take it to Singlecut54 who is an expert repairer because just getting a dot or a fret out cleanly can be harder than it seems.

[BCRGreg]

Adding a little tiny bit of torque to the TR nut doesn't stop it?

[Sgt.Pepper]

just another thought. I recently had a 50's Les Paul to repair where it had been refretted etc... and was still buzzing. The owner thought it was the rod, but turned out to be that the fretboard was lifting slightly from the neck.

[Liam]

If I can get it to Brian Eastwood this week, I'd like him to do the work, as he's looked after me very well over the last year or so - but one of these days single cut 54 will have a small enough waiting list that I'll pop down with some work for him... Might be a long wait for that day!

Liam

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by Liam

If I can get it to Brian Eastwood this week, I'd like him to do the work, as he's looked after me very well over the last year or so - but one of these days single cut 54 will have a small enough waiting list that I'll pop down with some work for him... Might be a long wait for that day!

Liam

Hey Liam, Brian is as good as it gets,but I'd also take up the offer from Rich
for a second opinion, if you can get to him easily. Good luck.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

I'd also take up the offer from Rich
for a second opinion, if you can get to him easily. Good luck.

Rich helped me out a LOT when I was shopping for a Junior, and saved me an absolute fortune by explaining the ins and outs of 50s Juniors, and how to minimise customs charges on importing collectable guitars. Nothing in it for him, just a top bloke, and I will be going to see him before long.

Waiting for a chat with Mr Eastwood at the moment, going to have to make a decision on whether I need a second opinion after that. I really want the guitar available for a gig on October 18 (rare opportunity to use it through a cranked up Marshall 1/2 stack in a big room) so time is of the essence, but then I want a nice job done as well. We'll see...

[Sgt.Pepper]

Brian Eastwood's a top repairer and has been making guitars almost since your Junior was new (although he doesn't look old enough), so there'll be no trouble there. I don't think you'd find anyone with a bad word to say about him. Sounds like you're being looked after very well all round.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Pepper

Brian Eastwood's a top repairer and has been making guitars almost since your Junior was new

For years I had all my guitar repairs done by Tom Mates, totally amazing repairer and builder, but then I moved north...

Brian's become a mate since he did a refret on an LP Standard for me about a year back...anyone that works on guitars but looks like he's out of The Faces circa 1972 is OK by me! (The refret was awesome too....)

He shaved the neck of my R9 Hysteric to replicate a '59 neck I particularly liked, changed the inlays to NOS mother of toilet seat, and then finished it in nitro to feel like it was really old. (The faked inlay shrinkage is amazingly accurate).

Also, he did the refret on my Junior - and aged a set of replacement Klusons so I could hide the shrivelled ones for the next owner after I die.

And that's aside from all the Fender work he has done for me...

I would love to divulge some of the creations I've seen when I've been round there (Custom Shops around the world eat your hearts out, you're not in his league), but would also hate to trigger any litigation.

He has been commisioned to build me a guitar over the tail end of this year, and I'm not expecting to be disappointed. I can't say what it will be (litigation again) but it's a "backup" for a guitar I already own. And I mean a backup, I won't sell it on in a million years....

(In case you haven't guessed, I've become a big fan of Brian Eastwood!)

Liam